GDT: UFC 311: Makhachev vs. Moicano

[I am not exposed]

So a bit of chatter about Merab being the greatest Bantamweight of all time. I think he needs some title defenses tbh. Still have it as Cruz. With Sterling having a decent shout as well.

 

[16Skippy]

He beat all the legit lightweight contenders already, and it sounds like Arman blew his chance. He was the only guy who actually looked competitive against Islam. I'm a big fan of Oliveira but he'll get destroyed again(By Islam), that fight doesn't do much for me. He had nothing for Islam in the first fight. Gaethje or Hooker have no business in the cage with him, even if one wins in spectacular fashion. Has to be Topuria or Arman if the fight takes place at 155, and the latter seems unlikely based on recent comments.

None of the rematches really do anything for Islam's legacy since he already smoked them, I just don't see the point of him wasting another weight cut like that unless it's for something special.

Islam's the man and I believe he's by far the best LW but they've given him a FW twice (once on short notice), a fan favorite who did not deserve a shot, and another short notice replacement.

If the winner of Hooker-Gaethje looks great I'd have no problem with them getting a shot.

Arman would be ideal but it doesn't seem like Dana is going to give Arman the next shot, so a #1 contender fight might need to happen. And we don't know what his recovery timeline is (if it is even really an injury and not a doping violation).

 

[bov]

Islam's the man and I believe he's by far the best LW but they've given him a FW twice (once on short notice), a fan favorite who did not deserve a shot, and another short notice replacement.

If the winner of Hooker-Gaethje looks great I'd have no problem with them getting a shot.

Arman would be ideal but it doesn't seem like Dana is going to give Arman the next shot, so a #1 contender fight might need to happen. And we don't know what his recovery timeline is (if it is even really an injury and not a doping violation).

Islam made Hooker look like a child in their fight. He could've won blindfolded. Gaethje hasn't fought him yet, so he has that going for him, but the guy is 3-3 in his last six and just got ktfo by a featherweight (love Max don't get me wrong). I don't see how a Gaethje fight does anything at all for Islam's legacy. But it's an easy paycheck and not a rematch so I guess I'll give it a slight chance of happening with a crazy finish by Gaethje over Hooker.

I'm 100% still on board with the Arman rematch and prefer that over any other at 155, just going by Dana's comments after the recent event. Yes you can make the 145er argument with Volk/Ilia but we're talking about 2 of the most exceptional fighters in recent memory. They deserve these opportunities over essential journeymen who Islam already took out.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

I feel like I haven't seen you post these anytime recently before now. Is this a Cali thing and we don't normally get em from Neveda hosted events?

 

[MMC]

I feel like I haven't seen you post these anytime recently before now. Is this a Cali thing and we don't normally get em from Neveda hosted events?

Yep only a few states do the weigh in on fight day

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Merab is unbelievable. I know he's been getting all kinds of praise after this performance but I'd still argue he's underrated. Umar is legit, and Merab, I don't wanna say dominated, but comfortably controlled the later rounds. His pace is likely the best ever. And I know some don't, but I find him extremely entertaining.

Not much to say about Islam, he dominated a guy everyone expected him to. Credit to him for taking the fight on virtually no notice though - nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Probably sounds crazy but I'm not COMPLETELY sold on him yet as an all-timer. Volk gave him real problems in their first fight. Not that that is that damning, but Poirier and Oliveira have holes, and they've been there for years. Khabib would dominate Islam IMO.

Good to see Jiri dispose of Hill, I've had my fill of him. I typically have no interest in third fights where the same guy lost both times, but Jiri is one of a very small handful of guys you feel like actually could beat Pereira.

 

[Taytro]

Probably sounds crazy but I'm not COMPLETELY sold on him yet as an all-timer. Volk gave him real problems in their first fight. Not that that is that damning, but Poirier and Oliveira have holes, and they've been there for years. Khabib would dominate Islam IMO.

While Khabib excelled at wrestling more than anyone we've ever seen, Islam is significantly more well rounded. Islam's striking is years ahead of Khabib, while Islam still manages to dominate in the wrestling the same way Khabib did.

I'm not saying Islam is better by any means but comparing the two is really difficult. The two guys you're saying Islam beat but have "holes" is silly considering Khabib's notable wins were Justin, Dustin, and Connor. Islam already has more UFC wins and more title defenses than Khabib so, it's hard to dismiss him.

 

[Nakatomi]

While Khabib excelled at wrestling more than anyone we've ever seen, Islam is significantly more well rounded. Islam's striking is years ahead of Khabib, while Islam still manages to dominate in the wrestling the same way Khabib did.

I'm not saying Islam is better by any means but comparing the two is really difficult. The two guys you're saying Islam beat but have "holes" is silly considering Khabib's notable wins were Justin, Dustin, and Connor. Islam already has more UFC wins and more title defenses than Khabib so, it's hard to dismiss him.

