Micklebot
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- Apr 27, 2010
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So... We have Stü, Pinto, Norris and Greig, why do we preferably need a center?
Management UPDATE: Steve Staios GM and POHO, Dave Poulin Senior VP of Hockey Operations
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I think what hes reffering to is 2 way forwards are normaly centers or former centers moved to the wing.
Normally centers are the responsible 2 way forwards Staois is looking for compared to Wingers who are Normally more offensive minded.
I'd try to target
Sam Bennett type , with a bunch of character , 2 way game
SpezDispenser
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2007
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We need a veteran C imo. That's one of many problems we have. No experience down the middle and particularly no 2 way presence to calm things down.
In the future it should be great, but now we need some leadership etc.
Plus, if Norris ever comes back, he's more suited to wing now imo. Same with Greig for the time being.
I should have read down. Pretty much this exactly.
Why is Norris more suited to wing? Personally I am hoping that this new surgeon fixed Norris's shoulder. He sure talked a big game in the Athletic article on Tarasenko's shoulder.
I think that Stuetzle is more suited to wing. He's not great at faceoffs so there's that. He hasn't got any size. If you saw the quote I posted from Marty St. Louis, there doesn't really seem to be a lot of game management within Stuetzle. To me, apart from the goalies, he is this year's biggest disappointment
Maybe moving him back to wing where he doesn't have the same defensive responsibility is the way to go
Tuna99
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2009
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Sty’s brain needs more work, his legs and hands are already there
I dont think Stuztle’s defensive game is his short coming - to me he’s in the young Micheal Jordan / Nat McKinnon territory where he doesn’t use his team yes we’ll and just rushes into the offensive zone without a real plan or strategy he just goes in and tries to do it with his talent. Sri needs to learn to slow down a bit and build plays by playing in more space - he creates space with his speed but he also needs to learn to get into softer ice better and the team game will improve massively.
Stu is just young - it’s like this for almost all young players with exceptional offensive talent. They want to prove something about themselves instead of taking a team first approcach. They think their natural god given talent will win them games and not their elite brains
SpezDispenser
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If Norris can make a full recovery, that's one thing, but I'm not convinced personally and I'd like to get him away from taking 10 faceoffs a game. Otherwise, yes, I've always like his 2 way game. Not the greatest puck distributor though.
Stu needs to get stronger. I have a feeling he f***ed the dog last off season, because he's looked weak a lot of the times. Falling over, losing puck battles. You have a hall of fame guy who had a core like an oak tree as a coach, maybe ask him to help this summer and take the next step.
Also, stu was in the first year of a contract that paid him 10 times more than he was paid last year and at times it looks like he's trying to do ten times more on the ice.
That said, he's also my most disappointing player this year.
Tuna99
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Keep in mind maturity, both physically and emotionally, plays a huge role in the NHL. There's a reason people who analyze the game often talk about having experience down the middle. It's not just the experience of having played the actual games but it's also experience in in-game situations, off-season preparation, pre-game preparation (both physical and mental) and many other things.
Also consider, since coming in to the league, he's 4th in the league in Penalties Drawn, behind McDavid, Brady Tkachuk and Matthew Tkachuk, and has the 3rd highest Net Penalties (drawn minus taken) behind McDavid and Pettersson. And arguably could have considerably more penalties drawn, despite his reputation for "diving". Which, on a separate tangent, can you call him a diver when he gets fouled all of the time?
His time is coming. Physical maturity + mental maturity will make him an absolute force in the league. A summer of good training habits and a little bit of "growing up" will do wonders for him. He's just coming up on the 300 game mark, which compares favourably to around when guys like Draisaitl, Pastrnak, Rantanen, Pettersson and other stars of that calibre started to really break out.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Yes. He has to cut it out of his game.
As you say, the refs will stop calling obvious fouls involving him.
He is both a high frequency victim due to his impressive skill at puck possession and a diver.
It's a challenge because refs may not notice the infractions where you don't fall to the ice - but sometimes it's way too easy and obvious to anyone watching.
BankStreetParade said:
I get the sense that this was his first season in his hockey career where he really struggled to meet his own expectations, and it was frustrating.
