The Panther
Registered User
I think it was actually a 20-year contract.
Yeah, this is more than a stretch.
Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter Gregor Samsa
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DitchMarner
TheGlitchintheSwitch
I don't see him having three Conn Smythes in his career. If the Penguins had won the Cup in 2011, 2012 or 2013, they might not have acquired Kessel and made some of the other changes that helped them win in 2016 and 2017. The Smythe Crosby won in 2016 was weak and disputed. I think he would have needed a considerably better performance to win that year if he had already won a Conn Smythe.
frisco
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame...
Going without saying the following is speculation and there are hundreds of possible outcomes but Crosby was trending for about 130 points in 2010-11 before Steckel. Without the concussion, it is not unrealistic he wins Ross/Hart/Richard that year and keeps rolling the next year and easily beats Malkin's 109 points the next season playing at the same level. So there's the two additional Art Ross and possibly Harts and a Rocket.
As far as the Cup, in 2011 a peak Crosby could've easily made the difference in a 7-game loss to TB. And word was Malkin was ready to return for the second round. So, you have a healthy Pens team with Crosby playing his best hockey in the final eight. Not a lock for the Cup, but likely a favorite.
Also, 2012 Crosby was not the same player and had just played only 22 games that year after sitting out more than a year. Had he been completely healthy it is not outrageous to say the debacle vs. the Flyers doesn't happen and again the Pens are lined up for a Cup. So, 2011 or 2012 could have been Cup years, maybe both (that's a bit of a stretch), again without Steckel.
Even 2013, when PIttsburgh was soundly beaten by Boston in ECF, Crosby had slightly diminished as a player post-concussion and who knows. And the broken jaw from the Orpik blast late that season may have triggered extra symptoms due to the previous concussions.
There is the theory that Crosby was ramping up to a new level before Steckel and even was trending up to that new peak and was robbed by the concussions so everything post-Steckel was sort of blunted even to today.
My Best-Carey
The Pale King
Go easy on those Mango Giapanes brother...
My unpopular hockey opinion is that Sidney Crosby is the most correctly-rated player in NHL history.
Hockeyville USA
Registered User
The Patrik Elias backhand pass to Jason Arnott in 2000 Cup Final Game 6 OT is the greatest pass in NHL history.
- Feb 10, 2010
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Apparently comparing the value of longevity vs peak is a deeply offensive topic.
I truly had no idea how upset people would get over that.
I truly had no idea how upset people would get over that.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
I'm sure it was the topic and not the framing or your history of...interesting thoughts...
- Feb 10, 2010
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Well, that's my unpopular opinion - that peak can be weighed against longevity. How exactly the values work should be a topic of discussion IMO.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Bear of Bad News
"The Worst Guy on the Site" - user feedback
- Sep 27, 2005
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I deleted the bait but Mike took it anyhow, so I'll respond.
@Midnight Judges, speaking as a site admin, I can assure you that it wasn't the topic that people found unpopular. You know exactly what you're doing.
Move on.
@Midnight Judges, speaking as a site admin, I can assure you that it wasn't the topic that people found unpopular. You know exactly what you're doing.
Move on.
Crosby wins the Art Ross, Rocket, Hart and Lindsay in 09/10 if the Pens did not win the SC the year before. He had Cup hangover for the first 1/4 season.
JackSlater
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2010
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I find that surprising since he took the finals off too.
I Hate Blake Coleman
Bandwagon Burner
MadLuke
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2011
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Depends by who,
here yes:
7 Best Toronto Maple Leafs Players of All Time
Explore these legends with my list of the best Toronto Maple Leafs players of all time, including Dave Keon and Mats Sundin.
sports.betmgm.ca
Top 30 greatest Toronto Maple Leafs of all time
The Top 10 Toronto Maple Leafs Players Since 1967
Closer look at the careers of the top 10 Toronto Maple Leafs players since the team last won the Stanley Cup in 1967.
lastwordonsports.com
But when random fan vote:
The Best Toronto Maple Leafs Of All Time
The Toronto Maple Leafs hold a storied history as one of the NHL's original six franchises, producing legendary players who have graced the ice with their exceptional skills. Throughout the years, this esteemed team has been home to some of the best players of all time. Undoubtedly, these...
www.ranker.com
Down to number 8.
