US team announced

[RangerBoy]

Why doesn't the U.S. hold a selection camp in December?Canada does it.Most of the other countries do it

A quote from Hurricanes head scout Sheldon Ferguson who was head scout for Hockey Canada from 1992-95, winning gold three times

"There are kids they miss because they only get a look at them at their summer camp. That's a long time at this age group from August to December," he said.

http://www.londonknights.com/press/display_news.asp?news=293

Michael Sauer missed the evaluation camp in the summer recovered from his hip surgery.Did Hockey USA even watch Sauer play this season for Portland?

 

[oil slick]

I like the team, but do you really think that no biases was given to college players? 3 to 19 is just two wide of gap to conclude that there was no prefferance given for to the NCAA guys.

I don't know that you can make that claim... the fact is that most of the top US players go the NCAA, and the opposite is true for Canada, where I would guess only 4 NCAA players are chosen.

Top Canadian players choose CHL more often than not.
Top American players choose NCAA more often than not.

 

[RangerBoy]

I think if you're a reasonable person, you'll agree that the correct approach is being taken this year when it comes to picking the team.

Are they same the people picking the team this year?YES

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Are they same the people picking the team this year?YES

Are they the same people that picked the team when we won gold? Yes, with the exception of Walt Kyle.

 

[nomorekids]

Wow, a mod trying to bait people? Tisk tisk. You got caught in your false info statement, suck it up.

I'm not baiting you. I think you're being unreasonable and bitter because your prospects weren't picked, when no one else seems bothered by their omission. Sauer is someone I could see being picked next year, but if you look at the rosters that people were throwing out as guesses, Dubinsky wasn't really on many's radar.

 

[xander]

I don't know that you can make that claim... the fact is that most of the top US players go the NCAA, and the opposite is true for Canada, where I would guess only 4 NCAA players are chosen.

Top Canadian players choose CHL more often than not.
Top American players choose NCAA more often than not.

There's lots of American talent in the CHL that got left of the team that you could make a very good argument for being on the team. Go look at the thread about non-NCAA guys that posters expected to make the team. My point is that there was COMPARABLE (read, not necisarily better) talent available in the CHL and they chose to go with the camparable NCAA guys. I'm not unhappy with this, as I said: I like the team. But I think there is definatly a bias towards NCAA players that factored into some of these decisions.

 

[FLYLine27*]

I'm not baiting you. I think you're being unreasonable and bitter because your prospects weren't picked, when no one else seems bothered by their omission. Sauer is someone I could see being picked next year, but if you look at the rosters that people were throwing out as guesses, Dubinsky wasn't really on many's radar.

All im saying is look at the people picked from the CHL, all pretty much future star players in the NHL(Schremp, Ryan, and Mueller(maybe not so much a sure thing with him yet)) , it seems like all they did was pick those few players and the rest went to the NCAA and the USA Junior team.

 

[nomorekids]

All im saying is look at the people picked from the CHL, all pretty much future star players in the NHL(Schremp, Ryan, and Mueller(maybe not so much a sure thing with him yet)) , it seems like all they did was pick those few players and the rest went to the NCAA and the USA Junior team.

but that's just it. those that made it impossible NOT to pick them...were picked. the rest were at least close with NCAA\USNTDP kids...and in the end, familiarity won. I don't think that going with a known commodity is a bad idea. In fact, it might be a little safer than a high risk\high reward guy.

 

[Beatnik]

It's normal that the US team will be biased toward NCAA players. As it's normal the team Canada will favorise CHL guys.

Russia do it too with guys in the CHL too, you can't appreciate players you almost never see.

 

[Sabes]

I am suprised that Thelen didn't get his chance. His game is starting to evolve and he is adjusting to the WHL style of play. When he first came into the league he didn't play in his end very well but now he is probably the Raiders best rounded D-man.

 

[puck swami]

Walt Kyle knows both the NCAA, the CHL, the AHL and NHL because he's coached in all these places as well as coaching in this tournament on multiple occassions with all kinds of different US teams- he is not playing politics, folks. He's trying to win a medal, preferrably gold, to quote a recent hockey movie - he's "not looking for the best players, he's looking for the right ones."

Walt Kyle obviously wants more than 22 most talented or best-known US players - he wants a team with defined roles for each player to play - scorers, grinders, hitters, puck carriers, passers, grit, etc. This is something Canada has done well for years, and he only has a short time to put the team together so he needs to build team chemistry and players who know each other already. He's obviously putting together a team for the small ice sheet in Vancouver. Had the tourney been in Europe this year, you'd see a lot of different faces, but it's in Canada this year so he wants a team that will be focused on the task and won't be distracted by by the large Canadian media presence, and will able to play on the small sheet.

As to NCAA/CHL bias, I don't really think that plays big role in the process. Canadian Hockey often selects CHL players over comparable NCAA players because the Canadian coaches know these players better - not because the players are really better than one another. They are looking to build chemistry. So does Team USA. Accordingly there is probably an element in USA Hockey that prefers the college players over a CHL player if the abilities and roles are similar. But unlike some US coaches in the past who don't know much about the CHL, Kyle does - he's been a head coach in the WHL, so if anyone can appreciate talent levels in American coaching, Kyle knows.

My point here is that this is not a best talent collection, nor do they pick the guys with best stats. They are trying to build a TEAM.

