Post-Game Talk: Utah undefeated vs Habs all time. Bergevin trade strikes again.

[Rapala]

You keep losing people who won't attend games and may never come back.

Freebies are getting passed around like candy going through two and even three hands.
I've already passed up two games this season. Both horrible stinkers.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The funny thing about the Dach trade is if we keep the pick and draft Nazar everyone and i mean almost the entire boards would be complaining about Nazar. Another small player. A flop i mean he got only 1 assist in 3 games he is not ready and clearly a flot since he's not Crosby quality at 20 years old i mean he's not even dominating the AHL that much. He would clearly be called a flop around here no doubt about it. It was a fine trade. A fine gamble. The only trade KH made that i did not like and still don't like is the Newhook trade. That was too much given for a guy like him at 22 and a half he was too old to be an interesting gamble.

The Dach trade was a great move. It's brutal listening to people try to re-write history on this.

You can't predict injuries and ultimately that's what 's really messed things up for him.

 

[ReHabs]

The funny thing about the Dach trade is if we keep the pick and draft Nazar everyone and i mean almost the entire boards would be complaining about Nazar. Another small player. A flop i mean he got only 1 assist in 3 games he is not ready and clearly a flot since he's not Crosby quality at 20 years old i mean he's not even dominating the AHL that much. He would clearly be called a flop around here no doubt about it. It was a fine trade. A fine gamble. The only trade KH made that i did not like and still don't like is the Newhook trade. That was too much given for a guy like him at 22 and a half he was too old to be an interesting gamble.

You think people would be complaining about the 20 year old who is over PPG in the AHL? I don't think so.

You like to say everybody should be patient until a player is 23, don't you? What's changed?

 

[Kosseca]

MSL did really well with our prospects. Everyone coming into this season had improved significantly since he took over. So I don't think it's accurate to say that hiring him was a mistake. He did a lot of good for us while we were rebuilding.

That being said, this year's a disappointment. I think most people expected us to be a lot better than we've been. Every coach has a shelf life and maybe MSL's is over. All of the positives he had coming into this year have reversed. Dach, CC, Newhook Slaf... all developed really well under him and all have taken a step back. Caufield's goal numbers are okay but his play is way off from where it should be. The team isn't generating any offensive pressure and we don't look anywhere close to the teams we had even last year.

I'm not sure if a new coach is the solution or if they need an injection of veteran talent. But the team doesn't look right and hasn't looked right since training camp. Normally camp isn't an indication of anything but it certainly set the tone for this season. Injuries haven't helped but we should be so much better than we are regardless.

I agree that MSL did help some of the guy developed, but he could have done that as an assistant coach. As I said, it was a mistake to bring him as head coach, not to have him on the coaching staff.

The flaws in his coaching was noticeable last year. How many time did fan and media said that players where chasing the puck all night in their defensive zone last year, being stuck there for extended period of time?? Defensive problems with this group are not new to this season and it was predictable - to some extent - that they would struggle again. Now we add the bad bench management, pouty face all the time and questionable line management and you are left with the realization that MSL wasn't ready to be head coach.

At this point i'm not sure a new coach would help either as with this market, you need a French speaking one, and I don't see one that excite me to replace him. I think that the short term solution is to bring a vet assistant coach (I would ask Quenneville to be honest) to step in and work with MSL to teach him coaching, like MSL is teaching playing to the players.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I agree that MSL did help some of the guy developed, but he could have done that as an assistant coach. As I said, it was a mistake to bring him as head coach, not to have him on the coaching staff.

The flaws in his coaching was noticeable last year. How many time did fan and media said that players where chasing the puck all night in their defensive zone last year, being stuck there for extended period of time?? Defensive problems with this group are not new to this season and it was predictable - to some extent - that they would struggle again. Now we add the bad bench management, pouty face all the time and questionable line management and you are left with the realization that MSL wasn't ready to be head coach.

I think the team played well given the roster we had last season. We might've even sniffed the playoffs had we not dealt away Monahan.

Coming into this year there weren't too many people upset with MSL. You had some posters here upset with him because they felt X wasn't getting enough ice but by and large it was pretty positive.

At this point i'm not sure a new coach would help either as with this market, you need a French speaking one, and I don't see one that excite me to replace him. I think that the short term solution is to bring a vet assistant coach (I would ask Quenneville to be honest) to step in and work with MSL to teach him coaching, like MSL is teaching playing to the players.

Pascal Vincent?

 

[Katatoniakk]

How about that Armia guy on the power play ? Well deserved I'd say

 

[Kosseca]

I think the team played well given the roster we had last season. We might've even sniffed the playoffs had we not dealt away Monahan.

Coming into this year there weren't too many people upset with MSL. You had some posters here upset with him because they felt X wasn't getting enough ice but by and large it was pretty positive.

