USHL teams to join OHL?

[jtechkid]

thats my argument do you really think local CHL teams with local fan base will have 6-8 USA players on their team taking spots from Canada kids . I dont see it - they want to grab top 40-60 USA players and thats it .

 

[Bjorn Le]

Muskegon and Youngstown technically work given that they're not much farther than Erie/Soo/Flint/Saginaw but would probably need a total OHL realignment to be a success (and maybe some new teams in Ontario to balance out).

Chicago and Green Bay be very difficult to make work without flights and a lot of missed school for the 16/17 year olds on Chicago/Green Bay.

 

[Kingpin794]

thats my argument do you really think local CHL teams with local fan base will have 6-8 USA players on their team taking spots from Canada kids . I dont see it - they want to grab top 40-60 USA players and thats it .

And that’s also going to vary from team to team. High end teams (London, Halifax, etc) will get more and the American team should have no problem get more Americans. But your Sudbury’s or Prince George might not land more than usual.

 

[jtechkid]

Muskegon and Youngstown technically work given that they're not much farther than Erie/Soo/Flint/Saginaw but would probably need a total OHL realignment to be a success (and maybe some new teams in Ontario to balance out).

Chicago and Green Bay be very difficult to make work without flights and a lot of missed school for the 16/17 year olds on Chicago/Green Bay.

Why would the CHL dilute their product right at the beginning of the process- ridiculous dumb decision and its not happening . Im sure couple USHL teams have called why woudnt they ? zero chance happening . Steel Owner sold at a great time and ushl team prices are falling fast .Poor Blackhawks cant catch a break lol. You could make a really low ball bid for Ushl 30-40 cent of previous value in hoping ushl gets a drop off but not as dramatic as feared.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Why would the CHL dilute their product right at the beginning of the process- ridiculous dumb decision and its not happening . Im sure couple USHL teams have called why woudnt they ? zero chance happening .

It depends. If the CHL grants waivers for USHL players to stay on their teams regardless of who drafted them in the CHL or what territory they are assigned to, it doesn't really dilute the product. Muskegon and Youngstown won't be contenders but coming with their own players won't affect the product. If they need to do an expansion draft it's not going to happen but an expansion draft is not going to happen anyways; no way would the elite OHL teams agree to it.

 

[Boonk]

In a place like Chicago metro, there are options though. The NOW Arena in Hoffman Estates for instance is where a G-League Basketball team plays and is only 30 minutes north of where they play now.

If the OHL demographics were to mirror NHL demographics because all the Americans in the region want to play in the OHL instead of the USNTDP or USHL, about 200 Canadian kids are getting cut from the OHL, and they'll need a place to play. It's likely the USHL exists in some capacity regardless of who slots where.

That would make the most sense then, its more than adequate size and location for OHL hockey and they'd still be able to use Fox Valley as their main practice facility

 

[Blue and Green]

If the OHL demographics were to mirror NHL demographics because all the Americans in the region want to play in the OHL instead of the USNTDP or USHL, about 200 Canadian kids are getting cut from the OHL, and they'll need a place to play. It's likely the USHL exists in some capacity regardless of who slots where.

Using the NHL ratio of Canadians to Americans for the ~485 non-import OHL roster spots would result in almost exactly 200 Americans. There are already about 35 Americans on OHL rosters so the displacement of Canadians would be about 165 using that ratio. And realistically, a lot of Americans who are likely to land at or near the bottom of OHL rosters would stay where they are so the displacement would almost certainly be considerably less.

CHLers being eligible for NCAA is going to result in some significant changes but there's still going to be both demand and supply for quality junior hockey in the USA, everybody knows that.

thats my argument do you really think local CHL teams with local fan base will have 6-8 USA players on their team taking spots from Canada kids . I dont see it - they want to grab top 40-60 USA players and thats it .

A few additional Americans on the roster wouldn't turn off Canadian CHL fans. Canadians didn't lose interest in the NHL as the percentage of Canadian players dropped from 90% five decades ago to 40% now. BCHL has plenty of American players. Americans support CHL teams with rosters that are vast majority Canadian.

There are easily more than 40-60 Americans playing in other junior leagues that CHL teams would happily take if they were simply free to do so. There are currently 60 CHL teams so even an additional 180 Americans would only be an average of three more per team, and right now the vast majority of CHL teams have somewhere from zero to three Americans on their rosters.

 

[Blue and Green]

It depends. If the CHL grants waivers for USHL players to stay on their teams regardless of who drafted them in the CHL or what territory they are assigned to, it doesn't really dilute the product. Muskegon and Youngstown won't be contenders but coming with their own players won't affect the product. If they need to do an expansion draft it's not going to happen but an expansion draft is not going to happen anyways; no way would the elite OHL teams agree to it.

