Utica Comets enter 10 year affiliation with the New Jersey Devils

[ek93]

If the powers at be in Binghamton have a AHL or nothing mindset they are only hurting themselves and local hockey fans.

Seems many fans that I talk with have the “AHL or nothing” mindset as well. I get that many are upset by NJ pulling the rug out, and having AHL hockey here for many years doesn’t help either..but is watching an ECHL team really that much worse than the garbage product NJ put on the ice here for the past few years?

I bet the vast majority of those who frequent games wouldn’t even notice that much of a talent difference. Plus it ain’t like there’s a hell of a lot to do here in the winter.

 

[axecrew]

Which one is it? Can't have it both ways.....

Personally, I'm of the opinion that you can never say never when it comes to anything regarding ownership and location in minor league hockey. The minute someone says something is impossible and it will never happen, it does.

Believe me when I say I'm not in denial that it could happen....but I've also been around the Wolves franchise since 1995 and have seen enough and to know a little more about the innerworkings then the average person on here. IF you will ALL recall WAY BACK in Feb 2020 I told people that the Carolina Hurricanes would become the next affiliate in Chicago there were those on here who told me I didn't know what I was talking about Carolina would NEVER leave Charlotte after creating a statewide brand and Blah blah blah...where is Carolina right now? Chicago...told people on here that the Rockford IceHogs were for sale would be bought by the Blackhawks and possibly moved if the city and building didn't do something to upgrade the building in a MAJOR way since the Hawks hated the building and thought it was lacking big time...the state and city announced that they were putting 26 million into the building and the team was sold to who...The Blackhawks. I'd say with the exception of One...I have enough credibilty to say what I know or think and back it up.
The likelyhood of the Chicago Wolves going anywhere anytime soon is slim to none...Could it sometime happen...Never say Never I mean hell if they can sell the Portland Pirates anything can happen. I mean winning 1 Calder cup should give you league rights in perpetuity right? Imagine winning 2 your first 6 season's in the league...what does that get you?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Believe me when I say I'm not in denial that it could happen....but I've also been around the Wolves franchise since 1995 and have seen enough and to know a little more about the innerworkings then the average person on here. IF you will ALL recall WAY BACK in Feb 2020 I told people that the Carolina Hurricanes would become the next affiliate in Chicago there were those on here who told me I didn't know what I was talking about Carolina would NEVER leave Charlotte after creating a statewide brand and Blah blah blah...where is Carolina right now? Chicago...told people on here that the Rockford IceHogs were for sale would be bought by the Blackhawks and possibly moved if the city and building didn't do something to upgrade the building in a MAJOR way since the Hawks hated the building and thought it was lacking big time...the state and city announced that they were putting 26 million into the building and the team was sold to who...The Blackhawks. I'd say with the exception of One...I have enough credibilty to say what I know or think and back it up.
The likelyhood of the Chicago Wolves going anywhere anytime soon is slim to none...Could it sometime happen...Never say Never I mean hell if they can sell the Portland Pirates anything can happen. I mean winning 1 Calder cup should give you league rights in perpetuity right? Imagine winning 2 your first 6 season's in the league...what does that get you?

OUTSIDE of the Colorado Eagles, axe... for clarification purposes it's 4 championships..... Portland is also the only market in AHL History to repeat as league champions, expansion, or not

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Portland is also the only market in AHL History to repeat as league champions, expansion, or not

Assuming you discount the Buffalo Bisons in 1943 and 1944, the Cleveland Barons in 1953 and 1954, the Hershey Bears in 1958 and 1959, the Springfield Indians in 1960, 1961 and 1962, the Rochester Americans in 1964 and 1965, the Nova Scotia Voyageurs in 1975 and 1976, the Springfield Indians again in 1990 and 1991, and Hershey again in 2008 and 2009, this is a true and correct statement.

