Raptors Discussion: v97 Raptor's 2023-2024 Season complete - 19th and 31st overall picks

[Dr.Funk]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811133541549326562

 

[canucksfan]

Raptors young guys playing well.

 

[canucksfan]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1812295122933137824

 

[canucksfan]

Like Carlsen and Shead in the first two games.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

 

[canucksfan]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1813293651969311045

 

[trellaine201]

Wasn’t he worthy of a trade before last years playoffs? Could have got something back?

 

[The Nemesis]

Wasn’t he worthy of a trade before last years playoffs? Could have got something back?

Maybe? Basketball trades are weird sometimes. They're often either absolute heists (you trade your disgruntled superstar who only wants to go to one team but get back 5 1st round picks and an excellent young roster player) or total nothing burgers (you trade a decent rotation guy for a trade exception, an old dude who sits on the end of the other team's bench but makes $10m a season, a 32 year old player in europe who's never entertained coming to the NBA, and a conditional second round pick that only vests if the guy you traded wins playoff MVP and averages 50 points per game for the rest of the season)

Sure they could've gotten back some B or C tier borderline prospect and a late 1st or 2nd round pick, but they may have decided that the salary flexibility and cap space/luxury tax recovery of being able to renounce his bird rights and let him sign elsewhere were more valuable than whatever end-of-bench filler or longshot lottery tickets were being offered.

Just as a sort-of-partial-comparable, at the deadline last season the Pacers traded Buddy Hield to Philadelphia in a 3-team trade that netted Indiana Furkan Korkmaz, Doug McDermott, and 3 2nd round picks. Korkmaz is gone and McDermott is also an UFA but the Pacers appear to still have his bird rights so they haven't fully cut ties with him yet.

Basically a solid rotational shooter like Hield fetched salary ballast that the Pacers felt fine cutting bait on by year's end and a trio of 2nds which are generally worth nearly nothing from an NBA draft standpoint.

Would the Raptors have been better off taking on some team's bad contracts last season to make up the $18.5m value of Trent? Maybe, we don't know for sure who was out there as a realistic offer. But I'm OK saying it's not a sure thing.

 

[thewave]

Maybe? Basketball trades are weird sometimes. They're often either absolute heists (you trade your disgruntled superstar who only wants to go to one team but get back 5 1st round picks and an excellent young roster player) or total nothing burgers (you trade a decent rotation guy for a trade exception, an old dude who sits on the end of the other team's bench but makes $10m a season, a 32 year old player in europe who's never entertained coming to the NBA, and a conditional second round pick that only vests if the guy you traded wins playoff MVP and averages 50 points per game for the rest of the season)

Sure they could've gotten back some B or C tier borderline prospect and a late 1st or 2nd round pick, but they may have decided that the salary flexibility and cap space/luxury tax recovery of being able to renounce his bird rights and let him sign elsewhere were more valuable than whatever end-of-bench filler or longshot lottery tickets were being offered.

Just as a sort-of-partial-comparable, at the deadline last season the Pacers traded Buddy Hield to Philadelphia in a 3-team trade that netted Indiana Furkan Korkmaz, Doug McDermott, and 3 2nd round picks. Korkmaz is gone and McDermott is also an UFA but the Pacers appear to still have his bird rights so they haven't fully cut ties with him yet.

Basically a solid rotational shooter like Hield fetched salary ballast that the Pacers felt fine cutting bait on by year's end and a trio of 2nds which are generally worth nearly nothing from an NBA draft standpoint.

Would the Raptors have been better off taking on some team's bad contracts last season to make up the $18.5m value of Trent? Maybe, we don't know for sure who was out there as a realistic offer. But I'm OK saying it's not a sure thing.

Masai has been below average since winning. Lot of missed opportunities over evaluations etc. Not impressive at all. Kawhi will be the capstone on his managerial career and I doubt he gets another championship.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

Masai has been below average since winning. Lot of missed opportunities over evaluations etc. Not impressive at all. Kawhi will be the capstone on his managerial career and I doubt he gets another championship.

