Value of: UTAH #6

[Prairie Habs]

Dude, throwing more and more assets at the wall, hoping for something to stick, won't work.

A while back, Debrincat went for #7, if you're looking at pick #6, assume the cost is a similar caliber player. For a pick in particular, there's no reason to move it for a package. At the most, if the team owning the pick doesn't like the available options on the board, they'll trade down to accumulate assets and likely pick the same guy they thought was a reach at #6.

And, even more recently, debrincat went for #25, a 4th, a b tier D prospect, and a 1 year cap dump. If that holds the value of debrincat, and he holds the value of #7, we'll trade:

#26
2024 4th
Struble
Armia

I'm not sure that's a better package than the one that had 2 1sts and a 60 point dman, but this is your comparable we're using.

 

[JKG33]

And, even more recently, debrincat went for #25, a 4th, a b tier D prospect, and a 1 year cap dump. If that holds the value of debrincat, and he holds the value of #7, we'll trade:

#26
2024 4th
Struble
Armia

I'm not sure that's a better package than the one that had 2 1sts and a 60 point dman, but this is your comparable we're using.

That's a farce and you know it. Ottawa overpaid in the first place and then grossly mismanaged the situation while the player was coming off a down year.

 

[pth2]

And, even more recently, debrincat went for #25, a 4th, a b tier D prospect, and a 1 year cap dump. If that holds the value of debrincat, and he holds the value of #7, we'll trade:

#26
2024 4th
Struble
Armia

I'm not sure that's a better package than the one that had 2 1sts and a 60 point dman, but this is your comparable we're using.

.... my point was:
A) if you put #6 on the market, you'll have some sexy offers.
B) If you have a guy who's shown an unwillingness to extend and just isn't a good fit in a city, you won't get quite the same offers.

If Utah puts #6 on the market, it'll be more like situation A than B.

 

[pth2]

...If that holds the value of debrincat, and he holds the value of #7,....

Also, with one year separating the two events, and changing circumstances, I don't think transitive properties apply to trade values.

 

[Guess]

"Let me make you understand.." oh man I'd love it if you were running a rival company or team with that piss poor attitude.

You know where you can get Matheson? In UFA, where there's at least 6-8 D men as good as or better than him. There's probably a dozen comparable or better players to Dvorak available in UFA or the trade market too. And yes, late 1sts are spare change, teams throw them around for rentals all the time. There's a reason bad teams like Montreal have a collection of them.

Here you are insinuating I'm childish, yet you're throwing a temper tantrum because someone called bullshit on your trade proposal

Matheson is actually one of the best D in the league for his value, he gets more points per dollar than any player, including Quinn Hughes and Makar.

He's an amazing skater and I don't think that's going to suddenly change for a few years. I wouldn't trade him for anything but a top half first round pick, brings more value to the team. I don't think Hughes will trade him right now though, so it's a moot point anyways, just wanted to point out that you're undervaluing him and there aren't "6-8 UFA players like him every year", that's completely ridiculous.

 

[dgibb10]

well no one is giving prime asset for a draft pick ,, you have to bet a bit

Matheson taking the first spot on the left
Dvorak taking the third line center
+ 2 first picks ....

A top 6 pick has been traded 1 single time in the salary cap era, and it was a trade down from 5 to 7

 

[JKG33]

Matheson is actually one of the best D in the league for his value, he gets more points per dollar than any player, including Quinn Hughes and Makar.

He's an amazing skater and I don't think that's going to suddenly change for a few years. I wouldn't trade him for anything but a top half first round pick, brings more value to the team. I don't think Hughes will trade him right now though, so it's a moot point anyways, just wanted to point out that you're undervaluing him and there aren't "6-8 UFA players like him every year", that's completely ridiculous.

If you're going to quote me at least do it properly. Nowhere did I say every year. But in this years crop, yes there absolutely is. If you're telling me I could get a Sjkei, Pesce, Walker, Tanev, Montour, Roy, Zadorov, for just the cost of their contract, or trade the 6th overall for Matheson and a package of unneeded miscellaneous pieces, I'm taking the UFA without thinking twice. Especially if I'm Utah where Matheson's good contract holds little value due to an abundance of cap space. There's also trade options like Chychrun or Provorov out there too, who would undoubtedly would cost less than the 6th pick.

I like Matheson a lot more than your average non Habs fan. But he's a #3 on a good team, and at his age most certainly isn't the centerpiece in a trade for a top pick

 

[Prairie Habs]

Also, with one year separating the two events, and changing circumstances, I don't think transitive properties apply to trade values.

You quoted my post twice, so I assume you've read it and know it wasn't a serious proposal. My entire point was that circumstances aren't always equal and value is maleable.

The confusng part is YOU were the one who brought debrincat as a comparable value. So, you think ottawa trading for debrincat trade from 2022 is a good bar for a utah trade in 2024, but Ottawa trading away debrincat in 2023 has no bearing because it's a year apart and a different situation? Well, the trade you wanted to compare was 2 years apart and an even further apart set of circumstances, so why bring it up?