SpezDispenser
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UglyPuckling
Registered User
- May 14, 2021
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Quantity wise, no.
I’ve wondered how our young centers compare to the best in the league (top 30% let’s say)? They are still young and can improve, so that makes it more difficult to determine at this stage.
I suppose that question is also relative to the goals that people set. Making the playoffs (talked about a lot in here) is one thing, winning a Cup or making deep playoff runs multiple years in a row is another.
To be clear, I haven’t reached a conclusion, but it is something that I ponder.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Assuming all are healthy, and we are talking about right now:
Teams with better centres:
-Colorado
-Edmonton
-Toronto
-Vancouver
-Florida
-Tampa Bay
-New York Rangers
-Dallas
-New Jersey
-Carolina
-Los Angeles
-New York Islanders
-Las Vegas
-Pittsburgh
Teams with comparable centres:
-Buffalo
-Calgary
-Nashville
-St. Louis
Teams with worse centres:
-Montreal
-Boston
-Detroit
-Winnipeg
-Chicago
-San Jose
-Columbus
-Minnesota
-Seattle
-Anaheim
-Arizona
-Washington
-Philadelphia
I'm definitely skewing towards #1C as having more impact than a #3C.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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With Norris the question seems to boil down to his shoulder for some but I'm quite sure why a winger can get away with a wonky shoulder any better than a center
Stu to me looks like a better pick distributer from center, but does have some areas he needs to improve at. Faceoffs have been coming along, his first 3 seasons he was around 40% and this year he's around 47, which you can work with, but it's the progress that's promising. I don't watch enough MTL to comment on Stu relative to Suzuki, all I can do is look at the stats, usage seems pretty similar, both guys a touch above 50% in oz starts, both guys seeing similar toi Qoc, neither guy gets a ton of PK time, both guys have similar giveaways and takeaway numbers, Stu hits more but they block shots at a similar clip.
All that said, I'll concede Suzuki is likely better defensively, but the question is how did he get there, and can Stüget there; I personally think the best thing long term is to groom Stü into a two way force by keeping him at center and going through some growing pains along the way.
Only if Staios abuses the LTIR loophole the way Vegas and Tampa have
UglyPuckling
Registered User
- May 14, 2021
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Even attempting to put this together is admirable. I was much more lazy and just asked the question. LOL.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
I can’t see any scenario where it would make sense to trade Joseph… let’s say you can get a 2nd and 3rd, whoopie-doo now you need 2 Josephs
Curious what everyone's thinking on how quickly thing will start to unfold this off-season
How quickly will we see the coaching changes, further front office changes, ect
How quickly will we see the coaching changes, further front office changes, ect
Joeyjoejoe
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2015
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I am assuming they are gonna wait until the first round of the playoffs are over to see if any other interesting coaches become available.
Tuna99
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2009
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I hope Staois actually lays out a plan at the end of season press conference. One thing I think the fans have really appreacited is having Jacqies Martin talk to us about he team and individuals like we are knowledgeable fans who can’t be lied to or misled and that’s been really the only good thing about the season - finally we are being truthful and realistic about the team. Whatever the real verdict is on this team through Staois eyes - just be honest.
Don’t think we are a playoff team next year - honesty
You want to start over and need major changes that will take 2-3 years - honesty
Want to move major piece - honesty
Want an experienced NHL playoff coach or can’t afford one or even one that walks on water- honesty
Just don’t bullshit us as fans. It’s been shit here for so long the only thing this team has going for it is the new managershave been judged to be straight and honest and real.
Loach
Registered User
- Jun 9, 2021
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I guess slow but consistent. As people become available. Could be everywhere too. The whole org needs a boost.
Joseph is a good 3rd liner and while his numbers could drop next year he'll always be a valuable player with his speed, tenacity, PKing and defensive game.
We need more Josephs, not less.
Tkachuk - Stutzle - Giroux
Greig - Norris - Batherson
??????? - Pinto - Joseph
Should look to add a similar player to Joseph to round out a nice shutdown line.
Heck we may need another top 9 winger as well if Norris' shoulder doesn't get fixed and Greig needs to be shifted to center to replace him.
You guys are going to be really disappointed when they hire Gruden, lol. It's been the plan all along.
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