Must be nice to have a crystal ball. While you're at it can you tell us next week's lottery numbers?

 

[Bjindaho]

One thing that concerns me at this point is that Raptors clearly have 4 starters.

IQ - Barrett - Barnes - Poetl is a great base BUT

Their 5th guy right now is either Mitchell (2 PG), Olynyk (2 C), Brown (was awful last year), or a younger player (better fit but raw). If Toronto and Vezenkov come to some sort of agreement where he comes to camp and we go from there, the 5th starters job looks like it is his to lose.

In a perfect world, Toronto would have gotten their hands on someone to play that spot before now (like Jalen Smith).

 

[canucksfan]

Jamal Shead is impressive to watch.

 

[Ale Brew]

One thing that concerns me at this point is that Raptors clearly have 4 starters.

IQ - Barrett - Barnes - Poetl is a great base BUT

Their 5th guy right now is either Mitchell (2 PG), Olynyk (2 C), Brown (was awful last year), or a younger player (better fit but raw). If Toronto and Vezenkov come to some sort of agreement where he comes to camp and we go from there, the 5th starters job looks like it is his to lose.

In a perfect world, Toronto would have gotten their hands on someone to play that spot before now (like Jalen Smith).

Pretty sure Dick is the 5th starter this year if things go right. He provides spacing with his shooting and Scottie slides to the 4.

Down the road Walters could be the 2, but that’s probably not this year.

They have a solid base, but are missing that one stud to take the last minute shot. Someone who can create his own shot late in the clock. If they struggle this year they hopefully add that guy in next year’s draft and we’re ready to grow and start competing.

 

[Bjindaho]

Pretty sure Dick is the 5th starter this year if things go right. He provides spacing with his shooting and Scottie slides to the 4.

Down the road Walters could be the 2, but that’s probably not this year.

They have a solid base, but are missing that one stud to take the last minute shot. Someone who can create his own shot late in the clock. If they struggle this year they hopefully add that guy in next year’s draft and we’re ready to grow and start competing.

According to Webster, Agbaji is the frontrunner for 5th starter

 

[Ale Brew]

According to Webster, Agbaji is the frontrunner for 5th starter

Ugh…the guy can’t even score in Summer League.

We don’t need a high volume scorer in that spot, but we need someone to help space the floor. Hopefully they are just trying not to put too much pressure on Dick. He should definitely be given an opportunity.

 

[LaPlante94]

Ugh…the guy can’t even score in Summer League.

We don’t need a high volume scorer in that spot, but we need someone to help space the floor. Hopefully they are just trying not to put too much pressure on Dick. He should definitely be given an opportunity.

I'm sure Dick will be there. Idk if it'll be right away but maybe they want him coming off the bench for a bit longer to help the bench be a bigger threat. He looked pretty damn good the 2nd half of the season last year so I'm sure they just don't want to rush him since we aren't exactly making a push for a championship atm. Probably want Dick to get a bit better on the defensive side before pushing into a starting role.

 

[GoonieFace]

Ugh…the guy can’t even score in Summer League.

We don’t need a high volume scorer in that spot, but we need someone to help space the floor. Hopefully they are just trying not to put too much pressure on Dick. He should definitely be given an opportunity.

I’d rather have Dick come off the bench and be more of a primary scorer. With Quickley, Barnes and Barrett as starters, there’s not much more ball to go around

 

[trellaine201]

Why does Russell Westbrook bounce around teams so much. Reminds me of an NHL goalie suitcase Smitty. Gary Smith.

 

[Bjindaho]

Now that Summer League is over, there are a couple of obvious takeaways...

1) JFL should be released soon. Toronto doesn't have a roster spot available and he doesn't really have a role on this team.

2) The rookies aren't NBA-ready. This shouldn't come as a shock, since Walter had weak stats last year (outside of efficiency) and was more of an upside pick, with Shead being a D-first PG that can shoot and distribute but needs to adjust to a faster game, Mogbo was hurt for 3 of 5 games and is disruptive inside but needs to develop an outside shot, and Chomche does a lot of little things well but needs more touches over time and more reps. Battle (not signed) and Carlson also brought some intriguing skills.

