USA overtaking Canada

[ITM]

And in those 30 years it could be argued that Canada increased its gap over the USA. Canada has multiple wins in best in best since that last American win. Other Euro countries have wins. While the USA has none. The USA produces a lot of good players but lacks the elite players other countries have. Other than Patrick Kane was there an elite difference maker from the US since the 90’s? Yet during that time Canada and several European nations have produced a lot.

Not arguing championships per se and I believe Cherry - who always brought to bear that Hockey Canada was underserving youth development - emphasized that eventually, American developmental programs would produce more players while not suffering in quality.

I think Finland's a great example of how a country that crafts a forward-seeking plan and then commits to pushing resources behind it can rise to the top of international programs.

I'm not sure what percentage of the league is still a Canadian majority, but I suspect the success Cherry anticipated can be measured in Canada's representative decrease and America's increase.

Perhaps others can supply the percentage breakdown, but I think the U.S. is at the very least, incrementally increasing and Canada's share of the pie continuously, albeit incrementally, decreasing.

So, I don't know if it can be argued if Canada has definitively increased its gap over the U.S. wholesale.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Nor a chance.

There are about 40 million Canadians and 400 million Americans.

If they could do it, they would have done it by now.

They can't and they NEVER will.

And neither will Russia, Sweden, Finland or anyone else.

Canada is and will ALWAYS be #1.

Accept reality.

Demographic collapse of Canadian licensees is inevitable.

In 40 years, we have already gone from 80 to 40% of Canadian players in the NHL.

Accept reality.

 

[ITM]

I’m sorry he predicted this how long ago?

No need to be sorry.

If memory serves this is before '96, and I think somewhere in the early 90s. It was during a Coach's Corner.

Remember, Cherry was a huge champion for the AHL but more so for junior hockey in Canada. His perspective was well-informed.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Demographic collapse of Canadian licensees is inevitable.
In 40 years, we have already gone from 80 to 40% of Canadian players in the NHL.
Accept reality.

Canadians will have to wait until the US starts winning men’s best on best, with regularity, currently they aren’t winning those tournaments.

 

[HockeyVirus]

History + Passion + 24 Cups make Montreal the Mecca of hockey. And it’s not just me who makes that allusion.

The Bell Centre: The Mecca of Hockey

The Coyotes are set to take on the Canadiens tonight. Coyotes' players opened up about the historical atmosphere that the Bell Centre provides.

thehockeynews.com

A Habs fan on a pilgrimage to hockey mecca Montreal | Globalnews.ca

It’s springtime in Montreal. The snow is gone, the flowers are blooming. But, for Montreal Canadiens fans, spring means only one thing: Playoff hockey.

globalnews.ca

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3713245

HOT HAND

"Montreal is the Mecca of hockey. Everybody in this city thinks he knows the game." First there was the fire wagon. Fire wagon hockey was the swirling,

vault.si.com

Toronto has history and passion as well. All you are trying to say is the team with the most cups is the mecca which is not even what it means. But you have self professed to being an extreme Leaf hater several times in the playoff threads, so let's not waste our time and enjoy our Tuesday

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

once McDavid retires its Joever for Canada

 

[Fatass]

Not arguing championships per se and I believe Cherry - who always brought to bear that Hockey Canada was underserving youth development - emphasized that eventually, American developmental programs would produce more players while not suffering in quality.

I think Finland's a great example of how a country that crafts a forward-seeking plan and then commits to pushing resources behind it can rise to the top of international programs.

I'm not sure what percentage of the league is still a Canadian majority, but I suspect the success Cherry anticipated can be measured in Canada's representative decrease and America's increase.

Perhaps others can supply the percentage breakdown, but I think the U.S. is at the very least, incrementally increasing and Canada's share of the pie continuously, albeit incrementally, decreasing.

So, I don't know if it can be argued if Canada has definitively increased its gap over the U.S. wholesale.

Cherry was great. And he was correct that the % of US born NHLers would increase. But it’s the elite superstars who ultimately make the difference in best on best. The US has several sports that attract its best athletes. Canada has hockey. Finland, Sweden, Russia have soccer (I’m thinking) taking some top athletes but hockey is likely second. The USA needs to get the elite athletes into hockey at a level that produces several in the nhl before it will surpass Canada, and a couple Euro nations for being the best.
For depth, I could see an argument made for the USA. But not for the cream and it’s the cream that wins the best in best.