 

[GindyDraws]

Believe me when I say I'm not in denial that it could happen....but I've also been around the Wolves franchise since 1995 and have seen enough and to know a little more about the innerworkings then the average person on here. IF you will ALL recall WAY BACK in Feb 2020 I told people that the Carolina Hurricanes would become the next affiliate in Chicago there were those on here who told me I didn't know what I was talking about Carolina would NEVER leave Charlotte after creating a statewide brand and Blah blah blah...where is Carolina right now? Chicago...told people on here that the Rockford IceHogs were for sale would be bought by the Blackhawks and possibly moved if the city and building didn't do something to upgrade the building in a MAJOR way since the Hawks hated the building and thought it was lacking big time...the state and city announced that they were putting 26 million into the building and the team was sold to who...The Blackhawks. I'd say with the exception of One...I have enough credibilty to say what I know or think and back it up.
The likelyhood of the Chicago Wolves going anywhere anytime soon is slim to none...Could it sometime happen...Never say Never I mean hell if they can sell the Portland Pirates anything can happen. I mean winning 1 Calder cup should give you league rights in perpetuity right? Imagine winning 2 your first 6 season's in the league...what does that get you?

The Houston Aeros won a Calder Cup and they got shipped to Iowa cause Les Alexander got tired of hockey, and Tillman Fertitta thinks the only level of hockey that exists is the NHL.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

I think there is a certain arrogance after almost 40 years of ahl hockey locally, but times change and reality sets in. Dave Andrews was also a big pro Binghamton guy, that affects things. There are many markets that have successfully made the adjustment to the ECHL, although I would love to understand better what went wrong in manchester.

The short answer about what went wrong in Manchester is that the local's where already losing faith in management at the end of their AHL tenure. So the solution everyone involved with the team came up with after the echl switch and sale to local ownership was to triple down on everything they where doing while cutting costs. For the long answer read though these threads. Monarchs seek new ownership Monarchs are ceasing operations

 

[Roadhog]

Seems many fans that I talk with have the “AHL or nothing” mindset as well. I get that many are upset by NJ pulling the rug out, and having AHL hockey here for many years doesn’t help either..but is watching an ECHL team really that much worse than the garbage product NJ put on the ice here for the past few years?

I bet the vast majority of those who frequent games wouldn’t even notice that much of a talent difference. Plus it ain’t like there’s a hell of a lot to do here in the winter.

As a fan who had both AHL and ECHL in the same market until recently, I can honestly say there isn't a noticeable difference in the level of play. Guys getting AHL call-ups and PTO's are usually leading their respective teams in scoring, no different than guys moving up from the A the the parent team.

 

[Seattle Totems]

nope....

the city blocked the Flames, why would the Canucks return home with the affiliate knowing the scenario they're in right now... No other league has even approached Abbotsford since the Flames/Heat were cancelled in BC.... THERE is still no contract past 2022 if the Heat were returned to Stockton.

Abbotsford was tried it didn't work same with Newfoundland (aka St. John's) until Edmonton tried playing in the Leafs backyard.... which is why the Marlies left Newfoundland for Toronto, CC....

CSE would need an operator like what Esche/Mitchell did/are to create the Comets and/or operate a franchise... which is clearly the minority opinion the way the AHL is operated in the last decade or so....

You literally live on a different coast and have zero knowledge or insight into this situation.

Abbotsford didn't work because its a city of Canuck fans that had no interest in watching the Flames farm team. The city underwrote the Flames losses and guaranteed income. It was a horrible deal for the city and they were universally criticized so they backed out.

The Flames went one further by claiming the Canucks would be infringing on their home territory if they brought their farm team to Rogers Arena. They also seem to have some type of veto or control over the situation as they signed an exclusivity agreement for a period of time. All in all the Flames owners were a bunch of greedy assholes who were not intent on growing the AHL or helping anyone but themselves. Most people that live here and understand the situation agree with this statement.

