Raptors Discussion: v89| Those are some big rings | Raptors out to defend their championship

[1specter]

There's no reason to watch the Leafs when the Raptors are the way they are. Love this team

 

[Cloned]

The Raps are THE model organization right now. Excellence and class from the top all the way down.

 

[trellaine201]

Gotta hand it to the raps for staying in this game. They never seem to give up.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Way too much heroball in the second half. Siakam definitely had trouble with the Mavs size. Missing Lowry and Ibaka showed tonight.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Kleber shut him down, I was impressed.

Mavs are just one of those teams that should be a "contender" but fail; what gives?

3 -2 on the road w/o Lowry/Ibaka. I'd take it.

 

[Lightsol]

I was hoping we'd trade for Domi, but that ship has sailed. The closest right now imo would be Matthew Tkachuk - I'd ship Marner's ass for him in a split second, but Calgary would never do it.

Domi and Tkachuk would likely make this WORSE. You think the kids we have are entitled? Domi is by far the most entitled whiner in the whole damned league. And Tkachuk doesn't give a shit about anybody.

 

[BAM]

Max he’s eligible for, and I hope he gets it in Toronto.

Cut from the same cloth as Kyle Lowry with more talent. He’s a keeper.


Never excited to watch the opponents but really looking forward to Doncic-Porzingod. Mavs are a team I don’t see much of.

Yeah I would slow down there. Lowry is on-pace to be in the HOF and is a 6-time all star. FVV is in his first full season actually being a starter.

FVV is nice but if he has to be let go in order to bring in Giannis in 2021 that's a no brainer. Have faith in Masai to find the next FVV just like he did the first time.

 

[BAM]

I wasn’t saying FVV was better. I think he’s more skilled/talented and might have a higher ceiling.

The ‘cut from the same cloth’ was more towards the mental/physical toughness/motor from the undersized guard.

...and he’s an NBA champion.

FVV is a weak link defensively, Lowry is excellent on that end. You saw in the sixers series alone how unplayable FVV was. That alone will never allow FVV to have the higher ceiling.

FVV is slightly taller, better shooting version of JJ Barea tbh

 

[sparxx87]

FVV is a weak link defensively, Lowry is excellent on that end. You saw in the sixers series alone how unplayable FVV was. That alone will never allow FVV to have the higher ceiling.

FVV is slightly taller, better shooting version of JJ Barea tbh

I didn’t include defense but the Sixers are also unique in that their primary is 6’10.

Can’t teach instincts and ultimately that’s what likely wins this for Lowry but again, I think FVV is more developed from a skill point and could potentially peak in the same neighbourhood.


I won’t gloat when I’m right.

 

[BAM]

I didn’t include defense but the Sixers are also unique in that their primary is 6’10.

Can’t teach instincts and ultimately that’s what likely wins this for Lowry but again, I think FVV is more developed from a skill point and could potentially peak in the same neighbourhood.


I won’t gloat when I’m right.

Usually when everyone disagrees with you that's not the case but have fun in your perceived reality. Cheers

 

[sparxx87]

Usually when everyone disagrees with you that's not the case but have fun in your perceived reality. Cheers

presenting your own opinion as everyone’s is always amusing.

Right or wrong, we won’t know the answer for years. You’re talking about perceived reality?

I’m sorry I hurt your feelings a year ago. Please don’t quote me anymore.

 

[Stylizer1]

Fred’s rise is outstanding but he’s not more skilled/talented than Lowry. Lowry’s pedigree is a 5 star recruit from HS that butted heads with coaches and management throughout his career until Masai gave him an intervention and put him on the HHOF path.

Lowry plays hockey too. He's amazing.

 

[Stylizer1]

FVV is a weak link defensively, Lowry is excellent on that end. You saw in the sixers series alone how unplayable FVV was. That alone will never allow FVV to have the higher ceiling.

FVV is slightly taller, better shooting version of JJ Barea tbh

FVV has improved considerably since last season.

 

[Stylizer1]

Fred’s rise is outstanding but he’s not more skilled/talented than Lowry. Lowry’s pedigree is a 5 star recruit from HS that butted heads with coaches and management throughout his career until Masai gave him an intervention and put him on the HHOF path.

Lowry will never make the Hall of Fame.

 

[sparxx87]

Lowry will never make the Hall of Fame.

