Utah is number 1 in increased value.

Coyotedroppings

Registered User
Jul 16, 2017
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I'm quite certain that every Boston fans left the Delta Center with all their digits intact, we need no more proof as to where the real market is. :sarcasm:
 
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TheLegend

"Just say it 3 times..."
Aug 30, 2009
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Buzzing BoH
No different than when the Clippers' value nearly doubles when Steve Ballmer comes along and he didn't even move the team.

Just like Winnipeg going from $170 million to over a billion now.

Wonder how you would go about declaring AZ worth $675 million when they literally just sold for a billion?

$675 million with no arena.
 

Arizonatah Coyetis

Formerly Kai Yo T
Nov 27, 2006
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Scottsdale, AZ
It was 1 billion for Mureulo and $200 million to League

Yes. The NHL charged Smith $1.2B (expansion fee sized sum of money.) Gave $1B to convince Meruelo to go away and kept $200M for themselves.

This is how I understood it, at least:

The NHL preferred for Meruelo to build an arena, things to work out in Phoenix AND get $1B+ in expansion fees from Smith in Utah. It just didn't work out that way and they managed to solve a major problem and still get $200M in fees. The NHL has said that it considers Utah an expansion team, not a relocation. AM made out like a hawk in being convinced to sell, still doesn't mean the team was worth that much or that an appraiser would say the NHL paid what the going rate was. They overpaid to convince Meruelo to go away. An anomoly, not real value.

(Again that's how I understand it, anyways. Reserve the right to be wrong :laugh:)
 

Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
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Yes. The NHL charged Smith $1.2B (expansion fee sized sum of money.) Gave $1B to convince Meruelo to go away and kept $200M for themselves.

This is how I understood it, at least:

The NHL preferred for Meruelo to build an arena, things to work out in Phoenix AND get $1B+ in expansion fees from Smith in Utah. It just didn't work out that way and they managed to solve a major problem and still get $200M in fees. The NHL has said that it considers Utah an expansion team, not a relocation. AM made out like a hawk in being convinced to sell, still doesn't mean the team was worth that much or that an appraiser would say the NHL paid what the going rate was. They overpaid to convince Meruelo to go away. An anomoly, not real value.

(Again that's how I understand it, anyways. Reserve the right to be wrong :laugh:)
The only way to ever know the value of a sold item is the price it sold for....not sure how anyone can argue with that??
 

Arizonatah Coyetis

Formerly Kai Yo T
Nov 27, 2006
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The only way to ever know the value of a sold item is the price it sold for....not sure how anyone can argue with that??

If you and your neighbor have identical houses and he sells his for two times its appraised value because someone was either stupid or desperate and was willing to drastically overpay, does that mean your house is now worth twice as much or that that same house could turn around and re-sell for anything close to what he paid for it?

No. It's an anomaly and a severe overpayment. Just how I see it.

I can see your point though. If you're dying of thirst and the merchant only has one bottle of water left and increases the cost from $1 to $5 the water IS all of a sudden worth $5 even if only temporarily :laugh:
 
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Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
11,431
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If you and your neighbor have identical houses and he sells his for two times its appraised value because someone was either stupid or desperate and was willing to drastically overpay, does that mean your house is now worth twice as much or that that same house could turn around and re-sell for anything close to what he paid for it?

No. It's an anomaly and a severe overpayment. Just how I see it.

I can see your point though. If you're dying of thirst and the merchant only has one bottle of water left and increases the cost from $1 to $5 the water IS all of a sudden worth $5 even if only temporarily :laugh:
It means nothing for my house but it sure as shit means his house was worth 2 times its appraised value. The value of any asset is what someone will pay for it and for the Coyotes that is clearly $1 billion.

Probably just a coincidence that Utah is worth the same $1.2 billion Smith spent to get the team hey????
 

Arizonatah Coyetis

Formerly Kai Yo T
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It means nothing for my house but it sure as shit means his house was worth 2 times its appraised value. The value of any asset is what someone will pay for it and for the Coyotes that is clearly $1 billion.

Probably just a coincidence that Utah is worth the same $1.2 billion Smith spent to get the team hey????

I agree. But it doesn't mean that property value doesn't correct itself the next time around. Meruelo was paid $1B though. So like I said, I see your point. But the media, analysts, and whoever's are calling it differently. I'm mostly just trying to rationalize how they seem to be looking at it.
 
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Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
11,431
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I agree. But it doesn't mean that property value doesn't correct itself the next time around. Meruelo was paid $1B though. So like I said, I see your point. But the media, analysts, and whoever's are calling it differently. I'm mostly just trying to rationalize how they seem to be looking at it.
Values change, that isn't news. But you can't really put a value on something for not much more than half what it sold for half a year ago. Lastvtear's valuation for the Coyotes has proven to be incorrect by a large amount.
 

