GDT: UFA Frenzy 2024 - We're ALL Gonna Die

[Boom Boom Apathy]

You remember the Nino trade was made in January, right?

Yes it is warranted and not at all premature to freak out when the team bleeds talent in July/August leading to a weakened roster and poor first half of the season. Correcting that with improvements in the second half is great but not guaranteed.

To make it as simple as possible — if Nino doesn’t play some of the best hockey of his career for a few weeks after that trade, the Canes likely miss the playoffs and none of this narrative exists. Are we seriously counting on that kind of lucky break right now, to explain why it’s fine that we just lost an entire 5-man unit from our top 6?


The Canes were a much better team in 2024 than in 2018, sure. Nobody’s saying otherwise. Of course we’re loaded with more proven players now.

But “more proven” isn’t the measure of quality. Jordan Staal in 2018 was a much, much better player than he will be in 2025. Kuzy is a proven commodity and that is exactly the problem, we know what he is and it isn’t great. Kotkaniemi is becoming an anchor and his continued presence in the organization will be a head scratcher unless he shows up as a new man. Most importantly, Aho may not have been a proven center but he was in reality a #1C in the making. Barring an absolute miracle of player development, we do not have anything like that in our lineup right now.

Long story short, in 2018 we were hoping a handful of unproven Cs might come together and be a solid group. In 2024, we already know they won’t. We have Aho and that’s it. And it gets a whole lot worse when injuries and slumps hit.

At the end of the day, the problem we’re facing is that the 2024 team was heavily bolstered by depth which gave us some really nice matchup dynamics and allowed guys like Jarvis and Necas to thrive up and down the lineup. That depth no longer exists. Now we have a much less impressive defensive group, we’re weak down the middle, our goaltending is inconsistent at its very best. So we’re looking to wingers like Svech and Necas, who have never carried much, to suddenly step up and be the kinds of studs who carry a team.

It’s just not a good formula. If they make the playoffs, and I’d give them about an 80% chance on that, this is not a group that’s going to go anywhere. We don’t have Brock McGinns and Warren Foegeles all over the lineup. The one thing that might bail us out is improved goaltending, but again that’s just another “if” on a really large pile of “ifs”.

Ok. You're justifying this by arguing what "could have" happened vs. what actually DID happen. I'll stick with the reality of the final results. I'm fine with that and if you don't agree, no problem.

I've already explained 3 or 4 times why I personally think it's premature to freak out so I won't repeat it and won't get into a long drawn out argument with you. If you want to freak-out, have at it.

Like I said a bunch of times already, I do think they'll take a step back this year, and how much of a step still depends on a lot of factors, so I'm not going to over-react about it right now. I'll reserve judgement until later on when the roster is complete and we see what some of the young guys can bring. To each their own though.

As I said in another post, I'm excited about the season partially because of the unknown and how it may play out. They could struggle. They could do well. The young guys could be fast and exciting. Heck, they might even miss the playoffs. Still excited to see it play out.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

All you guys freaking out about all of this would’ve never lasted in Nam…

 

[Derailed75]

You remember the Nino trade was made in January, right?

Yes it is warranted and not at all premature to freak out when the team bleeds talent in July/August leading to a weakened roster and poor first half of the season. Correcting that with improvements in the second half is great but not guaranteed.

To make it as simple as possible — if Nino doesn’t play some of the best hockey of his career for a few weeks after that trade, the Canes likely miss the playoffs and none of this narrative exists. Are we seriously counting on that kind of lucky break right now, to explain why it’s fine that we just lost an entire 5-man unit from our top 6?




The Canes were a much better team in 2024 than in 2018, sure. Nobody’s saying otherwise. Of course we’re loaded with more proven players now.

But “more proven” isn’t the measure of quality. Jordan Staal in 2018 was a much, much better player than he will be in 2025. Kuzy is a proven commodity and that is exactly the problem, we know what he is and it isn’t great. Kotkaniemi is becoming an anchor and his continued presence in the organization will be a head scratcher unless he shows up as a new man. Most importantly, Aho may not have been a proven center but he was in reality a #1C in the making. Barring an absolute miracle of player development, we do not have anything like that in our lineup right now.

Long story short, in 2018 we were hoping a handful of unproven Cs might come together and be a solid group. In 2024, we already know they won’t. We have Aho and that’s it. And it gets a whole lot worse when injuries and slumps hit.

At the end of the day, the problem we’re facing is that the 2024 team was heavily bolstered by depth which gave us some really nice matchup dynamics and allowed guys like Jarvis and Necas to thrive up and down the lineup. That depth no longer exists. Now we have a much less impressive defensive group, we’re weak down the middle, our goaltending is inconsistent at its very best. So we’re looking to wingers like Svech and Necas, who have never carried much, to suddenly step up and be the kinds of studs who carry a team.

It’s just not a good formula. If they make the playoffs, and I’d give them about an 80% chance on that, this is not a group that’s going to go anywhere. We don’t have Brock McGinns and Warren Foegeles all over the lineup. The one thing that might bail us out is improved goaltending, but again that’s just another “if” on a really large pile of “ifs”.

Most of what you posted is an If to the negative. Also most of it is worst case scenario. Its funny you mention Brock and Warren, while I like thise guys while they were here they are the epitome of an NHL plug/JAG (just another guy).

The tip end players on the upcoming team are much better than they were in 2019 and the rest of the roster is pretty damn close to the same. The biggest difference is the coaching staff in already in place and not trying to get the guys to learn their system.

