Post-Game Talk: Utah No Names dunk on Pens (still not Sullys fault apparently)

[NewAgeOutlaw]

No, he doesn't. No coach will fix this. You just need to accept the next few years will be bad. That's what's needed here.

They haven't developed any players under Sullivan's tenure. Keeping him around because "nobody can fix it" makes no sense.

If the roster is as bad as the performance you are going to get high draft position regardless of coach and with Sullivan your young players are going to get 6 minutes a night so Matt Nieto and Kevin Hayes can fart around doing nothing.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

-34 goal differential. They are essentially being outscored by a goal and a half a game.

Yeah, this is XGen Penguins levels of terrible and disjointed.

After 28 games when MJ was fired:

Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

(Also here's MJ's same year he was fired at the same game mark at 23 - Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick)

23 Games in with Sullivan after missing the previous two seasons:

Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Yeah, it's hilarious how we all look back on the MJ era as being complete dogshit and miserable and it was much better than this stuff, yet we're still sitting here wondering if Sully's gonna be fired after missing the playoffs for the third time in a row, and tumbling down to a potential top-3 pick.

This organization's fallen so far. Just a shitty mix of unlikable, arrogant and incompetent.

 

[Ryder71]

They haven't developed any players under Sullivan's tenure. Keeping him around because "nobody can fix it" makes no sense.

If the roster is as bad as the performance you are going to get high draft position regardless of coach and with Sullivan your young players are going to get 6 minutes a night so Matt Nieto and Kevin Hayes can fart around doing nothing.

A new coach might spark a few game winning streak though, happens all the time, no thanks. They need to plummet as much as possible. Every point they lose is important.

 

[metalan2]

No, he doesn't. No coach will fix this. You just need to accept the next few years will be bad. That's what's needed here.

It's been bad for 4 seasons in a row.

Nothing will begin to even get better if Sullivan is the head coach.

He needs to be fired now and should not be in charge of a rebuild of even the tank of a season.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

-34 goal differential. They are essentially being outscored by a goal and a half a game.

The first year they missed under Sullivan, they finished with a -2 differential, then the next year +4, but holy shit, -34 is f***ing awful.

Before Sullivan, the only other time the Penguins were a negative differential was right after the lockout with Edzo being fired and Therrien taking over, they were -72. Not even a dipshit like Mike Johnston was in the negative differential when he was fired, he was +1 Goal Differential, lol.

Last season after 23 games, they were +8 Goal Differential.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

With the way things are going now I’d be surprised if he hits 650 when all is said and done….

If Sullivan remains, I don't see Sid hitting anything past 670-680 at most. Say he stays on this pace...

He will finish this season at 621.

So to surpass Mario, he needs 70 goals. You're then hoping he scores 35+ the next two seasons, I don't see that happening under Sullivan at all. Crosby's career average for goals is 38. Sullivan about to spread his cheeks and make sure he can shit all over that before Sid is done.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

They haven't developed any players under Sullivan's tenure. Keeping him around because "nobody can fix it" makes no sense.

If the roster is as bad as the performance you are going to get high draft position regardless of coach and with Sullivan your young players are going to get 6 minutes a night so Matt Nieto and Kevin Hayes can fart around doing nothing.

How can you develop players when you treat them all like 4th liners? Hell even Jake Guentzel he treated like a 4th liner, but Jake was on a team that was in a far more positive head space after winning the cup the year before and just an absolute machine, he had him with Cullen for parts of his first season if you remember.

Since then, he's treated them all like 4th liners or at best if they're super lucky, 3rd liners - McGroarty, O'Connor, Puustinen, Poulin etc. Then some he wouldn't even play past the 4th line or much at all - Hallander, Gruden, Ponomarev, Lafferty, Angello, Bjorkqvist, etc.

Or they'd just marinate forever in WBS and leave. I still laugh at how much of a piece of shit he was with players like Friedman, POJ, Riikola, etc. He just pouted having to use them and would throw them in usage to purposely sink them and when Ruhwedel was also shit he'd still play him anyway while the others were held to some ridiculously high standard that wasn't the same for others. Do these names matter? f*** no, the situations do. Everyone wants to focus on the f***ing names and then attach their bias towards "well he sucked" who gives a f***.

Look at how he used them. He would play them to so they fail and he could then say see, told you.

Look at the rope Rust (and even Simon and Sheary) got to develop and keep playing through his mistakes, he only got that because he was with Sullivan in WBS.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

They haven't developed any players under Sullivan's tenure. Keeping him around because "nobody can fix it" makes no sense.

If the roster is as bad as the performance you are going to get high draft position regardless of coach and with Sullivan your young players are going to get 6 minutes a night so Matt Nieto and Kevin Hayes can fart around doing nothing.

It's beyond stupid that anyone would still want him around because "nobody can fix this". Who the f*** cares? Sullivan's an asshat who refuses to play youngsters or develop them, and his team plays boring, uninspired hockey. That alone is reason to get rid of him pronto

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It's beyond stupid that anyone would still want him around because "nobody can fix this". Who the f*** cares? Sullivan's an asshat who refuses to play youngsters or develop them, and his team plays boring, uninspired hockey. That alone is reason to get rid of him pronto

It's funny they think nobody can fix this while trying literally everything but firing the coach to fix "this."