3) Neither Agbaji nor Dick should be a starter. It's early and they are fairly young, but neither one is an NBA starter right now. Dick might continue developing to the point where he takes a starter's role, but he absolutely is not there now.

4) The Vezenkov situation still hasn't been resolved. I would love to see him come to camp and see how he could do in Darko's system (with the possibility that if he doesn't fit, Toronto makes a deal to let him go). As a euro baller in a system with 4 guys who are likely going to get some good touches, his game could be a decent complimentary piece.

If Vezenkov stays, Toronto could roll:

Quickley - Barrett - Barnes - Vezenkov - Poetl

with Mitchell, Brown, Dick, Agbaji, Olynyk, Boucher as early season rotation options and the kids likely to force bigger roles as time goes on.

 

[fancy lad]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811133541549326562

He's going to kill it on the prison yard basketball court. MVP.

 

[Suntouchable13]

He's going to kill it on the prison yard basketball court. MVP.

I don't know what lead him down this path. Obviously he made a string of bad decisions and I hope he gets out of this as a better man with better decision making in the future.

 

[1specter]

I don't know what lead him down this path. Obviously he made a string of bad decisions and I hope he gets out of this as a better man with better decision making in the future.

The family for whatever reason seems to have issues in general with the sons, besides Michael Porter Jr. who is the most successful of the bunch. Jontay has the gambling stuff, another younger brother Coban Porter killed a lady while drunk driving and is going to jail for 5+ years, and recently their even younger brother Jevon was arrested for a DWI.

 

[canucksfan]

Now that Summer League is over, there are a couple of obvious takeaways...

1) JFL should be released soon. Toronto doesn't have a roster spot available and he doesn't really have a role on this team.

2) The rookies aren't NBA-ready. This shouldn't come as a shock, since Walter had weak stats last year (outside of efficiency) and was more of an upside pick, with Shead being a D-first PG that can shoot and distribute but needs to adjust to a faster game, Mogbo was hurt for 3 of 5 games and is disruptive inside but needs to develop an outside shot, and Chomche does a lot of little things well but needs more touches over time and more reps. Battle (not signed) and Carlson also brought some intriguing skills.

3) Neither Agbaji nor Dick should be a starter. It's early and they are fairly young, but neither one is an NBA starter right now. Dick might continue developing to the point where he takes a starter's role, but he absolutely is not there now.

4) The Vezenkov situation still hasn't been resolved. I would love to see him come to camp and see how he could do in Darko's system (with the possibility that if he doesn't fit, Toronto makes a deal to let him go). As a euro baller in a system with 4 guys who are likely going to get some good touches, his game could be a decent complimentary piece.

If Vezenkov stays, Toronto could roll:

Quickley - Barrett - Barnes - Vezenkov - Poetl

with Mitchell, Brown, Dick, Agbaji, Olynyk, Boucher as early season rotation options and the kids likely to force bigger roles as time goes on.

I watched a decent amount of the Summer League. Agreed with all of what you said. I thought Walter got better each game. The Raptors as a whole struggled with creating offense. I'm not sure if that was a coaching or player issue. I was expecting more from Agbaji. Chomche has some intriguing skills but is very raw. His block and then running up the court for an attempted dunk was something. I also liked DJ Carton.

If Vezenkov plays that will allow Dick and Agbaji to come off of the bench which is the best for both.

 

[Bjindaho]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1815465672496832722

No more Vezenkov, but he's leaving the full salary on the table, so Toronto has that entire amount under the tax (which they do not want to pay).

Sorry, further up that X chain, JFL was also waived to be released which is why Toronto has an open spot.

 

[Bjindaho]

Some options for the last spot are Isaac Okoro or Tyus Jones as straight signings, trade pick(s) for someone (have a trade exception to cover 6-10M) or trade a player plus and take back a bigger salary (like Boucher and Agbaji for someone who makes more than both then sign someone to a min or close deal).