 

[Fatass]

Toronto has history and passion as well. All you are trying to say is the team with the most cups is the mecca which is not even what it means. But you have self professed to being an extreme Leaf hater several times in the playoff threads, so let's not waste our time and enjoy our Tuesday

As a young boy I was a Leaf fan. Dave Keon is still my all time favourite player. I agree Toronto is the centre of hockey. But Mecca means something different.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Accept reality.

Winning gold against the American golden generation without 3 of the top 4 defenceman, winning back to back u18s with quasi B teams, half strength WHC17 teams dominating the NTDP, 20 CHL players picked in the first round this year and 18 or so next year, Bédard into Celebrini into Schaefer into McKenna into Dupont into Schultz, I would say that’s a reality that’s pretty easy to accept

 

[Eye of Ra]

Is this serious?

Says the guy who think Esa Lindell is better than Dahlin, Brodin, Forsling and Hedman.

How is Anton Lundell, a guy who never reached 50 points in a season better than Bratt who is above PPG?

How is Hintz who has 67 points better than Nylander that has 84 points?

Are you for real?

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Winning gold against the American golden generation without 3 of the top 4 defenceman, winning back to back u18s with quasi B teams, half strength WHC17 teams dominating the NTDP, 20 CHL players picked in the first round this year and 18 or so next year, Bédard into Celebrini into Schaefer into McKenna into Dupont into Schultz, I would say that’s a reality that’s pretty easy to accept

Strangely you are not talking about a U20 tournament without a back to back medal with Russia missing.

6 years ago, you would have said Patrick into Lafreniere into Byfield into Power into Wright into Bedard.

These recent cases would have rather called to be cautious. The generational Canadian talent that appears every year has become a joke on the site.

And above all the question of following generations arises.

From what I have seen of the first international tournaments involving the 2011/2014 generation, USA clearly outperforms Canada.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Says the guy who think Lindell is better than Dahlin, Brodin and Hedman.

How is Lundell, a guy who never reached 50 points in a season better than Bratt who is Ppg? Are you for real?

I appreciate that you inserted Lundell into a group of players clearly better than the Swedes you compared them to, and then carefully pulled him from that group to object when it was pointed out that the FIN group is clearly better.

"Gretzky, Lemieux, and Kris Draper vs. Modano, Hull, and Roenick. You really think the Canadian group is better? Draper? Are you for real?!"

What a joke.

 

[Eye of Ra]

I appreciate that you inserted Lundell into a group of players clearly better than the Swedes you compared them to, and then carefully pulled him from that group to object when it was pointed out that the FIN group is clearly better.

"Gretzky, Lemieux, and Kris Draper vs. Modano, Hull, and Roenick. You really think the Canadian group is better? Draper? Are you for real?!"

What a joke.

What are you even talking about? It was you who brought Lundell into the conversation claiming that he is better than any Swede. Which of course he is not.

I can do another one; How is Hintz better than Nylander when Nylander is out producing him by a mile?

You still did not answer how Finland has better defencemen than Sweden.

 

[jbeck5]

Yes. It was just a matter of time with US expansion and teams in newer markets getting kids involved in the game with financial incentives, getting out in the community and retired Canadian players getting involved in coaching minor hockey.

The lack of good players from Quebec is concerning and if QC had a team more kids would take up the game. Unfortunately no one in QC can afford the expansion fees for a new franchise.

Us doesn't care about hockey so it will never surpass. They simply do not care. It's hard to find knowledgeable fans. It's hard to find coverage on tv. They don't talk about it on the radio.

These are big north eastern markets with original 6 teams...yet hockey is sooooooo far down the totem pole.

Hockey gets the last 5 minutes of a 30 min sport show.

In Canada, hockey gets the first 29 minutes of a 30 min sport show.

It's insanely different when it comes to the culture.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

What are you even talking about? It was you who brought Lundell into the conversation claiming that he is better than any Swede. Which of course he is not.

I can do another one; How is Hintz better than Nylander when Nylander is out producing him by a mile?

You still did not answer how Finland has better defencemen than Sweden.

Quote the post where I brought up Lundell.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It was you who brought Lundell into the conversation claiming that he is better than any Swede. Which of course he is not.

poster never said that, that I can find, maybe you can find it.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Quote the post where I brought up Lundell.

I just checked. You edit your post or i misread.

But you have still not replied to how finns have a stronger forward group and Dman group than Sweden.