FSG - "Listen, we've overhauled the roster a lot since 2018 and have changed GM's twice, we've tried everything!"
"What about firing the coach?"
FSG - "We've tried everything we are willing to try."

 

[HandshakeLine]

He has his Cups, Olympic golds, his trophy case, his millions

He’s just coasting until retirement IMO.

Maybe he should have just retired instead of signing an extension?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's funny they think nobody can fix this while trying literally everything but firing the coach to fix "this."

FSG - "Listen, we've overhauled the roster a lot since 2018 and have changed GM's twice, we've tried everything!"
"What about firing the coach?"
FSG - "We've tried everything we are willing to try."

That's what annoys the f*** out of me the most about this situation. Every single defense or argument for keeping him is "well we suck anyways, nobody can fix an old core", but how do we know that? THEY WON'T FIRE THE COACH TO FIND OUT!

Maybe the core is too old and maybe they'll still suck after he's fired. But it would be nice to actually find out first before we just toss away the remaining years of Sid's and Geno's careers.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That's what annoys the f*** out of me the most about this situation. Every single defense or argument for keeping him is "well we suck anyways, nobody can fix an old core", but how do we know that? THEY WON'T FIRE THE COACH TO FIND OUT!

Maybe the core is too old and maybe they'll still suck after he's fired. But it would be nice to actually find out first before we just toss away the remaining years of Sid's and Geno's careers.

It's worse knowing they knew it was something they needed to do with Therrien, Bylsma, and Johnston, but with Sullivan they just decided they wanted to see how much more he can f*** up past a decade.

 

[HandshakeLine]

That's what annoys the f*** out of me the most about this situation. Every single defense or argument for keeping him is "well we suck anyways, nobody can fix an old core", but how do we know that? THEY WON'T FIRE THE COACH TO FIND OUT!

Maybe the core is too old and maybe they'll still suck after he's fired. But it would be nice to actually find out first before we just toss away the remaining years of Sid's and Geno's careers.

Also, the public humiliation of Sullivan getting fired would be a nice touch.

 

[Kaptah]

Crosby is in that phase in his career, where he should accept a trade to play 3rd line center for a power house. He is no 1st liner anymore.

 

[Pancakes]

Crosby is in that phase in his career, where he should accept a trade to play 3rd line center for a power house. He is no 1st liner anymore.

I don't think he wants to.

Also (and this isn't directed at you) I think people need to stop acting like Crosby not playing meaningful hockey again would be this big tragedy. Mark Messier missed the playoffs the last 7 years of his career. Gretzky didn't make it in the final two years of his career. Mario missed the playoffs the final four years of his career.

Would it suck if that's how it plays out? Yeah. But let's not act like it's unprecedented. Sid knew this was a possibility when he signed that two year deal. If he wants to gamble on Dubas/Sullivan being able to turn the team around and get him another playoff appearance before he retires then he has to live with the fact that they may well brutally fail at that ask.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Lmao, here's Yohe's 10 observations and they're f***ing hilarious because he goes out of his way to not make it Sullivan's fault or that he's the issue...here's the "special ones"...

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5943032/2024/11/24/penguins-sidney-crosby-no-hope/?source=emp_shared_article

• It’s time for Kyle Dubas or someone from Fenway Sports Group to speak with the media about this team’s performance, the empty seats, the outrageous ticket and concession prices, and more.

As a member of the media, I don’t make this suggestion from a self-serving standpoint. When ownership and/or the team president speaks to the media, they are speaking directly to the fan base. That’s what needs to happen. The nature of the plan needs to be stated, as does management’s honest opinion of this team and where it’s headed. The fan base deserves it.

I asked Mike Sullivan if he was OK with his team’s effort and energy level, and he said those items were not a concern.

Respectfully, I would disagree. The Penguins showed a disturbing lack of fight most of the night. This has been the case all season. Crosby dropped the gloves one night earlier against the Winnipeg Jets. He cares. I’m not so sure everyone in the dressing room cares. I see no fight. No pushback. No passion. I see a lot of veterans who are interested in earning a paycheck and not much else. This is a major problem.

So Sullivan isn't just earning a pay check? Also where does he get off thinking the others aren't also battling? Because Sid lost his shit on Connor does that suddenly give him all of the "I care" points? f***ing moron.

• Ryan Shea and Jack St. Ivany were so good together last season. Sullivan hasn’t gone to them once this season as the third pairing. I don’t understand this. Ryan Graves and Matt Grzelcyk played together Saturday and were a disaster, as you’d expect. Given how bad the blue line has been, you’d think the Penguins would consider going back to a pairing that has previously worked. Odd.

Every f***ing defenseman paired with Grzelcyk sucks, to not figure that out is pretty bang on because he can't even figure out the coach is the problem.

• I have so much respect for Rust. He loves the organization and takes the losing personally.