Almost no chance that WHL and Q would agree to let OHL have players from their territories, and also can't see OHL teams allowing drafted players' rights to be handed over without compensation. Perhaps a window for those USHL franchises to sign undrafted OHL-eligible players who were on their rosters from the beginning of this season.

The last CHL expansion was in the WHL in 2009 and they used an expansion draft.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Any chance of Thunder Bay getting an expansion team? Long distance but it has the population.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Almost no chance that WHL and Q would agree to let OHL have players from their territories, and also can't see OHL teams allowing drafted players' rights to be handed over without compensation. Perhaps a window for those USHL franchises to sign undrafted OHL-eligible players who were on their rosters from the beginning of this season.

The last CHL expansion was in the WHL in 2009 and they used an expansion draft.

This is not the same calculus. By taking USHL teams and their players, the leagues/teams “losing” players—and I say losing very loosely as if they don’t get those players sometime this year, they aren’t getting them at all—are benefitting overall from a less attractive USHL. It is also a one-time deal and doesn’t affect their current clubs. The CHL can also provide supplemental draft picks to teams who “lost” their drafted players.

An expansion draft on the other hand does affect them. This isn’t the NHL; most teams don’t have a surplus of spare older players to give up in an expansion draft. London, Kitchener, Windsor, Ottawa, etc. will not be willing to give their current players to Muskegon and Youngstown. It’s also unlikely that the CHL would force dozens of players off to small U.S. cities they’ve never heard of given concerns about the enforceability of CHL contracts given the NCAA rule change. So expansion draft is a total non-starter. It will never happen again in the CHL.

 

[Hinterland]

USA Hockey denies OHL permission to add two USHL teams

The OHL approved an aggressive expansion plan earlier this season, but it appears one of the league's ideas on that front has hit a hurdle.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Bjindaho]

This is not the same calculus. By taking USHL teams and their players, the leagues/teams “losing” players—and I say losing very loosely as if they don’t get those players sometime this year, they aren’t getting them at all—are benefitting overall from a less attractive USHL. It is also a one-time deal and doesn’t affect their current clubs. The CHL can also provide supplemental draft picks to teams who “lost” their drafted players.

An expansion draft on the other hand does affect them. This isn’t the NHL; most teams don’t have a surplus of spare older players to give up in an expansion draft. London, Kitchener, Windsor, Ottawa, etc. will not be willing to give their current players to Muskegon and Youngstown. It’s also unlikely that the CHL would force dozens of players off to small U.S. cities they’ve never heard of given concerns about the enforceability of CHL contracts given the NCAA rule change. So expansion draft is a total non-starter. It will never happen again in the CHL.

This makes no sense. The CHL has rules about regional eligibility. Why would they be ignored to bring in franchises to the OHL? And how would a supplemental pick replace Tynan Lawrence?

An OHL team can't simply steal players from other regions much like a QMJHL or WHL team can't steal players from Ontario.

 

[Chuck Downie]

Any chance of Thunder Bay getting an expansion team? Long distance but it has the population.

I think if the OHL was split into Northern and Southern Ontario, then for sure. Otherwise it is too far away from the Southern teams. And if you asked someone in Toronto to split Ontario up, Muskoka would be considered North

Edit: But on the other hand, I was just at Rouyn Noranda vs Charlottetown the other day. That's 2,000+ kms between the cities.

 

[JiggsNY]

Makes sense from USAH pov, can't let top teams leave or your entire junior league is in trouble. Didn't know they had the ability to deny permission of individual teams though.

 

[Bjorn Le]

This makes no sense. The CHL has rules about regional eligibility. Why would they be ignored to bring in franchises to the OHL? And how would a supplemental pick replace Tynan Lawrence?

An OHL team can't simply steal players from other regions much like a QMJHL or WHL team can't steal players from Ontario.

Perhaps you missed it, but if you read you’ll notice I responded to that in the post you quoted. And if the CHL approved the move (OHL wouldn’t have done so without CHL permission), clearly player rights is a hurdle they could jump over.

 

[Kingpin794]

Makes sense from USAH pov, can't let top teams leave or your entire junior league is in trouble. Didn't know they had the ability to deny permission of individual teams though.

Thing is, these are the only two teams that would bolt for the CHL. OHL isn’t going to take anyone west of Lake Michigan. The WHL isn’t going to take any teams from the plains. The entire league isn’t in danger. Two isolated teams want out.