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Proposal: Value of San Jose 2025 1st

I'm pretty sure Grier is only open to trading our 1st if we lose the lottery and pick 2nd or 3rd. Even then it'd have to be a heavy overpayment.
 
He also said those big trade comps not for the draft picks, but for magnitude and specifically called out wanting a "young established player." I don't even think he'd entertain a trade for 1OA unless it came with an unprotected 2026, a 2025 first rounder in the top 10, and probably also a young developing stud D... Price for 2/3 might be the same minus the 2026.

It just doesn't feel like there's a market, especially for 1OA, but we'll see.
 
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SML2 said:
#1OA has only b
een traded 5 times and it has never been a win for the team that traded it. Are you happy you took Kozlov instead of Vinny Lecavalier?
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I know it was after the draft, but Lindros to Philly might be the model SJ want to follow, getting multiple mature assets to accelerate their rebuild. It worked out well for the Nordiques because of Forsberg, but otherwise it could easily just be multiple solid players to fill gaps in SJ's lineup.
Quebec got an offensive defenseman, a starting goalie, a young #2 line player and a couple of first rounders out of it.

A top 3 pick might not be worth all of that, but it might fill a couple a key needs for SJ.
 
Pens 9 + NYR 11 + late 2nd would be available without much heartburn, and I'd send that for Misa at 2OA.
 
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Soundgarden said:
For shits and giggles Filip Forsberg + Vegas's 1st ?

Nashville blows it up, leaves the draft with Schaefer, Misa/Hagens and local boy Fiddler.
Forsberg is paired with Celebrini.
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That's absolutely terrible value for a top-3 pick and you know it. Sharks need veteran players but not at that cost. Late 1st is whatever, they already have one in 2025 (DAL) and 2026 (EDM).
 
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pth2 said:
I know it was after the draft, but Lindros to Philly might be the model SJ want to follow, getting multiple mature assets to accelerate their rebuild. It worked out well for the Nordiques because of Forsberg, but otherwise it could easily just be multiple solid players to fill gaps in SJ's lineup.
Quebec got an offensive defenseman, a starting goalie, a young #2 line player and a couple of first rounders out of it.

A top 3 pick might not be worth all of that, but it might fill a couple a key needs for SJ.
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I haven't been following the draft as close as I used to, but there hasn't beem a legit Lindros level prospect in a long time.
 
SML2 said:
Are you happy you took Kozlov instead of Vinny Lecavalier?
Click to expand...

Incorrect. They are connected via trades but Kozlov was drafted in 93 and Lecavalier in 98.

It's much worse. The Sharks had traded down that year from 2OA with the Whalers to get their guy in Kozlov with 6OA. The Whalers just took some guy named Chris Pronger with 2OA.
 
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SML2 said:
I haven't been following the draft as close as I used to, but there hasn't beem a legit Lindros level prospect in a long time.
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I just meant, 1st OA for a package of lesser assets, none super high end, but all pretty good, accelerating the rebuild in SJ.

Imagine Ullmark, Matheson (if he had a longer contract) and a younger (but proven) Danault as well as a mid first or two.
 
Patty Ice said:
Incorrect. They are connected via trades but Kozlov was drafted in 93 and Lecavalier in 98.

It's much worse. The Sharks had traded down that year from 2OA with the Whalers to get their guy in Kozlov with 6OA. The Whalers just took some guy named Chris Pronger with 2OA.
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An interesting layer to the onion that I only learned about a few years back was that Quebec made a last minute offer of an unsigned Peter Forsberg for the Pronger pick. After the draft, Dean Lombardi vented to press about how unprofessional Quebec was during the negotiations; We were only a year removed from them trading Lindros twice, so they didn't have the best reputation. When Quebec's initial offers (centered around Mike Ricci + 10th overall) were rejected, Quebec's owner tried to negotiate directly with San Jose's owner which pissed off Lombardi.

Lombardi more or less implied he would have traded the pick contingent on Forsberg signing. But since Quebec waited until the morning of the draft, they would have virtually no time to talk to Forsberg's agent. The problem was in that CBA, unsigned European draft picks would eventually be offer sheet eligible; Forsberg and Markus Naslund were about to get those rights a week after the 1993 Draft.