For me, this one is loftier than my projection that FVV could be an all star.


I love Kyle Lowry, but...HOF?

 

[IceColdBear]

Chauncey Billups is widely expected to make the HOF.

Lowry has had an extremely similar career - the main thing that separates them is Chauncey's finals MVP.

It's not ridiculous to think Kyle can make it, especially if he keeps up his level of play and makes another all-star team or two.

Kyle is also a favourite of advanced stats people, and as those numbers become more widely accepted, the case for him to enter the Hall will only grow over the years.

 

[Stylizer1]

Chauncey Billups is widely expected to make the HOF.

Lowry has had an extremely similar career - the main thing that separates them is Chauncey's finals MVP.

It's not ridiculous to think Kyle can make it, especially if he keeps up his level of play and makes another all-star team or two.

Kyle is also a favourite of advanced stats people, and as those numbers become more widely accepted, the case for him to enter the Hall will only grow over the years.

By who? The only reason he would get in is maybe because of the finals MVP but his career stats don't get him in. For me, to get in to the HOF you need individual awards that separates you from the majority of the players you played against. You need to show you where one of the very best at your position for the duration of your career and not a hand full of all star seasons.

 

[sparxx87]

Chauncey Billups is widely expected to make the HOF.

Lowry has had an extremely similar career - the main thing that separates them is Chauncey's finals MVP.

It's not ridiculous to think Kyle can make it, especially if he keeps up his level of play and makes another all-star team or two.

Kyle is also a favourite of advanced stats people, and as those numbers become more widely accepted, the case for him to enter the Hall will only grow over the years.

Fair point.

Billups is a good comparison but I think he was clearly better. Lowry only made one 3rd team, never made an all defense and might not be a 5x all star if the east and west weren’t so imbalanced during his peak.

 

[Plat87]

3-2 to end the tougher west coast swing is pretty good considering the injuries.

 

[Plat87]

Gotta hand it to the raps for staying in this game. They never seem to give up.

There is no quit in this team I love it, Norm Powell showed out tonight. Pascal with a bad game but he tried to battle through it, I think Doncic is a stud but boy does he get some Harden-like calls, 19 FT's for him compared to 15 for the Raptors as a team.

 

[Marmoset]

The Raptors likely win this game if they're playing the Mavs in game 2 or 3 of the road trip. They just looked tired to me, and yet they still kept it close. Siakam in particular, but even some of the other guys seemed a step slower or a split second behind making decisions.

I think it's starting to validate the concerns about minutes though. Even if they're shorthanded, playing Siakam and FVV (and Lowry previously) such heavy minutes is something you can only do for so long. I've been OK with it in the last few games because there were few choices, but when Siakam clearly looked fatigued last night I would have liked to see him play a little less.

All in all, if someone had told me at the start that we would go 3-2 on a western trip with the injuries we've had, I would have been thrilled. That's a good trip even when healthy.

 

[Eyedea]

By who? The only reason he would get in is maybe because of the finals MVP but his career stats don't get him in. For me, to get in to the HOF you need individual awards that separates you from the majority of the players you played against. You need to show you where one of the very best at your position for the duration of your career and not a hand full of all star seasons.

He’s been up against four elite guards that have occupied a majority of the All NBA nods over the last decade. It’s almost impossible for Lowry to win individual awards when he’s up against Curry, Harden, Paul, and Westbrook. The reason why he’s an enticing choice as a HOFer is due to his contributions to his team accolades (championship, gold medal).

 

[stickty111]

In other news, Pistons fans don't seem to like Casey.

 

[Stylizer1]

He’s been up against four elite guards that have occupied a majority of the All NBA nods over the last decade. It’s almost impossible for Lowry to win individual awards when he’s up against Curry, Harden, Paul, and Westbrook. The reason why he’s an enticing choice as a HOFer is due to his contributions to his team accolades (championship, gold medal).

Lowry isn't on their level so why should he receive the same recognition? You just explained why he shouldn't be a hall of famer.

 

[Eyedea]

Lowry isn't on their level so why should he receive the same recognition? You just explained why he shouldn't be a hall of famer.

What, those guys are already guaranteed hall of famers... we’re also talking about a hall of fame that has the likes of Mo Cheeks, Calvin Murphy, and Earl Monroe. Lowry’s level is far higher than you think especially if you dig into his advanced/peripheral stats.