We can compare player for player.

Hintz vs Nylander,: Nylander is out producing him by a land mile. How is Hintz better?

How is Aho better than Raymond when Raymond has 80 points compared to Ahos 74 points?

Barkov had 71 points this season, Bratt had 88 points. How is Barkov better?

How is Esa Lindell better than Hedman, Forsling, Dahlin, Brodin and Ekholm?

Regarding my u25 argument earlier, its pretty obvious Sweden is by far stronger at U25. Why should that be ignored? Its also part of the last decade and aswell the future.

Whats your argument?

 

[KillerMillerTime]

And a lot of Canadian players are still developed in Canada in Canadian leagues paid for in Canadian dollars. Just because the US is richer doesn't mean they produce top talents everywhere, even in the other Big 5 sports it's Europeans and Latin Americans and other persons of other cultural backgrounds dominating the new generation.

Shohei Ohtani. Victor Wenbanyama. Luka Doncic. Some could argue no American player is even as good as Leon Draisaitl in a vacuum right now let alone Canada's players. The Americans are certainly doing much better now in hockey but the money isn't doing the skating on the ice just yet.

If all it took was money then the smaller European leagues would not even be in the conversation yet the Czechs by my estimation have had top players outclass the best Americans in Hasek and Jagr and they even have international tournament results to show for it.

And in those 30 years it could be argued that Canada increased its gap over the USA. Canada has multiple wins in best in best since that last American win. Other Euro countries have wins. While the USA has none. The USA produces a lot of good players but lacks the elite players other countries have. Other than Patrick Kane was there an elite difference maker from the US since the 90’s? Yet during that time Canada and several European nations have produced a lot.

In small sample sizes upsets can and often do happen.

2\3 of your Holy Trinity couldn't beat a team w\o its #1D and top goal scorer.
A team that on paper shouldn't have needed more than 6 games max to dispose of.

On paper very little separates the US and Canada heading into Milan. More separated Colorado from Dallas and looked what happen. Where were Makar\McKinnon?

 

[NyQuil]

2\3 of your Holy Trinity couldn't beat a team w\o its #1D and top goal scorer.
A team that on paper shouldn't have needed more than 6 games max to dispose of.

It's the playoffs.

It's hockey.

Canada lost to Switzerland with its best-on-best team.

It's hockey.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Whenever I see a "you should have won by MORE goals" argument.

View attachment 1034972

Tell that to the Canadians posting the US can't beat Canada when Gold will be on the line. That is whom my post is directed at. The world is pretty clearly not made up of Captain Obviouses.

This isn't basketball we're talking about.

It's hockey.

Canada lost to Switzerland with its best-on-best team.

It's hockey.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I just checked. You edit your post or i misread.

But you have still not replied to how finns have a stronger forward group and Dman group than Sweden.

We can compare player for player.

Hintz vs Nylander,: Nylander is out producing him by a land mile. How is Hintz better?

How is Aho better than Raymond when Raymond has 80 points compared to Ahos 74 points?

Barkov had 71 points this season, Bratt had 88 points. How is Barkov better?

How is Esa Lindell better than Hedman, Forsling, Dahlin, Brodin and Ekholm?

Regarding my u25 argument earlier, its pretty obvious Sweden is by far stronger at U25. Why should that be ignored? Its also part of the last decade and aswell the future.

Whats your argument?

The latter would be correct. Your apology is accepted.

 

[Fatass]

In small sample sizes upsets can and often do happen.

2\3 of your Holy Trinity couldn't beat a team w\o its #1D and top goal scorer.
A team that on paper shouldn't have needed more than 6 games max to dispose of.

On paper very little separates the US and Canada heading into Milan. More separated Colorado from Dallas and looked what happen. Where were Makar\McKinnon?

Your point of a small sample size is accepted. The Four Nations is an example of that. The last 30 years is, of course, and much better sample.

 

[CostaRica]

Living in Canada now I can’t wait for this to happen. Eventually cricket becomes Canada’s most beloved sport allowing real hockey fans to attend Leaf games at a reasonable cost!

 

[Muffin]

USA will eventually overtake Canada. It's simply a numbers game. Population of 340 million vs 40 million.

 

[joelef]

Idk if the USA will overtake Canada but hockey Canada and the nhl need to figure out a way to make hockey cool with non white audiences. Canada demographics changes Dosent look good for hockey