If the Canucks decided to move their AHL franchise to Abbotsford, without interference from the Flames, their chances of success would be vastly improved compared to that of the Heat.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

You literally live on a different coast and have zero knowledge or insight into this situation.

Abbotsford didn't work because its a city of Canuck fans that had no interest in watching the Flames farm team. The city underwrote the Flames losses and guaranteed income. It was a horrible deal for the city and they were universally criticized so they backed out.

The Flames went one further by claiming the Canucks would be infringing on their home territory if they brought their farm team to Rogers Arena. They also seem to have some type of veto or control over the situation as they signed an exclusivity agreement for a period of time. All in all the Flames owners were a bunch of greedy assholes who were not intent on growing the AHL or helping anyone but themselves. Most people that live here and understand the situation agree with this statement.

If the Canucks decided to move their AHL franchise to Abbotsford, without interference from the Flames, their chances of success would be vastly improved compared to that of the Heat.

it likely won't be Abbotsford, ST....

WERE you there when the Heat left when Abbotsford opted out of the lease? because that's essentially what transpired

why exactly was Abbotsford Centre built and why hasn't Abbotsford attracted another tenant since, independent of league....

 

[UticaHockey]

There is no question in my mind that a Canucks AHL team in Abbotsford wouldn't be a success. I believe they are very much in the mix for the eventual landing spot. The biggest question is whether the Canucks will put the team somewhere close to Vancouver or somewhere in the Pacific time zone closer to other AHL rivals.

If you look at a map of AHL cities Colorado, Manitoba, Texas and Charlette are all on geographical islands. Vancouver can look at those cities as examples of being close to the NHL city and the advantages it gives them vs the disadvantage of being further from other AHL teams.

Team Map/Directory

 

[bleedblue94]

The short answer about what went wrong in Manchester is that the local's where already losing faith in management at the end of their AHL tenure. So the solution everyone involved with the team came up with after the echl switch and sale to local ownership was to triple down on everything they where doing while cutting costs. For the long answer read though these threads. Monarchs seek new ownership Monarchs are ceasing operations

Awesome, thank you!

 

[bleedblue94]

Seems many fans that I talk with have the “AHL or nothing” mindset as well. I get that many are upset by NJ pulling the rug out, and having AHL hockey here for many years doesn’t help either..but is watching an ECHL team really that much worse than the garbage product NJ put on the ice here for the past few years?

I bet the vast majority of those who frequent games wouldn’t even notice that much of a talent difference. Plus it ain’t like there’s a hell of a lot to do here in the winter.

I actually think the ECHL may put out a more entertaining product. Not as good, but entertaining. There is a difference. The AHL game has changed so much it can be almost boring at times.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

Assuming you discount the Buffalo Bisons in 1943 and 1944, the Cleveland Barons in 1953 and 1954, the Hershey Bears in 1958 and 1959, the Springfield Indians in 1960, 1961 and 1962, the Rochester Americans in 1964 and 1965, the Nova Scotia Voyageurs in 1975 and 1976, the Springfield Indians again in 1990 and 1991, and Hershey again in 2008 and 2009, this is a true and correct statement.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I actually think the ECHL may put out a more entertaining product. Not as good, but entertaining. There is a difference. The AHL game has changed so much it can be almost boring at times.

the major difference between the two was whether you were a diehard fan or the casual fan..... but you always had to be aware of even the markets you did play, but those you didn't and then simply be aware of how that franchise was doing.

remember the discussions every year in and around the master schedule releases and you wanted a better mix of opponents, but it seemed like it was the same set of opponents, not unlike what you're seeing now in this 2021 AHL Season.... where it gets tiring of seeing or playing the same teams constantly...

Take the 3 team East WITHOUT Springfield.... yes, it's 40 game mini season max but PRO playing a heavy dose of BRI/HFD even on a neutral arena..... after a while it's like why are we doing this....

it's one thing to mix it up.... but the adage was fanbases would ask the teams to mix that schedule up, but either the master schedule was so set in rotation that it never was accomplished.... you lose your core fanbase after a few years of that....