Pascal Vincent?

Vincent may be the only option, but you get another young coach with little NHL experience.

This year problem with this team are not only on MSL's shoulders. So many players are underperforming, starting with Suzuki. Training camp was a train wreck and we are still dealing with the aftermath of that. But having 2 or 3 guys underperforming is one thing, but 15 out of 22... euh... there is more to it then just players fault.

Last year our goalies could make a save, not this year, that is the main difference in my mind. There has been very little progress in the team overall play. Defensively, there are still a lot of confusion and offensively, the execution is so bad that they can't make 2 pass in a row. During the 3rd against Vegas, they where all on the same page, passes where connecting and they where first on the puck. Why can't they play like this all the time? in the 3rd against Utah they where dumping the puck center ice, golf swinging the puck into open space to no-one.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Vincent may be the only option, but you get another young coach with little NHL experience.

This year problem with this team are not only on MSL's shoulders. So many players are underperforming, starting with Suzuki. Training camp was a train wreck and we are still dealing with the aftermath of that. But having 2 or 3 guys underperforming is one thing, but 15 out of 22... euh... there is more to it then just players fault.

Last year our goalies could make a save, not this year, that is the main difference in my mind. There has been very little progress in the team overall play. Defensively, there are still a lot of confusion and offensively, the execution is so bad that they can't make 2 pass in a row. During the 3rd against Vegas, they where all on the same page, passes where connecting and they where first on the puck. Why can't they play like this all the time? in the 3rd against Utah they where dumping the puck center ice, golf swinging the puck into open space to no-one.

I don't know. I expected us to be a lot better. I'm not sure what went wrong. But two huge injuries in camp, Roy doesn't make the team and then Dach sucks after coming back.... it was an awful start to the year.

 

[teamfirst]

You think people would be complaining about the 20 year old who is over PPG in the AHL? I don't think so.

You like to say everybody should be patient until a player is 23, don't you? What's changed?

It change to 22 if he doesn't like the trade or the GM who did it

 

[Kosseca]

I don't know. I expected us to be a lot better. I'm not sure what went wrong. But two huge injuries in camp, Roy doesn't make the team and then Dach sucks after coming back.... it was an awful start to the year.

I'm like you. Looking back to last season and, loosing so many games by 1, you have to think that adding Dach, Hutson and Laine would get you a more competitive team. But as you said, major injury to Reinbacher and Laine didn't start the party on the good note.

At this point there are so many guys underperforming that you have to take a step back and look at the rest of the season as a development year again. This is why I said bring a real vet coach to support MSL, he needs it, and it may just put thing back into a more positive space and set the stage for a better season next year.

 

[Revansky]

At some point when everyone is underperforming, you gotta turn to the coach. That 2nd powerplay formation is putrid. I'm all for players to be held accountable but they need to be use to the best of their abilities also. Barron shouldn't be on the ice in OT. Gallagher isn't a PP player. Slaf should be on the PP instead. The screening and playing down low was the only part of his game that was working. If Laine can play in the next few days at least it would be something to look forward...

 

[puckeater]

Grimace strikes again!

 

[Jigger77]

It's not so easily fixed. It's a sign that the lines are often dominated and stuck in their zone.

Watch the players I listed closely tonight. You'll very easily notice multiple times where they can safely get off the ice but choose not to. Then after this is when they get pinned in their own zone because they're spent.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Newhook and Dach are garbage, thank you HuGo for these trades.

Frankly, I thought Newhook and, the often criticized, Dvorak, were among Montreal's better forwards.

I also think that some here are starting to realize that Hutson may not be the instant panacea for Montreal's power play that so many were hoping. Hutson will be a great player, but at least as of today, Matheson is still a better option.

 

[hvac412]

All this bitching would have more merit if it made sense.

If Dach, Slaf, Newhook are truly this awful then how could you also blame MSL at the same time? How’s he supposed to win?

And inversely if MSL is even worse than Michou why would you blame a bunch of young players playing for the worst coach ever?

You can’t have it both ways and want to make it make sense.

There’s something going wrong. It’s frustrating to not know what it is. But benchings need to start.

As much as it would be a relief to find out Suzuki and Slaf are actually hurt they still better not be playing hurt because that stuff needs to stop

We’ve seen what the core is capable of ,the experts who have been doing this for a while and that includes coaches & players said that once the honeymoon is over this is when you know whether you have a real coach or not,well were there and it’s pretty obvious unless your blind that Marty is out of solutions, my focus right now is on what upper management is going to do next, they took in my opinion a very irresponsible risk in doing a rebuild with a completely green coaching staff and i said that from day one.I don’t think we can even properly evaluate the players that KH has brought in because of how bad the team is being coached.You can clearly see from the body language that some players are checked out at times.They’ve painted themselves into a corner and I really don’t have much faith that Gorton even has a clue on how to get us out of this mess.

