U18: USA: 2019 WJC18

[AmericanDream]

That could very well be the reason. Thats not what I was asking. I was asking for the reason why my opinion is wrong because the way I see it, Zegras is the better center.

Our other three centers are 68%, 63% and 56% in the face-off dot. Hughes is 40%. Zegras is bigger, he's better on face-offs, he's better defensively, he doesn't turn the puck over as often in bad areas.

Would you rather ice a worse team to keep up some faulty narrative about Hughes ability? If you can't win more than 40% of your face-offs against junior aged centers of Slovakia, Sweden and Russia, most of which will never play a game in the NHL, you should not be playing center. We have a top 10 pick center who has been shifted to wing to accommodate Hughes. If Zegras is a better center, he should play center.

because there is more to being a center than faceoffs. Dylan Strome is our #2 center but not good at the dot, many times Anisimov or Kampf would take the draw for Strome since he is still a young/learning center..it hasn't put a damper on him one ounce, he is our #2 center because of what he does on the ice., and not because of what he does at the dot.

as for Zegras and Hughes, they are both are extremely skilled and gifted players. everything I have seen of Hughes has him the superior player in nearly every category I can think of..Zegras isn't that great away from the puck either, but a kid like him probably likes the flexibility of playing center and wing. I don't think it hurts him any nor do I think it ices any inferior team. Cozens has been playing wing for Canada, and I think that helps him out as well with flexibility in a lineup.

I get that you are not as high on Hughes as others, but you seem to make stuff out of nothing here - it really isn't a big issues that Hughes lacks at faceoffs IMO. If Zegras was more Turcotte and a beast away from the puck, I can see a case for it, but he isn't and Hughes is simply better at everything else IMO.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I get that you are not as high on Hughes as others, but you seem to make stuff out of nothing here - it really isn't a big issues that Hughes lacks at faceoffs IMO. If Zegras was more Turcotte and a beast away from the puck, I can see a case for it, but he isn't and Hughes is simply better at everything else IMO.

I named a number of categories. You commented on faceoffs. What is controversial about thinking Zegras is the better center option? I've commented on how the coach is using other players. What makes this controversial? Either way you look at it, you are going to have to relegate a top 10 pick who the experts project as a center to wing. Why does no one seem to care that Zegras has been relegated to wing but if Hughes ability to play the position is questioned its not allowed?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I named a number of categories. You commented on faceoffs. Why is there such an adverse reaction if a comment is made that doesn't paint Hughes as Wayne Gretzky reincarnated? What is controversial about thinking Zegras is the better center option? I've commented on how the coach is using other players, but the one thing that can't be said is questioning why a top 10 pick center is playing wing?

But you're arguing for one to reverse to the other role.

I get the argument that Hughes might not transition to this spot in the NHL. I disagree, but I understand the people making it. I don't think it is really all that arguable in a tournament with his peers where he is the consensus best player in the draft. I get not being as high on him. I am not high on Kakko this year and it seems to upset a lot of people.

Faceoff percentage isn't enough for me to want to move the most productive player in the history of the program away from the position he has played in the program his entire stay while dominating his age group. I can see the long-term argument in terms of NHL projection, again I disagree but I don't think they should be running Hughes out as anything but a #1C right now in terms of Team USA.

 

[AmericanDream]

I named a number of categories. You commented on faceoffs. Why is there such an adverse reaction if a comment is made that doesn't paint Hughes as Wayne Gretzky reincarnated? What is controversial about thinking Zegras is the better center option? I've commented on how the coach is using other players, but the one thing that can't be said is questioning why a top 10 pick center is playing wing?