 

[bleedblue94]

the major difference between the two was whether you were a diehard fan or the casual fan..... but you always had to be aware of even the markets you did play, but those you didn't and then simply be aware of how that franchise was doing.

remember the discussions every year in and around the master schedule releases and you wanted a better mix of opponents, but it seemed like it was the same set of opponents, not unlike what you're seeing now in this 2021 AHL Season.... where it gets tiring of seeing or playing the same teams constantly...

Take the 3 team East WITHOUT Springfield.... yes, it's 40 game mini season max but PRO playing a heavy dose of BRI/HFD even on a neutral arena..... after a while it's like why are we doing this....

it's one thing to mix it up.... but the adage was fanbases would ask the teams to mix that schedule up, but either the master schedule was so set in rotation that it never was accomplished.... you lose your core fanbase after a few years of that....

I was referring more to the structure of the game and how it is used now predominantly to coach out mistakes from players that are most likely looking at bottom 6 or bottom 9 nhl roles. Players with elite skill and top line upside usually are in the ahl for a very short run. when you have coaches pressing positioning and defense you start to see less mistakes and less openings for offense, less d men stepping up for the risky big hit, those things that can lead to a breakdown and more scoring opportunities. That is not to dis the ahl at all, they just seem to have different functions at this time. I almost look at the current echl as a very poor man's version of what the ahl was in the 90s.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Disclaimer-He is a very credible hockey source and this does not mean they are guaranteed to be moving anywhere or that anyone from Binghamton is involved at this moment.

 

[ek93]

I actually think the ECHL may put out a more entertaining product. Not as good, but entertaining. There is a difference. The AHL game has changed so much it can be almost boring at times.

I agree. Less rigid systems, more open hockey. Probably more physicality too. Guess we’ll find out!

 

[bleedblue94]

I agree. Less rigid systems, more open hockey. Probably more physicality too. Guess we’ll find out!

maybe

 

[Seattle Totems]

it likely won't be Abbotsford, ST....

WERE you there when the Heat left when Abbotsford opted out of the lease? because that's essentially what transpired

why exactly was Abbotsford Centre built and why hasn't Abbotsford attracted another tenant since, independent of league....

You live in Maine and know nothing about the situation. I actually live in the lower mainland.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Assuming you discount the Buffalo Bisons in 1943 and 1944, the Cleveland Barons in 1953 and 1954, the Hershey Bears in 1958 and 1959, the Springfield Indians in 1960, 1961 and 1962, the Rochester Americans in 1964 and 1965, the Nova Scotia Voyageurs in 1975 and 1976, the Springfield Indians again in 1990 and 1991, and Hershey again in 2008 and 2009, this is a true and correct statement.

Boy, it's been quiet in here lately...

 

[JMCx4]

Boy, it's been quiet in here lately...

Quoting your own post just to revive the thread smacks of desperation. Or boredom. Your pick.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Now that it's official that the Comets are moving to Abbotsford, I guess it's official that the Utica Devils are returning.

But this time, I expect this affiliation to last longer.

If the Charlotte Checkers are for sale, I think the St. Louis Blues should buy them and Florida goes back to continue their affiliation with the Springfield Falcons. Don't know where the Blues would put their AHL team, but if I had to guess I'd probably assume Kansas City, Peoria or Memphis.

 

[axecrew]

it likely won't be Abbotsford, ST....

WERE you there when the Heat left when Abbotsford opted out of the lease? because that's essentially what transpired

why exactly was Abbotsford Centre built and why hasn't Abbotsford attracted another tenant since, independent of league....

I guess this post has aged VERY POORLY since a week ago

 

[wildcat48]

I guess this post has aged VERY POORLY since a week ago

 

[Atlantian]

I guess this post has aged VERY POORLY since a week ago

That was a sign for all of us that it was going to be Abbotsford