Unless its changed since I left, hockey hardly got discussed on NY sports talk outside of the year the Rangers won the cup. The following year when the Devils were on their way to winning the cup Nashville was making a push to get them to move, and the sports talk shows were like "yeah whatever let them go"
UPDATE 3/31- NEWSDAY - Coliseum gets $6M for renovation to host Isles
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Unless its changed since I left, hockey hardly got discussed on NY sports talk outside of the year the Rangers won the cup. The following year when the Devils were on their way to winning the cup Nashville was making a push to get them to move, and the sports talk shows were like "yeah whatever let them go"
Elephant Igloo
Registered User
- Jan 11, 2017
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Of course.
I'm not arguing NY is some great market, I'm just saying Pittsburgh has had it's problems and people are acting like they didn't.
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gordie
5x
Basketball is considered a street game in the Big Urban city of New York. New York mistreats NHL Hockey the way it does because Basketball and the NBA are considered by most there as something they export and a way of life unlike Hockey which is considered a foreign import. Which goes back to my original post on this topic of New York not needing to be represented by 3 teams in that region. 2 is fine but 3 isn't necessary for the NHL.
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gordie
5x
It is very easy to say Pittsburgh is one of the best markets for the NHL in the U.S. because how seriously the league is taken. I now this is hard to believe but there are plenty of U.S. Markets where the NHL is considered an import and is treated as such. As far as Chicago goes, it has its own parochial quirks. I don't think Chicago pays attention to the NHL when the Hawks are down but I do agree with what Bobby Hull always said, that they do love their Blackhawks.
Agree to disagree.Basketball is considered a street game in the Big Urban city of New York. New York mistreats NHL Hockey the way it does because Basketball and the NBA are considered by most there as something they export and a way of life unlike Hockey which is considered a foreign import. Which goes back to my original post on this topic of New York not needing to be represented by 3 teams in that region. 2 is fine but 3 isn't necessary for the NHL.
Fair enough.
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RangerBlues
Registered User
Brick City
Ignore me!
Basketball is considered a street game in the Big Urban city of New York. New York mistreats NHL Hockey the way it does because Basketball and the NBA are considered by most there as something they export and a way of life unlike Hockey which is considered a foreign import. Which goes back to my original post on this topic of New York not needing to be represented by 3 teams in that region. 2 is fine but 3 isn't necessary for the NHL.
The sheer vastness of the NYC metro and its various regions with their own identities is partly why this argument fails (I'll leave aside the enormous population that dwarfs most other markets). Of the 3 teams, one outright - the Devils - does not purport to represent any part of New York and makes no effort to market to its residents. So at most New York has two teams and one of them - the Islanders - draws from a region as separate from NYC as New Jersey.
The Isles need to solve the arena problem and move back to the island or as close to it as possible. There are more than enough acts and demand to support another arena as previously stated. Look at how high MSG, Prudential and Barclays chart on the Pollstar rankings. They all seem to be doing a land office business.
The Tri State area is very diverse and it's not a stretch to say more people like basketball than hockey in NJ especially with the history of Seton Hall, Rutgers and even the Nets. Gordie is right on that point.
Kane One
Registered User
GordonGecko
First Ping Pong Ball
In the end, who cares if someone wants to build a half empty white elephant in a crappy location in the middle of nowhere, so long as it's NOT taxpayer money picking up the tab. If the Islanders can find a sucker, err, investor willing to put up the hundreds of millions then go for it more power to them.
Devils Dominion
Now we Plummet
I've met a decent amount of Devils fans from CT over the years.
A few were former Whalers fans.
New York is so huge that you can split it into 3 metro areas that would all be in the Top 10 in the US. Southern California is a distant second in that regard.
The Rangers, Islanders and Devils all share the same TV territory which is New York City, Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester and Rockland Counties in New York; Fairfield County south of I-84 and west of SR 58 in Connecticut; and Bergen, Hudson, Essex and Union Counties in New Jersey. The Flyers get Gloucester, Camden and Burlington Counties in New Jersey.
The rest of Connecticut gets MSG but MSG Plus is not a given and depends on your provider. NESN (Bruins and Red Sox) is allowed statewide in CT north of I-84 and east of SR 58.
The Devils biggest marketing headache is convincing fans from affluent suburbs like Saddle River ( BTW where Lord Bettman lives ) that they can come to Newark hassle free and that is a perception problem.
Basketball is considered a street game in the Big Urban city of New York. New York mistreats NHL Hockey the way it does because Basketball and the NBA are considered by most there as something they export and a way of life unlike Hockey which is considered a foreign import. Which goes back to my original post on this topic of New York not needing to be represented by 3 teams in that region. 2 is fine but 3 isn't necessary for the NHL.
Anyone who thinks this does not know much about the NY market. If the Devils moved tomorrow, it will not help the Isles gain a significant amount of fans. Same for Devils if the Isles left. NJ and LI are two separate worlds. The hockey fan in NJ is not going to make the treck to LI too often for a game if Devils left. Some might call themselves Isles fans, but they are not going to support them with their wallets all that much. And the same goes the other way around.
Current Devils fans wouldn't flock to the Rangers or Flyers, but in time the younger kids who haven't yet developed an allegiance to the Devils and hatred of the Rangers would as well as future generations. 20 years from now? Yes, you would see North and Central Jersey become a huge Rangers stronghold and most of South Jersey south of around Toms River would be a huge Flyers region. Of course, you would have the older guys still complaining similar to how some older Brooklynites are still complaining about Walter O'Malley, but they are starting to pass on. My dad is 66 and was only 6 when the Dodgers left town. Was a Yankee fan growing up in the late 50s and early 60s. He remembers older brothers and other older relatives of his friends who were Dodgers fans busting chops about all the kids now being Yankees fans.
Basketball is considered a street game in the Big Urban city of New York. New York mistreats NHL Hockey the way it does because Basketball and the NBA are considered by most there as something they export and a way of life unlike Hockey which is considered a foreign import. Which goes back to my original post on this topic of New York not needing to be represented by 3 teams in that region. 2 is fine but 3 isn't necessary for the NHL.
But, that doesn't mean there aren't enough people to like hockey and certainly more than enough money in the area to support all 4 sports and all 9 teams.
Hell there are probably still a plurality of hockey fans in New Jersey that still support the Rangers. But I generally agree.
He's just looking at the arena situation, including this RFP. I don't agree, but this arena problem has been going on since the Isles stopped being good.
Devils Dominion
Now we Plummet
The last paragraph is no longer an issue.
The arena area has been proven very safe on game nights quite a few years ago.
Kane One
Registered User
He's not saying it's unsafe. He's saying there is a perception among some people that it's unsafe.
KevFu
Registered User
Here's a fun trivia question to get people with:
How many towns are there in the state of New Jersey?
None. Everything is a city.
Devils Dominion
Now we Plummet
Devils Dominion
Now we Plummet
edog37
Registered User
go back to 1991 & 1992. Pirates won their division, Pens won the Cup each year. Pens were more popular.
Fact is, the Pirates have turned off an entire generation. That isn't hyperbole, it's fact. Meanwhile, the Pens have taken advantage of it. Getting a couple of playoff berths isn't going to change that dynamic.
edog37
Registered User
I'll say it again as someone who was born & raised there versus an outsider....there isn't an appetite for basketball in Pittsburgh. There just isn't. Sorry to destroy your misinformed narrative, but you clearly don't understand the Pittsburgh market.