Plus Conor in retrospect was not the best win, imo. The guy only ever has one win ever at that weight class and their fight came after a crazy long layoff and changes to his style around the Mayweather fight.

Still a needed win for Khabib's legacy but really not proving that much in terms of all-time discussions imo.

 

[bov]

Khabib just seemed impossible to finish, especially by KO. Whereas Islam has been knocked out before and doesn't have that same aura of invincibility. Skill for skill he may have more weapons, but aside from a more polished standup game I don't see where he would get the better of Khabib. One or two more wins and Islam probably takes over but I'm leaning Khabib right now.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

While Khabib excelled at wrestling more than anyone we've ever seen, Islam is significantly more well rounded. Islam's striking is years ahead of Khabib, while Islam still manages to dominate in the wrestling the same way Khabib did.

I'm not saying Islam is better by any means but comparing the two is really difficult. The two guys you're saying Islam beat but have "holes" is silly considering Khabib's notable wins were Justin, Dustin, and Connor. Islam already has more UFC wins and more title defenses than Khabib so, it's hard to dismiss him.

Everything you said is correct, and I think most would probably agree with you. And you're right, Khabib probably doesn't have any better wins than Islam. I just feel like Khabib was more dominant, more confident, and I'd be more shocked to see him lose.

I could be remembering wrong, but I wanna say Poirier was competitive against Islam, and Volk damn near beat him the first time. And then Islam has obviously been flatlined once as well. Khabib is the most dominant fighter ever IMO, with Jones a close second.

I feel like Khabib is able to impose his will better than any fighter ever. Aside from his fight with Tibau but I'd argue that was before his prime.

There's definitely something to be said for the Jones/GSP style where they'll outwrestle wrestlers and outstrike strikers, but Khabib's dominance is unparalleled IMO.

Khabib just seemed impossible to finish, especially by KO. Whereas Islam has been knocked out before and doesn't have that same aura of invincibility. Skill for skill he may have more weapons, but aside from a more polished standup game I don't see where he would get the better of Khabib. One or two more wins and Islam probably takes over but I'm leaning Khabib right now.

Absolutely. And just me personally, even with one or two more wins, it's still Khabib for me. But yes, objectively, Islam would have to get the nod.

Say Islam beat a guy like Usman or Edwards, that really vaults his status. BUT, I think Khabib beats them as well.

 

[I am not exposed]

Volk didn't nearly beat him the first time. It was a pretty obvious victory for Islam. People get carried away because Volk really went for it in round 5. But winning round 5 does not mean he won the fight.

Also, your first comment was you don't consider Islam to be an all time great. Why is it either or with Khabib? They can only be one all time great in a division? They are both going to go down as all time greats. Khabib was more dominant. But Islam has more tools (I doubt Khabib could head kick TKO someone).

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Volk didn't nearly beat him the first time. It was a pretty obvious victory for Islam. People get carried away because Volk really went for it in round 5. But winning round 5 does not mean he won the fight.

Also, your first comment was you don't consider Islam to be an all time great. Why is it either or with Khabib? They can only be one all time great in a division? They are both going to go down as all time greats. Khabib was more dominant. But Islam has more tools (I doubt Khabib could head kick TKO someone).

That's fair. Khabib's probably the only 55er I'd pick over Islam, ever, so that certainly makes him an all-timer at 55.

I'd have to rewatch the fight to give a really fair assessment of it, but Volk had more significant strikes, and more MMA media scored the fight for Volk than scored it 49-46 for Islam, so I feel like Volk gave him all he could handle.

 

[pistolpete11]

Merab is unbelievable. I know he's been getting all kinds of praise after this performance but I'd still argue he's underrated. Umar is legit, and Merab, I don't wanna say dominated, but comfortably controlled the later rounds. His pace is likely the best ever. And I know some don't, but I find him extremely entertaining.

The pace makes him more entertaining than your typical wrestlef*** kind of wrestler, but something is still missing. MMA is so exciting because anything can happen at any point, but it never really feels like that with Merab IMO.

 

[pistolpete11]

I'd put Khabib in front of Islam for now because of his dominance. He lost what...2 rounds....in his UFC career? 1 vs. Conor when he basically took the round off because he was tired from beating the living shit of him and winning the previous round 10-8. And 1 vs. Gaethje where the judges were split 2-1.

Islam's got KO'ed, lost 2 rounds to Volk, lost 2 rounds to Poirier, and I'm to lazy to look it up, but possibly more to other guys he ended up finishing, too.

BUT, if he keeps going he could overtake Khabib. Khabib is in that Cain category where everyone says "He was so dominant that he would have beat anybody" and that may be true, but he didn't. Dominance is a factor IMO, but it doesn't outweigh having 3-4-5+ more title defenses. Same reason why I'd say Stipe is the GHWOAT and not Cain.