I mean, I don't know how else to say it - I said it in my last post, you are not as high on Hughes as others and that is fine. If you want to respond with stupidity and bring up Gretzky when I said nothing close to that, that is on you. I view Hughes as a better player at nearly everything one can do on the ice over Zegras...nearly everything. You do not, that is your opinion. I just think you are forcing a narrative that just isn't here or barely anyone else agrees with, which again is still okay. It is cool to have your beliefs and opinions, I enjoy many of them, but also you need to understand that when you stand out on a ledge like you are, you are going to draw all the attention there is. I just do not see what you see, nor do I think some of the "issues" you are bringing up are truly issues at all for a young skilled centerman. Hughes has time to grow and understand the game better. Mike Modano was horrific in his own zone, horrific as a junior player...players evolve over time, I am confident Hughes will do the same.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I mean, I don't know how else to say it - I said it in my last post, you are not as high on Hughes as others and that is fine. If you want to respond with stupidity and bring up Gretzky when I said nothing close to that, that is on you. I view Hughes as a better player at nearly everything one can do on the ice over Zegras...nearly everything. You do not, that is your opinion. I just think you are forcing a narrative that just isn't here or barely anyone else agrees with, which again is still okay. It is cool to have your beliefs and opinions, I enjoy many of them, but also you need to understand that when you stand out on a ledge like you are, you are going to draw all the attention there is. I just do not see what you see, nor do I think some of the "issues" you are bringing up are truly issues at all for a young skilled centerman. Hughes has time to grow and understand the game better. Mike Modano was horrific in his own zone, horrific as a junior player...players evolve over time, I am confident Hughes will do the same.

I don't see it as a "hot take" either, so I'm not sure why its being regarded as an argument as opposed to a discussion point about this team. We are all fans of this team, and want to ice the best lines, best defensive pairs. Is it ridiculous to think that the team would be better with Zegras at center and Hughes at wing? I guess some think that, but I think Zegras at center and Hughes at winger is a better alignment for this team. I don't see it as criticizing one player and complimenting the other. I think you want to find the best combinations for the team.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

But you're arguing for one to reverse to the other role.

I get the argument that Hughes might not transition to this spot in the NHL. I disagree, but I understand the people making it. I don't think it is really all that arguable in a tournament with his peers where he is the consensus best player in the draft. I get not being as high on him. I am not high on Kakko this year and it seems to upset a lot of people.

Faceoff percentage isn't enough for me to want to move the most productive player in the history of the program away from the position he has played in the program his entire stay while dominating his age group. I can see the long-term argument in terms of NHL projection, again I disagree but I don't think they should be running Hughes out as anything but a #1C right now in terms of Team USA.

As I had mentioned, unless you are going to put one of the three of them on the third line, I don't see the other choice. I don't see why its seen as some hot-take. Is it regarded as a hot-take that someone would have a consensus top 10 pick like Zegras at winger? No, its just a decision that teams with a lot of talent have to make, and I think everyone agrees that one of the three is going to have to play wing. We all want the best team iced. I think everyone agrees that you figure out who the two best centers are, and the other one plays the wing. Its not so complicated.

I don't see this as being a discussion that should have anything to do with who the best player is or whose going to be drafted where or trying to cater to any player. I think thats the main problem here. You have three top ten picks who all might turn into very good NHL players. Why are you deciding that you have to cater to Hughes and the other two have to fall in line after that? If the other two are better suited for center and Hughes is better suited for wing, thats what should happen. This team shouldn't be catering the lines to any player. Ice the best team. And you can still be the best player on the wing. If you think Hughes is the best player at the tournament as a center, why wouldn't you think he's the best player at the tournament as a winger?

 

[AmericanDream]

I don't see it as a "hot take" either, so I'm not sure why its being regarded as an argument as opposed to a discussion point about this team. We are all fans of this team, and want to ice the best lines, best defensive pairs. Is it ridiculous to think that the team would be better with Zegras at center and Hughes at wing? I guess some think that, but I think Zegras at center and Hughes at winger is a better alignment for this team. I don't see it as criticizing one player and complimenting the other. I think you want to find the best combinations for the team.

most people don't view it like you do, so they might call it a hot take. you have consistently rated Hughes lower than a few others for this draft, you might not be intentionally trying to diminish the kid, but some can see something here that is a bit off. you don't have him in your top 2 - 100% of the "known" scouting community does. you don't think he will be a NHL center, or at least a successful one - again, seems 100% of the scouting community feels he will and is not suggesting what you are. I don't think it is a bad topic or debate, but you have been saying it for a while now with very little evidence to suggest that any changes should be made for Hughes. I don't speak for others and everyone is entitled to their own views/opinions, I jut simply do not see what you do with Hughes...at all.. but that is cool, stand your ground but be prepared to defend it like hell.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

As I had mentioned, unless you are going to put one of the three of them on the third line, I don't see the other choice. I don't see why its seen as some hot-take. Is it regarded as a hot-take that someone would have a consensus top 10 pick like Zegras at winger? No, its just a decision that teams with a lot of talent have to make, and I think everyone agrees that one of the three is going to have to play wing. We all want the best team iced. I think everyone agrees that you figure out who the two best centers are, and the other one plays the wing. Its not so complicated.