 

[rickthegoon]

Perhaps time to find a coach that has more than high school experience.

He’s barely 6 months into his new 3 year deal…. I think we’re stuck for a while.

 

[Rapala]

Frankly, I thought Newhook and, the often criticized, Dvorak, were among Montreal's better forwards.

I also think that some here are starting to realize that Hutson may not be the instant panacea for Montreal's power play that so many were hoping. Hutson will be a great player, but at least as of today, Matheson is still a better option.

They were.
I actually wanted Newhook playing with Suzuki hoping it would help Nick pick up his pace but it didn't...
Suzuki looked weak and tired throughout.

 

[Tyson]

I wasn't aware that Utah was playing their 4th game in 6 nights and had lost 8 of their last 10 games.

 

[Yoor]

At this point i'm not sure a new coach would help either as with this market, you need a French speaking one, and I don't see one that excite me to replace him. I think that the short term solution is to bring a vet assistant coach (I would ask Quenneville to be honest) to step in and work with MSL to teach him coaching, like MSL is teaching playing to the players.

Ok, this is not personal and I am not signaling you out personally but can people please stop suggesting that we try and "develop" a head coach...at the NHL level??? This is not a development league for coaches for the love of god. Why is this even being suggested? Because of the language prerequisite? If that is why then we have an even bigger organizational issue than I thought. It is 2024...many of the French media dinosaur reporters are either retired or on their way out...fans may complain a bit but if the team is winning because we hired the best coach available for one of the most storied franchises in the sport they will have a hard time defending their position. What would their argument be? "it's ok to lose as long as we have a French coach that can answer the French media questions??? Who in Quebec doesn't understand English in 2024? Trust me, everyone would get over it in a hurry or look pretty stupid trying to argue against hiring the best available.

I simply don't get it...and for the record I am French and I could care less about the language issue. We look like idiots.

 

[morhilane]

I wasn't aware that Utah was playing their 4th game in 6 nights and had lost 8 of their last 10 games.

They have 2 less regular wins than the Habs, but a couple more points because they went to more OTs.

 

[overlords]

Gallagher is entering his grumpy old Gran Torino phase and I like it

 

[Canadienna]

Pezz being out of the lineup for this long while we're this bad is a mystery to me.

Don't get me wrong, he's not going to change their fortunes, but the players that have kept their spots over him are being sent the wrong message.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I'm like you. Looking back to last season and, loosing so many games by 1, you have to think that adding Dach, Hutson and Laine would get you a more competitive team. But as you said, major injury to Reinbacher and Laine didn't start the party on the good note.

At this point there are so many guys underperforming that you have to take a step back and look at the rest of the season as a development year again. This is why I said bring a real vet coach to support MSL, he needs it, and it may just put thing back into a more positive space and set the stage for a better season next year.

We all agree on that, the problem is or how I see it from outside, MSL is in a situation where all the medias scrutiny him. To have an assistant coach who is well knowned name will be like he's been demoted. I can see the caricatures him as a student and the teacher experienced coach. Lot of memes, lot of laughs. It have to be presented to the medias in a way like MSL have too many job and he needed help. Like he asked it for months and the experienced coach wasn't available. MSL have to confess he was tired and the amount of job is huge.

That's because of the media exposure here. Management have to find a way to introduce the assistant coach to protect MSL from hard criticisms.

 

[Kosseca]

Ok, this is not personal and I am not signaling you out personally but can people please stop suggesting that we try and "develop" a head coach...at the NHL level??? This is not a development league for coaches for the love of god. Why is this even being suggested? Because of the language prerequisite? If that is why then we have an even bigger organizational issue than I thought. It is 2024...many of the French media dinosaur reporters are either retired or on their way out...fans may complain a bit but if the team is winning because we hired the best coach available for one of the most storied franchises in the sport they will have a hard time defending their position. What would their argument be? "it's ok to lose as long as we have a French coach that can answer the French media questions??? Who in Quebec doesn't understand English in 2024? Trust me, everyone would get over it in a hurry or look pretty stupid trying to argue against hiring the best available.

I simply don't get it...and for the record I am French and I could care less about the language issue. We look like idiots.

Dont worry, I'm not offended by your post because I agree! In an ideal world, you would not have given MSL the head coach job and he would have been an assistant to learn some of the tricks of the trade.

Problem now is that you can't fire him (well. you could, but we all know they wont) and if you let him learn his job without proper support, you risk damaging the rebuilt beyond repair. So what is your option? My take on this right now is just trying to turn lemonds into limonade.

 

[habbubba]

What happens if the Habs lose the next 3 in ugly fashion?

Applaud them for their consistency and dedication to tanking.