In the summer of 1992, Teemu Selanne signed an offer sheet (3 years x 400K plus a 1.5 mil signing bonus) with Calgary that Winnipeg begrudgingly matched. There were rumors that teams might be willing to offer Forsberg a 4+ mil signing bonus or that Forsberg's agent was eyeing the record rookie contract that Alexandre Daigle was about to sign (5 years, 12.25 mil).

The odd thing was that a team had the right to match the offer sheet but in this case they got no compensation if they chose not to. Vancouver matching an offer sheet on Mattias Ohlund was the only other instance I can remember.

San Jose decided not to take the chance and opted for the more mundane trade down with Hartford. But it is fun to think in a parallel universe where Quebec isn't so chaotic, there might have been a Peter Forsberg for Chris Pronger trade.
 
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that scenario would have been better for the SJ Sharks vs getting V. Kozlov. QC/Col, basically swapping Forsberg for Pronger. 1 HOF C for 1 HOF D.

Hartford would go from Pronger to any of Kozlov, Arnott, Sundstrom, Harvey who were on the board.
 
StreetHawk said:
that scenario would have been better for the SJ Sharks vs getting V. Kozlov. QC/Col, basically swapping Forsberg for Pronger. 1 HOF C for 1 HOF D.

Hartford would go from Pronger to any of Kozlov, Arnott, Sundstrom, Harvey who were on the board.
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Ironically Lombardi would kinda swap Kozlov for Ricci in 1997. Kozlov eventually netted Brad Stuart and Jonathan Cheechoo, then Stuart helped get Joe Thornton so it eventually turned out alright for them.

If I recall correctly, Hartford would have (begrudgingly) taken Kozlov at #6. They had acquired Sergei Makarov a few days before the draft to have a 'mentor' in place for Kozlov. San Jose had unsuccessfully offer sheeted Makarov the previous summer, so Whalers GM Brian Burke figured he could also potentially dangle Makarov in the pursuit of Pronger.

An interesting 'what if' for me in that scenario is whether Quebec keeps Mats Sundin if they've already dealt Forsberg.

And then what becomes of Brendan Shanahan? St. Louis traded him in summer of 1995 for Pronger. I think the rumored runner up offer was something with the Rangers centered around Alexei Kovalev.
 
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Brodeur said:
Ironically Lombardi would kinda swap Kozlov for Ricci in 1997. Kozlov eventually netted Brad Stuart and Jonathan Cheechoo, then Stuart helped get Joe Thornton so it eventually turned out alright for them.

If I recall correctly, Hartford would have (begrudgingly) taken Kozlov at #6. They had acquired Sergei Makarov a few days before the draft to have a 'mentor' in place for Kozlov. San Jose had unsuccessfully offer sheeted Makarov the previous summer, so Whalers GM Brian Burke figured he could also potentially dangle Makarov in the pursuit of Pronger.

An interesting 'what if' for me in that scenario is whether Quebec keeps Mats Sundin if they've already dealt Forsberg.

And then what becomes of Brendan Shanahan? St. Louis traded him in summer of 1995 for Pronger. I think the rumored runner up offer was something with the Rangers centered around Alexei Kovalev.
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Sundin got moved mainly because QC would have 3 elite C. So, they moved him for the grit/leadership of Wendall Clark. Now, if they have both Sakic and Sundin at C with Pronger on D, they probably end up keeping Sundin.

I don't think there was any issue between Shanny and the Blues. But, the Blues really liked Pronger, so were more than happy to move Shanny who was 6 years older to get him.

Trickle down effect, impacts the likes of Primeau, Brind'Amour, etc.
 
Chainshot said:
So if it's for 2OA, would 7OA and Byram at least be conversational?
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There has been a lot of discussion on Sharks HFB about Byram. I think most of us would probably say that doesn't work for 2OA and some might love it for 3OA. Opinions on Byram differ.

I personally would probably want a little more for 2OA but might take it for 3OA.
 
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