I don't see this as being a discussion that should have anything to do with who the best player is or whose going to be drafted where or trying to cater to any player. I think thats the main problem here. You have three top ten picks who all might turn into very good NHL players. Why are you deciding that you have to cater to Hughes and the other two have to fall in line after that? If the other two are better suited for center and Hughes is better suited for wing, thats what should happen. This team shouldn't be catering the lines to any player. Ice the best team. And you can still be the best player on the wing. If you think Hughes is the best player at the tournament as a center, why wouldn't you think he's the best player at the tournament as a winger?

You're not deciding that... Simply put Hughes has outperformed them at that position to date and his status as the highest scoring player in the history of the program cements that. I mean if we want to get into faceoffs which isn't the be all end all, especially at lower levels where the players aren't as good at leveraging faceoff plays and things of that nature. I mean I just don't see it. Zegras has wound up out on the wing because he is the third best C on this team and has spent a ton of the year on the wing as a result. Now that doesn't mean he cannot be a very good NHL player, just on this team that is his role. It is his role because others have earned the more prominent roles in front of him.

I get that you disagree, but let's stop pretending that Hughes hasn't earned this role. He has literally put up the most points in program history while playing that role. He is really good at it, especially when playing against his own age group in my opinion. I see it as a downgrade to go to Zegras when you have Hughes and Turcotte, but then again I have them as #1 and #2 on my board respectively.

Tough age group for Zegras and I am not sure that the smart play isn't to let him feast on third lines for the record. It is an advantage nobody else in the tournament can have, you find him double shift moments in my opinion, that would be my critique in terms of throwing the most overwhelming game plan at people. It isn't often at this tournament that anybody is asking a third pairing to check a draft eligible top 10 prospect, it is an advantage that would be very difficult to deal with. But he is outgunned by the other two for the top 6 center role in my opinion and their production this year has verified that and consolidated their grasp on those positions in the lineup.

 

[SK94]

 

[Artorius Horus T]

No hat-trick for Caufield yet

 

[Artorius Horus T]

wrong thread

 

[SK94]

What a disaster. Finns in QF. Tough tournament for them but always really tough opponent for US. Pretty much worst possible scenario.

 

[AmericanDream]

No hat-trick for Caufield yet

1 away...

 

[AmericanDream]

What a disaster. Finns in QF. Tough tournament for them but always really tough opponent for US. Pretty much worst possible scenario.

tough matchup no doubt, but this group is loaded, they should be able to beat any team at any round..let's see what these kids are made of..

 

[Rabid Ranger]

What a disaster. Finns in QF. Tough tournament for them but always really tough opponent for US. Pretty much worst possible scenario.

I hope that's not the team's mindset.

 

[HockeyGuy1975]

I have not been able to watch much hockey this year, but I have been watching online streams of the US games. I am blown away by how good this team is. What a treat to watch. Reminds me of the old Soviet teams in the way they skate and move the puck.

Regarding individuals... Hughes is the best US junior player I have ever seen. Based on my limited viewings, I would take him over 18yo Kane. He is on the McDavid-level IMO.

I love Turcotte and Boldy as well. Caulfied is nasty as well. Each of those guys looks better than an NTDP prospect since Keller. I don´t have an opinion on Zegras since he has not been playing.

 

[SK94]

Sometimes its really annoying that Hughes try find a pass when he should pretty much just score a goal. I think this perfomance was pretty lazy. Yes they dominated but i think guys like Hughes and Turcotte was really quiet. Also our second line showed up only in last period. Finns just beat Switzerland 12-0. They already ruined our World Juniors so hopefully this team can beat Finland.

 

[AmericanDream]

Sometimes its really annoying that Hughes try find a pass when he should pretty much just score a goal. I think this perfomance was pretty lazy. Yes they dominated but i think guys like Hughes and Turcotte was really quiet. Also our second line showed up only in last period. Finns just beat Switzerland 12-0. They already ruined our World Juniors so hopefully this team can beat Finland.

