USA all time team

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In binary world, sure. We got the "objectively"s engine pumpin' so...haha

Bryan Trottier objectively played for Team USA too. Pluto was objectively a planet, now it's objectively not. Everyone can play that game...

Discussion takes some nuance sometimes...

I have Hull as American, so I'm with you. But this didn't require this level of heavy-handed internet litigation, in my opinion...
 
In binary world, sure. We got the "objectively"s engine pumpin' so...haha
There is nothing wrong with the word "objectively". Some things are "objective"

"Gretzky had over 1,000 points more in his career than Lemieux", objective fact.

"I consider Gretzky to be 1.5X the player Lemieux was", subjective opinion.
Bryan Trottier objectively played for Team USA too. Pluto was objectively a planet, now it's objectively not. Everyone can play that game...
Yes, he did. He also played for Canada in both IIHF and Canada Cup Competition. Hull only played for Team USA in both IIHF and Canada/World Cup competition.
Discussion takes some nuance sometimes...

I have Hull as American, so I'm with you. But this didn't require this level of heavy-handed internet litigation, in my opinion...
What is a message board but "heavy-handed internet litigation"...?
 
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What is a message board but "heavy-handed internet litigation"...?
Good point ;)

Brett Hull objectively played on Team USA. A list of "All Time Team USA Players" objectively includes him.

If that was the subject, but people mention people that never played for team usa, like brimsek without anyone having an heavy-handed internet litigation about it, because people interpret the question as the all-time team of player I consider American, not having the best team USA resume.

If the question was all-time team USA in the sense of the athlete that performed the best for team USA, Hull will objectively be a candidate, as would Trottier.
 
In binary world, sure. We got the "objectively"s engine pumpin' so...haha

Bryan Trottier objectively played for Team USA too. Pluto was objectively a planet, now it's objectively not. Everyone can play that game...

Discussion takes some nuance sometimes...

I have Hull as American, so I'm with you. But this didn't require this level of heavy-handed internet litigation, in my opinion...

It really depends on what the thread starter was asking. If it's "Team USA" then it's an objective qualification process.
 
Brett Hull is perfectly entitled to be American. He spent the first half of his childhood in the States, the 2nd half in Canada; one American parent, one Canadian parent; and played minor hockey in both countries, even if he played more in Canada (mostly in Winnipeg).

And Team USA is who he chose to play for.
 
It really depends on what the thread starter was asking. If it's "Team USA" then it's an objective qualification process.
Certainly. But the requirements aren't clear, so the Sheriff can reject Canadian born or whatever his basis is. That's all I'm saying, there could be a "right" and "wrong" to this...but there isn't right now haha
 
Certainly. But the requirements aren't clear, so the Sheriff can reject Canadian born or whatever his basis is. That's all I'm saying, there could be a "right" and "wrong" to this...but there isn't right now haha

Hey, whatever the Sheriff wants, I'm good with.

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Good point ;)



If that was the subject, but people mention people that never played for team usa, like brimsek without anyone having an heavy-handed internet litigation about it, because people interpret the question as the all-time team of player I consider American, not having the best team USA resume.

If the question was all-time team USA in the sense of the athlete that performed the best for team USA, Hull will objectively be a candidate, as would Trottier.
True, I don't know know how much international hockey existed in Brimsek's day, at least for players on the professional track. He would have likely played for USA in the 1930 IIHF U18s had such a thing existed and then been locked in from there. Basically, we know which country he would have been eligible for and played for.

In Hull's case, it's all a bit odd, because he's really not even that much of a fringe case. If you follow the World Juniors, there are kids every year that would have been eligible for multiple nations, often USA and Canada. USA being the historically easier team to make, and now with the recruitment that the NTDP does when they're 15 tend to get a good chunk of them. But sometimes it goes the other way, like Thomas Harley playing in the 4 Nations for Canada. Nick Foligno and Marcus Foligno are brothers that belonged to different sides of the border in IIHF play.

In Hull's case, it just seems as though some sort of 90s era zeitgeist appears to still partially carry the day. When how many people in the 90s, when everyone didn't have an encyclopedia in their pocket, even knew his mother was an American, that he lived in the U.S. up until he was 8 and then again when he was 18 to go to college, had he been born a couple months earlier or later would have likely been born in the U.S. like his siblings, he cited USA picking him for the 1986 World Championships as a big confidence boost to help launch hif NHL career, etc.... He's a pretty classic Dual Citizen who made the choice to play for USA, so that was his team (because it's very hard to switch). Seems to be where the whole "primary training" thing came up, which I don't think is the true essence of international sport or anything, as there are always nationals of one country playing in another, like Hughes in GTHL, Celebrini in California because they had a parent working with a sporting org in the other country, etc.