 

[EXTRAS]

I'm not a canadiens fan but I don't think that offer is so bad if Utah is trading 6 to get better. Matheson improves your defense for the now, and a 25th+26th have a pick value of around 11th if you package them to move up. So maybe ask for a replacement of dvorak with another piece...a 2nd? And I think that would be a solid offer.

 

[Bizz]

14OA+Vegas's 2025 1st (top 15 protected, assuming we can protect another team's traded pick)

if not then,

14OA+33OA+Borderleau

If you're hellbent on an NHL-ready Defenseman the best we could possibly give up is Ferraro, who isn't super exciting but is young, injury free, and can play 28 minutes a night no problem, in place of the 33OA.

at 14th overall Yakemchuk would probably still be available and you get a young D capable of playing big minutes and a young middle 6 center capable of playing wing. The Sharks pretty much guarantee at least one of Buium or Parekh, both of which would fit their rebuild window.

 

[samabam]

I'm not a canadiens fan but I don't think that offer is so bad if Utah is trading 6 to get better. Matheson improves your defense for the now, and a 25th+26th have a pick value of around 11th if you package them to move up. So maybe ask for a replacement of dvorak with another piece...a 2nd? And I think that would be a solid offer.

I doubt that Utah is interested in trading #6 for multiple assets - they have those in spades

 

[Bizz]

I doubt that Utah is interested in trading #6 for multiple assets - they have those in spades

OP's ask was for multiple assets, so we're going off of that.

 

[samabam]

OP's ask was for multiple assets, so we're going off of that.

Really? I read that 6 is available for the right price - and I personally doubt that multiple assets are the right price but feel free to disagree

 

[pth2]

You quoted my post twice, so I assume you've read it and know it wasn't a serious proposal. My entire point was that circumstances aren't always equal and value is maleable.

The confusng part is YOU were the one who brought debrincat as a comparable value. So, you think ottawa trading for debrincat trade from 2022 is a good bar for a utah trade in 2024, but Ottawa trading away debrincat in 2023 has no bearing because it's a year apart and a different situation? Well, the trade you wanted to compare was 2 years apart and an even further apart set of circumstances, so why bring it up?

One of those trades involved trading away a pick #7, and we're discussing a team trading pick #6.

 

[JKG33]

OP's ask was for multiple assets, so we're going off of that.

I mean OP "asked" that seemingly so that he could have a place for his awful Habs offer. Seems like a Habs fan to me

 

[Jakey53]

let me make you understand a point.
When a team trades a high pick is to get better now ..
you want some players like Matheson, yes is 30 , this guy's got a other 6 years to go.
Dvorak is in his prime at 28 .. his a high end 3rd center.
And 2 first pick is spare change wtf ....

Please go to bed now it's getting late

I doubt very much BA would entertain such a deal. Utah still needs high end talent. BA might trade down, but probably only a couple of spots, IF he can get a young good player or players in the deal to go along with the pick.

 

[Lockin17]

I doubt very much BA would entertain such a deal. Utah still needs high end talent. BA might trade down, but probably only a couple of spots, IF he can get a young good player or players in the deal to go along with the pick.

Well this is based on Utah putting their #6 on the table to be more competitive next year .. this is what this thread is about.
So they need establish good player with good contract.
But i am sure they still wants to pick in the first round as well.

 

[Schemp]

Guhle and Beck...

 

[Lockin17]

Guhle and Beck...

Guhle is worth more alone ,,, gezzz

 

[DJN21]

Matheson is actually one of the best D in the league for his value, he gets more points per dollar than any player, including Quinn Hughes and Makar.

He's an amazing skater and I don't think that's going to suddenly change for a few years. I wouldn't trade him for anything but a top half first round pick, brings more value to the team. I don't think Hughes will trade him right now though, so it's a moot point anyways, just wanted to point out that you're undervaluing him and there aren't "6-8 UFA players like him every year", that's completely ridiculous.

Matheson....is that you?!

 

[Schemp]

Guhle is worth more alone ,,, gezzz

I'd pick Dickinson 's ELC over Guhle, homer!

 

[Schemp]

14OA+Vegas's 2025 1st (top 15 protected, assuming we can protect another team's traded pick)

if not then,

14OA+33OA+Borderleau

If you're hellbent on an NHL-ready Defenseman the best we could possibly give up is Ferraro, who isn't super exciting but is young, injury free, and can play 28 minutes a night no problem, in place of the 33OA.

at 14th overall Yakemchuk would probably still be available and you get a young D capable of playing big minutes and a young middle 6 center capable of playing wing. The Sharks pretty much guarantee at least one of Buium or Parekh, both of which would fit their rebuild window.

I very much doubt Yakemchuk will be there at 14th and it wouldn't make sense to draft for SJ and hope he is available then.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Utah #6 for Travis Saheim plus?

 

[Schemp]

Utah #6 for Travis Saheim plus?

NTC

 

[blackjackmulligan]

NTC

Lets assume he waives it.