When we spoke after the game, the intensity on his face still visible, he told me what he believes needs to be done to get out of this funk.

“What we have to do is we have to stay together,” Rust said. “When things are going sh—y, it’s easy to point fingers and place blame. We’re going to stay together. We have to. You can’t win in this league if you don’t. We have to fight our way out of this. We have to fight. This sucks. This sucks a lot. It’s not something I’m very used to. I’d like to get this thing going in the right direction. Right now.”

Bryan Rust has become such a f***ing annoying piece of shit and Sullivan dick rider, of course a moron like Yohe loves him.


Also, lmao...



"deserves some blame, but I won't write about it..."

Jesse doesn't even say shit, just whines about Jarry and other random dumb shit, apparently no whining about tonight's goaltending or anything of that sort, Rossi just wanked to Sid's goals and how he stands in history, ignoring any real discussion. What a bunch of f***ing sackless twats.

 

[Pancakes]

"deserves some blame, but I won't write about it..."

They would all rather defend their own access than write hard truths. Haase did the same thing in her article for DK's site.

How do you fix the issue of a mindset, especially on a team with as many Hockey Hall of Fame players as it does? Trades could certainly provide that jolt. If this continues long enough, obviously one has to take a look at the head coach. But there's nothing stopping the players already in that room from finding the answer themselves.

If this continues long enough?! Taylor, I know you've been writing about this team for years now. Don't try to tell me that this (the Penguins disappointing under Sullivan) has not been something that has been going on for years now.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yohe is a remora. Mods, you’ll find about what that is when we go to the aquarium as part of the annual 2nd grade class trip.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

They would all rather defend their own access than write hard truths. Haase did the same thing in her article for DK's site.


If this continues long enough?! Taylor, I know you've been writing about this team for years now. Don't try to tell me that this (the Penguins disappointing under Sullivan) has not been something that has been going on for years now.

Its also weird how Ned keeps getting the benefit of the doubt when he's been one of the worst goalies, if its super easy for them to shit all over Jarry, Ned being also garbage shouldn't be that f***ing hard either, there's enough there in his stats to say he's also f***ing awful.

A lot of this team is f***ing awful, there's very little that's good. Usually when this much is awful, you point at the coach. Unless you're the Pens, then you blame everyone else and shield the coach from negative criticism and then shift the focus to Dubas.

 

[Ryder71]

It's been bad for 4 seasons in a row.

Nothing will begin to even get better if Sullivan is the head coach.

He needs to be fired now and should not be in charge of a rebuild of even the tank of a season.

Sullivan needs to be humbled! As does the core who insisted he stay! Letem rot! In the process plummet down the standings.

Now, If Sid uses his brain for once, maybe he'll ask out to go play in COL with Nate and we could get some assets as a result. We'd have to retain, but maybe something could be worked out. Make Sid miserable as much as possible! Force him out!

It hasn't been ''bad'' for four years, we've been mediocre. You're just now experiencing ''bad'', and it's gonna get worse.

 

[Zbynek]

I went from watching the games in entirety, to just watching the highlights, to just reading the HFboards doom recap. No more time for this crap.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Dubas saying the team isn't contender and is trying to build up picks, not panicked about the team right now, etc - that shit flies if you're using a lot of youth and you're near the bottom. But when you're a team that is mostly a veteran squad and the youth aren't being used with Sid or Geno and just on the third or fourth lines, you're not building shit.

You're just ignoring the fact that the coach is not the one you should have in this situation at all and for so many other reasons. He can't develop shit and if he can't do that he's no good but he can't even use vets properly either.

It's maddening seeing the excuses Sullivan gets when he's the top reason they suck.

 

[AlphaMikeFoxtrots]

They haven't developed any players under Sullivan's tenure. Keeping him around because "nobody can fix it" makes no sense.

If the roster is as bad as the performance you are going to get high draft position regardless of coach and with Sullivan your young players are going to get 6 minutes a night so Matt Nieto and Kevin Hayes can fart around doing nothing.

I saw someone mention they thought FSG wants him for the rebuild, which is a godawful f***ing idea. That *requires* a youth movement, and with him it apparently only works if he bonds with them in the A, first. Since "his" WBS boys + Guentzel, all he's done is chase off serviceable young players with some upside and fall in love with serviceable plugs who can't buy a goal.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Crosby is in that phase in his career, where he should accept a trade to play 3rd line center for a power house. He is no 1st liner anymore.

Woah, show a little respect. He had 94 points last year. He's got 21 in 23 this year. Would be more with a competent coach who doesn't demoralize the room.
He got stripped of Guentzel and has been given non L1 quality wingers. Letang has disappeared on him too.
He's still very capable of 80+ points.

Name as many teams with two Centers on that level as you can.
Edmonton and Florida, sure. But that's only when they use Reinhart and Drai at C, which they usually don't.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, if we are doing a rebuild, we're doing a shit job clearing out old deadweight, providing opportunities for young players to develop and/or improve their stock around the league so we can move them for more essential picks or parts.

Tanking for a low 1st is only one relatively part of the equation.

If we're not doing a rebuild, Dubas is a f***ing quack.