If he wasn't (a) son of a Canadian legend, (b) born in Canada, (c) very good.. it wouldn't have been such a big thing. With benefit of distance, I think people should be able to see all the hoopla was overblown.
 
Brett Hull is perfectly entitled to be American. He spent the first half of his childhood in the States, the 2nd half in Canada; one American parent, one Canadian parent; and played minor hockey in both countries, even if he played more in Canada (mostly in Winnipeg).

And Team USA is who he chose to play for.

Thought I remembered him being in Canada until he was 16 or something. This changes my view now.
 
a couple things i wanted to clarify

first, i’m not saying hull isn’t american or has no right to play for whichever country he wants to. i’m just saying that when i’m making an all-time team for a country, i’m more interested in what country’s developmental system a player came up through than what country he chose to play for, which is a choice that can have a number of different factors and are not apples to apples. obviously with some players, hull somewhat included but i don’t think his case is that grey, there are enormous grey areas because they spent significant time in multiple places.

second, i knew this in 1991. his autobiography came out during the christmas rush of 1990 and i got and read it that winter. so i knew all the talking points leading into the canada cup. if we’re talking nationality, which again i don’t care what a player himself aligns himself with, 0-7 is almost equal to 8-18 (actually 20) so . but if we’re talking about where he learned to play hockey, he played in a house league ages 4, 5, 6, and 7 in chicago (you can look it up in his autobiography). he then played imo his crucial developmental years in winnipeg, and later north vancouver. penticton at ages 18 and 19 might count here too (because hull was a weird case of a guy who quit in high school and then had to play himself back onto the pro track in tier 2), but let’s not gild the lily.

but ultimately, i’m not telling anyone else what to think here. this is just to explain the logic of my roster.
 
i’m more interested in what country’s developmental system a player came up through
That's a different question and a bit vague as there is basically no uncertainty that one can be a national of one country and play for a "developmental system" of a different country (i.e., Hughes brothers in GTHL, Leon Draisaitl in WHL, Makar in NCAA, although I guess people will sort of unilaterally cut it off at a certain point), 'developmental system', may as well say "best OHL players", "best GTHL players", etc.

Again, fine if your system is what it is, but there's really not much uncertainty that a player like Hull was then and would now be eligible to play for either country in a way that applies to multitudes of players every year. He just gets disproportionate attention for reasons described above. One more of which I'd add is USA was never any good until the generation of players with Hull, Modano, Chelios, etc. came around so the attitude of "well that doesn't get count" appears stronger than compared to say, "well the Hughes brothers played in the GTHL before going to the NTDP in their so-called critical development years, so that doesn't count".
 
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Anyways here's what I posted in April of last year, just as the Playoffs were starting.

Forward (x13)
Brett Hull
Patrick Kane
Pat LaFontaine
John LeClair
Auston Matthews
Joe Mullen
Mike Modano
Zach Parise
Joe Pavelski
Jeremy Roenick
Keith Tkachuk
Matthew Tkachuk
Blake Wheeler

Defense (x7)
Chris Chelios
Adam Fox
Mark Howe
Quinn Hughes
Rod Langway
Brian Leetch
Ryan Suter

Goaltender (x3)
Frank Brimsek
Connor Hellebuyck
Tim Thomas
My list was already a bit more modern than a lot of the 90s heavy ones. Since then, you had M. Tkachuk increase his pedigree with a Cup, and Quinn Hughes and Connor Hellebuyck are having big time seasons. So those three are certainly solidifying their spot from what I already had (but maybe not others had?).

The other active guy who is making a better case that I didn't have there at the time is probably Jack Eichel. And while still too soon, Jack Hughes is trending well. A guy that may be trending out is Adam Fox. Would like to see another monster season and ideally not in a shortened year.
 
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Whining about it doesn't somehow make it a valid perspective. Thomas Harley grew up in Syracuse and played for Canada in 4 Nations because he considered himself Canadian.

Your consideration doesn't matter, this is about the team players play for in IIHF Competition, which has strict rules on switching. William Nylander is Team Sweden, that's the team he plays for. Brett Hull is Team USA, that's the team he played for. This is ultimate Team USA, not ultimate "players some Canadians in 1996 considered to be properly American"

Brett Hull would likely be offered a spot on the USNTDP today (well maybe, as he was considered a late bloomer) and if he accepted would like end up playing for Team USA.
Regarding Nylander, his parents are Swedish and he only played for Team Sweden. Same with Steen. Thought both of them spend lots of time in NA as kids due to their parents being NHLers. They are Swedes, but with an connection to Canada.
 
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