Scotty Bowman had him above H.Richard, Messier, Ray bourquer, Sakic, Yzerman, etc... so according to some even he is regarded as the best leaf ever he can still be underrated by some, hfboards had him #99 below Mark Howe, Elmer Lach, Tim Horton in the last top 100 of all time for example.
GarlicbreadTB
Registered User
- Apr 16, 2015
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Outside of maybe 2000 Playoffs. Bobby Clarke never put together a team good enough to win a Stanley Cup during the Lindros era. So it's no wonder he never won one.
This to a tee. Outside of the legion of doom line and Brind Amour they had nothing. Desjardins was a border line legit number 1 dman and the goaltending was always a carousel and they always filled out the bottom 6 with tough guys. How anyone thought they would beat a much deeper Detroit team in 97 is beyond me. Bringing Recchi back in 99 helped and bringing Primeau in in 2000 did as well but that team in 2000 was still thin very thin in the bottom 6 fs and bottom 4 d.
MadLuke
Registered User
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It depends on what we mean by legit number 1 dman, if we mean would have been the number 1 on your median D core team...
From 99 to 01 he was 5th in the NHL for the most minutes played (4th in minute per games),
Norris..: 4-5-10
all star: 2-2-13
8th among defenceman in points in the league while playing of the first PK units for his team type of player.
Seem like he reached top 16 D in the league clearly with some margin.
Outside Lidstrom-Bourque-Macinnis-Pronger-Blake-Zubov-Stevens (some debatable), I am not sure who would have been more number 1 than Desjardins during that time.
Could be a bias of being a Mtl fans, my bar for who would have been a number 1D or first liner on my team was quite low... Malakhov when from number 1 issh on my team to number 4 on the Devils and Rangers right after.
vadim sharifijanov
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2007
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yeah desjardins was solidly in the 4th to 10th best dmen in the league range for the entirety of the second half of the 90s. if that’s not a bona fide number one, then almost nobody has one.
The Red Wings win the 2009 Stanley Cup if the NHL doesn't force them to play their next playoff series before they are ready.
MarkusNaslund19
Registered User
- Dec 28, 2005
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I think this is hindsight bias.
The 97 Flyers were an absolute runaway train in the playoffs until they met Detroit.
The Rangers were such a neat team that year with Gretzky and Messier (f*** Messier, but that was to come) giving it one last hurrah. And then the Flyers came in and just dominated them.
Then, against Detroit the prevailing wisdom was that Konstantinov would be used as a fire against fire sort of match up.
It's a somewhat underrated coaching genius move of Bowman where he completely outmatched Terry "we're choking" Murray by putting the cerebral Lidstrom and Murphy against them and shutting them down.
But nobody saw that coming at the time. Everyone was measuring the Flyers for cup rings. So to use hindsight bias to say 'nobody thought they could do it' is just factually incorrect.
MadLuke
Registered User
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I do remember favoring the Flyers that year and my friend that played and knew hockey way more than me, just said: Detroit did just beat Colorado, the Flyers has no chance as almost a matter of fact.
When the Wings won against the 107 points Sakic-Lemieux-Kamensky-Forsberg-Young-Ricci-Keane-Deadmarsh Avs, we should have knew without a doubt they were heavy favorite.
Klemm-Gusarov-Miller-Lefevre-Ozolinsh-Foote, those are all Top 4 or better ds that would on some team play 22+ minutes in the playoff type, with Roy in net. Forsberg as often was not fully there, but still, that was a better team than the Flyers that just won the cup and sound logic.
But yes nobody thought is incorrect... I thought they could, but in hindsight they never faced a RedWings-Colorado team in their journey, not close to it.
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Of course, the Rangers were top heavy too, especially after all the injuries they sustained. The first time I saw Dallas Eakins was as an AHL defender they called up to play as a winger against Philadelphia.
frisco
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame...
But they took the first two games at home in that series. Hard to say they weren't rested or well-prepared to start.
My Best-Carey
frisco
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame...
That may be true. But Lindros could have stayed in Quebec after being drafted and teamed up with Sakic, Sundin, et al, for multiple Cups if he hadn't been such horse's ass in the first place.
My Best-Carey
The Panther
Registered User
I don't think the Flyers were heavy favorites before the 1997 Finals. They were probably more talked about by the hockey media because they were the new, shiny toy, but I don't think hockey people distinctly favored them. Detroit's problem with media hype then was that they'd developed a bit of a choke reputation, and had already had their Finals hype two years earlier.