 

[firstroundbust]

I am suprised that Thelen didn't get his chance. His game is starting to evolve and he is adjusting to the WHL style of play. When he first came into the league he didn't play in his end very well but now he is probably the Raiders best rounded D-man.

ya, a little surprised here too...oh well, AJ...enjoy that bus ride to Brandon

 

[Fripp]

Nice, pass up the guy who's second in the W in points per game and can fill a grinder role.
Dubinsky generates energy and offense out of nothing.

 

[puck swami]

The US does not hold an in-season evaluation camp because they don't want the college players (the majority of the US pool) to miss any more classes than they already do with regular season travel, and weekends are out becuase that's when most colleges play games. With only 35 games each year, college coaches don't want players to miss them, because each game means so much.

The USA holds an evalution camp in August (in non-school time) for the top 40-45 prospects and then scouts the ones they are considering for the team as the season progresses. The US pool is still smaller than the Canadian pool, so this system works for them.

 

[oil slick]

I've got to admit that I'm a little confused by adding Paukovich... and he's even an Oiler prospect. I've not seen him play at all, but it was my impression that he was a huge disappointment this year. Am I wrong (people whove actually seen him play)? The only thing I hear about him is either him not scoring, or him injuring people.

 

[Gwyddbwyll]

Pretty disappointed to see Yandle miss out - he made a big effort to show a two-way game and as well as being the highest scoring defenseman in his league, he owns the best plus-minus too. There was a lot of competition though and they seem to have gone with the NCAA guy every time its close.

 

[Prof_it]

I don't think you can be overly critical of the team. This is one year where the US is in the enviable position of turning away some tremendous players. This is similar to the debate that follows the selection of every Canadian national team. It is simply an outstanding year for US born players. This is something we should be celebrating!

It is easy to criticize but when you look at the roster it becomes hard finding someone, who was selected to play, to leave off. Ultimately the success of the selection process can be judged by the medal the team wins, or does not.

 

[USA!]

PAKO

 

[puck swami]

I've got to admit that I'm a little confused by adding Paukovich... and he's even an Oiler prospect. I've not seen him play at all, but it was my impression that he was a huge disappointment this year. Am I wrong (people whove actually seen him play)? The only thing I hear about him is either him not scoring, or him injuring people.

Paukovich has been disappointing this year as an offensive scorer for Denver, but that won't be his role with Team USA. Kyle certainly picked Paukovich to play a physical, hitting role to create space for other Team USA snipers on the small ice sheet in Vancouver. In that role, Paukovich's selection makes perfect sense. Paukovich probably wouldn't make this team if the tournry was in Europe on the big ice, but Kyle will need physical presence to stand up to Canada in Canada, and he's counting on Paukovich to play that role.

 

[Spectacular_Bid]

Anyone have thoughts on line combinations? Any players they'd like to see play with each other??

 

[NYIschremp44]

Is anyone surprised at the two players that made last years team and are still eligible for this years team that were not selected; Adam Pineault, and Shawn Weller

Anyone know reasons for Pineault not being selected? Did injury play a part?

 

[Oilers Chick]

Walt Kyle knows both the NCAA, the CHL, the AHL and NHL because he's coached in all these places as well as coaching in this tournament on multiple occassions with all kinds of different US teams- he is not playing politics, folks. He's trying to win a medal, preferrably gold, to quote a recent hockey movie - he's "not looking for the best players, he's looking for the right ones."

Walt Kyle obviously wants more than 22 most talented or best-known US players - he wants a team with defined roles for each player to play - scorers, grinders, hitters, puck carriers, passers, grit, etc. This is something Canada has done well for years, and he only has a short time to put the team together so he needs to build team chemistry and players who know each other already. He's obviously putting together a team for the small ice sheet in Vancouver. Had the tourney been in Europe this year, you'd see a lot of different faces, but it's in Canada this year so he wants a team that will be focused on the task and won't be distracted by by the large Canadian media presence, and will able to play on the small sheet.

As to NCAA/CHL bias, I don't really think that plays big role in the process. Canadian Hockey often selects CHL players over comparable NCAA players because the Canadian coaches know these players better - not because the players are really better than one another. They are looking to build chemistry. So does Team USA. Accordingly there is probably an element in USA Hockey that prefers the college players over a CHL player if the abilities and roles are similar. But unlike some US coaches in the past who don't know much about the CHL, Kyle does - he's been a head coach in the WHL, so if anyone can appreciate talent levels in American coaching, Kyle knows.

My point here is that this is not a best talent collection, nor do they pick the guys with best stats. They are trying to build a TEAM.

Thank you for the excellent post and helping to clarify my earlier point.

I'll add one thing here. Just because the US camp is held in August doesn't necessarily mean that's the end of the team evaluation process because if that were the case, we'd have all heard/read the announcement back in September. These kids are evaluated from the camp through to almost the day the team is announced in December. This is how the selection process (as I understand it) works for Team USA, and it doesn't matter WHICH side of the border the player is playing on. If they've been invited, they're looked at and studied.

I like this team, although I have to admit to being a bit surprised about Paukovich's selection myself. Nevertheless, I think he's a wonderful addition and hopefully will be a big contributor.

 

[Aaron Vickers]

They didnt take the best 15 forwards at all. They took grinders as well.

Who would you define as grinders from the 2002 Olympic Team?

 

[oil slick]

Who would you define as grinders from the 2002 Olympic Team?

Peca was definately a grinder.

Apart from that, IIRC there weren't many. I think Shanahan, Smyth, and Nieuwendyk were added for their grit... not that they weren't good forwards, but I think there were forwards skipped with more offensive pop for them.

 

[William H Bonney]

Who would you define as grinders from the 2002 Olympic Team?

Peca off the top of my head.