USA overtaking Canada

[Eye of Ra]

USA will eventually overtake Canada. It's simply a numbers game. Population of 340 million vs 40 million.

Maybe thats why. But how come China and India is so bad at soccer? Its huge there and soccer is not expensive. So its not just about having a large population.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Idk if the USA will overtake Canada but hockey Canada and the nhl need to figure out a way to make hockey cool with non white audiences. Canada demographics changes Dosent look good for hockey

Why doesn’t USA hockey have to do that lol?
Why is that only on Canada to do.
What a weird take.

 

[Korpse]

No need to be sorry.

If memory serves this is before '96, and I think somewhere in the early 90s. It was during a Coach's Corner.

Remember, Cherry was a huge champion for the AHL but more so for junior hockey in Canada. His perspective was well-informed.

Okay 30+ years and this prediction hasn’t come true? Do we give it another 30 years?

 

[Gaud]

I see the swedes and fins overtaking us in 20 years or less.
Their programs are pretty good! A 16th year old can play at the highest levels, unlike the nhl who has cases where hte only options are "back to juniors" or "nhl-ready" with no in betweens.

 

[2014nyr]

This conversation always seems to suggest some permanence if they do. Is it likely, given the population difference, growing availability of resources/higher youth competition levels, and increasing participation that the us at least has a period of time as the unanimous favorite going into best on best tournaments? I’d say yes. Will they be so much better than anyone that they can’t lose any one of them? Almost certainly not. If that time does come, does it mean they won’t be overtaken at some point? Absolutely not.

It’s the same reason when great young teams win a cup and people wonder how they’ll be beaten for the next half decade, but they never win 5 in a row. Obviously the cap is a factor that’s irrelevant for intl. i think the bigger factors are other teams rising, young players emerging, and most importantly, the unquantifiable mental element. When you’re chasing something, you have an idea of the bar you need to meet to get there. When you become the standard and wear the target, it’s nearly impossible to match the hunger of teams chasing you, and be able to raise your standard at or above the rate they are closing in on the one you set. Inevitably the crown is taken. It’s an eternal truth of humanity since the beginning of time for any throne, wealth, or trophy to be claimed.

 

[ITM]

Okay 30+ years and this prediction hasn’t come true? Do we give it another 30 years?

Ah. I see. Well, it’s me that’s sorry for mistaking sarcasm for good faith.

At last reference, Canadian players comprise at present, 41% of the NHL and Americans 29%.

The link below charts Canada’s decrease and America’s increase a little after Cherry’s prediction.

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/canadians-no-longer-majority-
among-nhl-players-192445732.html

So I don’t know how you infer facts in trends in order to come to reasonable conclusions, but…If something was more and is less and is trending towards becoming absolutely less, I’d say that’s another bullseye for Grapes, uncomfortable as that may be.

He didn’t provide a date. But the facts of the trend are unsettling nonetheless.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Maybe thats why. But how come China and India is so bad at soccer? Its huge there and soccer is not expensive. So its not just about having a large population.

China's most popular sport is basketball and they stink at it.

Contrary to somewhat racist assumptions, it has nothing to do with height/poor genetics. They just don't have a great sporting infrastructure for anything that isn't essentially a non-globally competitive, very top-down driven Olympic sport run directly by the government.

India's sporting infrastructure is even worse. Basically non-existent for anything outside of cricket. Pursuing sport is generally frowned upon by higher classes.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Demographic collapse of Canadian licensees is inevitable.

In 40 years, we have already gone from 80 to 40% of Canadian players in the NHL.

Accept reality.

And it hasn't changed who is at the top.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Idk if the USA will overtake Canada but hockey Canada and the nhl need to figure out a way to make hockey cool with non white audiences. Canada demographics changes Dosent look good for hockey

I think this is more of an economic issue than just "Minorities don't like hockey" issue.

If they can afford it, they'll play.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I think this is more of an economic issue than just "Minorities don't like hockey" issue.

If they can afford it, they'll play.

Cultural assimilation question as well. Broader topic outside confines of a hockey board.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

And it hasn't changed who is at the top.

Certainly, but by losing 1 point per year for 40 years, Canada went from a monopoly where Canada crushed the rest of the world to Canada, slightly better than the USA and well below all European nations.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I think this is more of an economic issue than just "Minorities don't like hockey" issue.