I like when a team scores 12 goals prior to playing us......

 

[JLT]

Here are the full highlights from the USA vs. Latvia game....

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think we're going to beat Finland badly because these players have lost a few games recently to Finland, and I think they are going to want revenge, but this is a losable game. This happens every year in the WJC20 and WJC18 formats where a team plays an undefeated prelims, and draws one of the powerhouses in the QF's due to that team underachieving against weak competition.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Regarding individuals... Hughes is the best US junior player I have ever seen. Based on my limited viewings, I would take him over 18yo Kane. He is on the McDavid-level IMO.

While Hughes certainly is an excellent prospect, he's no where near the same level as Mcdavid when he played juniors. I have been fortunate to have seen them both play in person a lot during their junior careers, and McDavid is the best junior player I have ever seen play in our arena in Plymouth. He was the best player on the ice the first time he played here as an under age 15 year old, and just got better and better during his OHL career. You could tell he was going to be very special.

 

[Svedu]

But honestly, how good is Mcdavid at involving his line mates? He is a generational talent for sure, but if i had to choose between a line consisting Hughes & Kakko vs McDavid and, let´s say Dylan Strome? I would choose Hughes & Kakko, everyday.
USA are solid gold favorites. Finlands goaltending and defense has been a joke. With that said, it will be exciting to see what Lundell & Aaltonen can create.
When we are on it, Leevi Aaltonen is a winger that would be a match made in heaven for a center like McDavid. Hard working, exceptional acceleration and a decent skill set. Not first line potential but that should not be the most important thing. It´s laughable that the Oilers organization has not understood that at this point, or scouted players like Leevi in the second and third rounds. Why? Because Mcdavid is not the best center to include his mates, but he needs speed on his sides if they want to create a special first line. Everybody is loving McJesus and praising him, but i´ve not seen him build any chemistry in his NHL career. Just like Crosby and Kunitz was a good match back in the days. Chemistry is important and a beautiful thing in hockey. McDavid is the best player perhaps, but he has never been in the best line in my opinion.
Just take a look at Mackinnon and Rantanen for example. Two great players but they seem to make each other even better, that´s hockey baby, and that´s something i´ve liked with Hughes and his ability. He gives me the feeling of being some kind of a hybrid between Aho & McDavid, big words i know.

 

[SpartanProdigy]

I think we're going to beat Finland badly because these players have lost a few games recently to Finland, and I think they are going to want revenge, but this is a losable game. This happens every year in the WJC20 and WJC18 formats where a team plays an undefeated prelims, and draws one of the powerhouses in the QF's due to that team underachieving against weak competition.

Getting Finland in the quarters is the worst possible reward for winning their group. Especially for an overwhelmingly favored squad like this who beat up on their competition in pool play. If their tourney ends 2 games early in a single game elemination because they drew the toughest team in the quarters, it's going to be devastating, both for the players and the fans.

The only solace I take in the situation is that Finland already beat the US in the pre-tournament game and I think it's really hard to beat a good squad twice in the same tournament (like in WJC where the US handily beat Finland in pool play and then lost in the gold medal game).

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Getting Finland in the quarters is the worst possible reward for winning their group. Especially for an overwhelmingly favored squad like this who beat up on their competition in pool play. If their tourney ends 2 games early in a single game elemination because they drew the toughest team in the quarters, it's going to be devastating, both for the players and the fans.

The only solace I take in the situation is that Finland already beat the US in the pre-tournament game and I think it's really hard to beat a good squad twice in the same tournament (like in WJC where the US handily beat Finland in pool play and then lost in the gold medal game).

Don't let one 12-0 crush over lousy Switzerland fool on you.

Finland's defense is still shaky and so is the goalies despite of one lucky 21 save shutout for Taponen.
Switzerland had some good scoring chances but they couldn't finish those.

Also our ( Finland's) players took again too much idiotic penalties.
If we wanna win tomorrow vs USA we have to stay out of penalty box.
And that's easier said than done.

 

[AmericanDream]

it has the makings for an upset game...on talent alone the US should win, but it never just comes down to talent on paper vs Finland..