Arizonatah Coyetis

Formerly Kai Yo T
Nov 27, 2006
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Scottsdale, AZ
Values change, that isn't news. But you can't really put a value on something for not much more than half what it sold for half a year ago. Lastvtear's valuation for the Coyotes has proven to be incorrect by a large amount.

Maybe. But theoretically, how does the term "overpayment" even exist if the sale price is always considered the real value of the item purchased? Or "paid a premium" or "got ripped off" or "bad deal?"

All terms for someone that willingly paid the price but usually shouldn't have because it's not worth it.
 
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Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
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Maybe. But how does the term "overpayment" even exist if the sale price is always considered the real value of the item purchased? Or "paid a premium" or "got ripped off" or a "bad deal?"
Those terms are all irrelevant to value of an asset. The value is simply what someone is willing to pay, full stop. Me thinking $100 for a ticket to a hockey game is nuts does not make the value of that ticket anything when 11,000 people willing pay that rate.
 
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Arizonatah Coyetis

Formerly Kai Yo T
Nov 27, 2006
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Scottsdale, AZ
Those terms are all irrelevant to value of an asset. The value is simply what someone is willing to pay, full stop. Me thinking $100 for a ticket to a hockey game is nuts does not make the value of that ticket anything when 11,000 people willing pay that rate.

The NHL was out of options. More like hostage money than fair value or worth IMO. Here's another term that applies to AM, "made out like a bandit!"
 
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Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
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The NHL was out of options. More like hostage money than fair value or worth IMO. Here's another term that applies to AM, "made out like a bandit!"
I don't think the article was about about fair value or any other description was. It was simply about the value of an asset and nothing else really matters when you have an actual sale price for that asset. How the value can be anything but the actual price someone paid is really not debatable? If you get your house appraised at $500K and put it on the market with the only offer you ever receive is $400K the value of your house certainly isn't $500K. If you get an offer of $600K the value certainly isn't $500K.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,655
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The league owners essentially made 200 million for themselves by changing the unitforms on one team.

Fun fact.... Meruelo came away with probably 200 million himself.
How did you come up with that number for Meruelo?
 

Arizonatah Coyetis

Formerly Kai Yo T
Nov 27, 2006
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Scottsdale, AZ
I don't think the article was about about fair value or any other description was. It was simply about the value of an asset and nothing else really matters when you have an actual sale price for that asset. How the value can be anything but the actual price someone paid is really not debatable? If you get your house appraised at $500K and put it on the market with the only offer you ever receive is $400K the value of your house certainly isn't $500K. If you get an offer of $600K the value certainly isn't $500K.

You're right. I get it. I just can't handle the truth in this scenario. Hate it.

I got caught up playing devil's advocate because I hate Meruelo and I don't think he deserved all that money but got it because he had the NHL between a rock and a hard place.

A bit of denial maybe.
 

Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
11,431
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You're right. I get it. I just can't handle the truth in this scenario. Hate it.

I got caught up playing devil's advocate because I hate Meruelo and I don't think he deserved all that money but got it because he had the NHL between a rock and a hard place.

A bit of denial maybe.
That guy went from hero to zero fairly quickly and ultimately to the end of the Coyotes. Kinda wonder if Betman kinda forced the whole deal with his public proclamation that they couldn't stay in Glendale?? Either was Meruelo was a slimeball and unfortunately it paid of for him.
 
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cobra427

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May 6, 2012
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That guy went from hero to zero fairly quickly and ultimately to the end of the Coyotes. Kinda wonder if Betman kinda forced the whole deal with his public proclamation that they couldn't stay in Glendale?? Either was Meruelo was a slimeball and unfortunately it paid of for him.
Murello tried for years to make it work in AZ, I don't think he is slimy. He purchased a distressed asset at a time when franchise values were increasing in value yearly. He weathered losses which turned out to be not much versus the exit price. Smart business man, buy low, sell high. Selling the team to another market was never plan A.
 
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Arizonatah Coyetis

Formerly Kai Yo T
Nov 27, 2006
3,922
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Scottsdale, AZ
Murello tried for years to make it work in AZ, I don't think he is slimy. He purchased a distressed asset at a time when franchise values were increasing in value yearly. He weathered losses which turned out to be not much versus the exit price. Smart business man, buy low, sell high. Selling the team to another market was never plan A.

I don't think I would put him in the slime category either. I'm just bothered by how he did approach things and always seemed to come up short of the effort required to get things done. I just eventually got the sense that he wasn't serious enough, too arrogant, or lacked the social skills to pull it off no matter what his real intent was.

I don't think he planned for this ending but I do feel that it's mostly his fault it got to it. (Edit: With the help of his kid who was in way over his head due to nepotism.)

That's what I resent.
 

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