If they can afford it, they'll play.

That's not even true. Hispanics and especially Asians love hockey. There are more Hispanic and Asian players on the ice and in the stands than in the NBA and NFL.

The country has very few births, and 2020's youth are less athletic than previous generations. Other European sports attract more attention. Staying focused on a single sport is not sustainable. In European countries where soccer was ultra-dominant, there is the same phenomenon of multipolarization of interests.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

That's not even true. Hispanics and especially Asians love hockey. There are more Hispanic and Asian players on the ice and in the stands than in the NBA and NFL.

I was trying to frame it nicely and not assume he was talking about Black people specifically lol.

 

[strattonius]

If USA wins Gold they're still behind Canada. You look at the % of players representing the sport in the NHL as well as the very top players from each nation and Canada is ahead by a pretty wide margin. People will over-rate the Olympic results but the true ranking of a nation is more based on the development of the sport at the minor-junior levels. It's a difficult and nuanced discussion that shouldn't be calculated by a simple single elimination tournament.

In my opinion the USA needs a generational hockey player, like a Crosby or McDavid, to dominate the sport and be the face of the league. On top of that they need a higher representation in the NHL (smaller margin between themselves and Canada) which would start at the development of the sport at lower ranks.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Certainly, but by losing 1 point per year for 40 years, Canada went from a monopoly where Canada crushed the rest of the world to Canada, slightly better than the USA and well below all European nations.

Did you just say Canada is well below all European nations, or you just worded that badly.

When USA starts winning with some regularity then we can have a conversation, but after 40 years yes the percentages are changing, but the team at the top hasn’t.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

I was trying to frame it nicely and not assume he was talking about Black people specifically lol.

Demographically, it is only 4% of the Canadian population and with the skating aspect, this group does not benefit from athletic superiority over others.

Even so, it's a mistake. Hockey is polarized in metropolitan areas. There are easily 4% African-Canadian players on youth teams.

 

[Sergei Bure]

As for your Meca comment / bait, let me know when Quebec is turning out superstar after superstar like Ontario is. Who was the last great Quebec superstar?

That's why i said that hockey is losing tradition in Quebec, you just made my point...

 

[Fatass]

USA will eventually overtake Canada. It's simply a numbers game. Population of 340 million vs 40 million.

The ratio of population hasn’t changed much in 100 years.

 

[1989]

In small sample sizes upsets can and often do happen.

2\3 of your Holy Trinity couldn't beat a team w\o its #1D and top goal scorer.
A team that on paper shouldn't have needed more than 6 games max to dispose of.

On paper very little separates the US and Canada heading into Milan. More separated Colorado from Dallas and looked what happen. Where were Makar\McKinnon?

You make a good point, but then where are the top-level upsets by the USA?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Certainly, but by losing 1 point per year for 40 years, Canada went from a monopoly where Canada crushed the rest of the world to Canada, slightly better than the USA and well below all European nations.

Well below all European nations? Whatt?

Russia can't even play.

Sweden and Finland aren't on Canada's level.

Swiss aren't even close.

Who are these magical European nations that Canada is below.

 

[McFlash97]

Quebec is the mecca of hockey?

Man Alberta is more of a hockey mecca than Quebec is nowadays. Quebec is no longer a at Ontario, BC, and Albertas league anymore

 

[Kranix]

Man Alberta is more of a hockey mecca than Quebec is nowadays. Quebec is no longer a at Ontario, BC, and Albertas league anymore

Montreal makes sense as sort of the "holiest" city in hockey, the first pro game was played there I believe. There isn't really one city that all hockey fans try to get to though, accept maybe the hockey hall of fame.

 

[Stephen]

Montreal is the Mecca of hockey.

Sure, and the Greater Toronto Area is the Rome of hockey.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

It will take a while considering the cast of characters leading the USA side.

 

[Summer Rose]

Sure, and the Greater Toronto Area is the Rome of hockey.

I actually kind of like this comparison we're doing of comparing hockey hotbeds to historically significant cities. Montreal being Mecca and Toronto being Rome is on point. I'll add some American ones to the flair.

Boston is... Constantinople?
Minnesota is... the Golden Horde? (invasion still pending)