All you guys freaking out about all of this would’ve never lasted in Nam…

Hell most wouldn't have lasted in the post "war" gulf arena

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

All you guys freaking out about all of this would’ve never lasted in Nam…

I know it's a joke, but interestingly enough a family friend took his grandkids fishing at our pond at the farm this morning and as we sat on the bench, he told us stories of his time in Nam. They just had the last reunion of their division, only 12 guys left he said. Most of them died of cancer as they were sprayed with Agent Orange. He talked about having to turn "normal" guys into killers and how badly they were treated when they came back. After Nam, he went to college and was prohibited from living in the dorm and one professor called him a "baby killer" and was going to fail him regardless until he got a lawyer involved. Needless to say after hearing his stories, few of us would have lasted in Nam.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I know it's a joke, but interestingly enough a family friend took his grandkids fishing at our pond at the farm this morning and as we sat on the bench, he told us stories of his time in Nam. They just had the last reunion of their division, only 12 guys left he said. Most of them died of cancer as they were sprayed with Agent Orange. He talked about having to turn "normal" guys into killers and how badly they were treated when they came back. After Nam, he went to college and was prohibited from living in the dorm and one professor called him a "baby killer" and was going to fail him regardless until he got a lawyer involved. Needless to say after hearing his stories, few of us would have lasted in Nam.

What does he think of the Canes offseason so far?

 

[Derailed75]

I know it's a joke, but interestingly enough a family friend took his grandkids fishing at our pond at the farm this morning and as we sat on the bench, he told us stories of his time in Nam. They just had the last reunion of their division, only 12 guys left he said. Most of them died of cancer as they were sprayed with Agent Orange. He talked about having to turn "normal" guys into killers and how badly they were treated when they came back. After Nam, he went to college and was prohibited from living in the dorm and one professor called him a "baby killer" and was going to fail him regardless until he got a lawyer involved. Needless to say after hearing his stories, few of us would have lasted in Nam.

As a vet myself hearing stories of how those guys were treated when they returned home makes my stomach turn. I absolutely believe in the freedom to express displeasure with the government but the idiots who took that out on the vets (a lot of whom were drafted) should have been shipped out to another country. Most of us even if we volunteered are willing to fight but would rather not but most Nam vets didn't even want to be there and certainly didn't want to get treated like subhumans after going through months of or more of hell.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

What does he think of the Canes offseason so far?

he was very positive, almost giddy.

to be transparent, he's a fan of a different Metro team.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Why is Detroit clearing out so much cap still? I don't think Seider and Raymond are going to cost THAT much.

 

[MyLuckyPuck]

Draisaitl-stakes.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

he was very positive, almost giddy.

to be transparent, he's a fan of a different Metro team.

By the way, this is one of the fish they caught in the pond.

 

[Unsustainable]

I know it's a joke, but interestingly enough a family friend took his grandkids fishing at our pond at the farm this morning and as we sat on the bench, he told us stories of his time in Nam. They just had the last reunion of their division, only 12 guys left he said. Most of them died of cancer as they were sprayed with Agent Orange. He talked about having to turn "normal" guys into killers and how badly they were treated when they came back. After Nam, he went to college and was prohibited from living in the dorm and one professor called him a "baby killer" and was going to fail him regardless until he got a lawyer involved. Needless to say after hearing his stories, few of us would have lasted in Nam.

My dad was in Nam in 1967, Marine Corps. He made it 9 months before getting wounded out from a mortar round putting shrapnel in his head and back.

As his Corpsman says, I died to Agent Orange in 1967, it just hadn't finished yet. Know other members of his unit that died from it.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

As a vet myself hearing stories of how those guys were treated when they returned home makes my stomach turn. I absolutely believe in the freedom to express displeasure with the government but the idiots who took that out on the vets (a lot of whom were drafted) should have been shipped out to another country. Most of us even if we volunteered are willing to fight but would rather not but most Nam vets didn't even want to be there and certainly didn't want to get treated like subhumans after going through months of or more of hell.

That’s brutal…

@tarheelhockey please read and next time think before you post.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

By the way, this is one of the fish they caught in the pond. View attachment 892029

That fishy is bigger than the Canes Fishy.

 

[cptjeff]

The only thing Noesen is better than Martinook at is planting his butt in front of the goalie on the 2nd unit PP. I think we get blinded by offense sometimes.

That is not a remotely insignificant skill.

 

[Derailed75]

That’s brutal…

@tarheelhockey please read and next time think before you post.

Unless its been deleted Tarheel said nothing wrong.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Ok. You're justifying this by arguing what "could have" happened vs. what actually DID happen. I'll stick with the reality of the final results. I'm fine with that and if you don't agree, no problem.

Ok, so on that note the present reality is that this team just lost half its top-of-lineup players without replacing anything or significantly moving pieces into place for the future. You’re talking about what “could happen” in terms of a Nino-like home run trade to turn the tide, which goes against all likelihood.

I agree it could still be an entertaining season, potentially a memorable one. Despite the liberal use of “freakout” in this thread, nobody is having some sort of mental meltdown here. It’s just a bad week for the franchise. We’re likely facing a full year of watching a poorly constructed group playing inconsistent hockey. People are going to react negatively to negative news, that’s all.

Most of what you posted is an If to the negative.

It’s not an “if” that this center group is very weak, that the D group is no longer a particular strength, that our goaltending is very inconsistent, and that we are counting on B-tier wingers who (outside of Jarvis) have not consistently delivered the goods. All of those are proven commodities.

Subjectively, it’s not just that this group is less talented than before. It’s also poorly constructed. Maybe something changes in the next few weeks, but this group doesn’t look capable of playing above its on-paper level the way the 2019-24 teams did. That’s a problem that reaches beyond the current season, and scenarios like this often generate follow-on issues (like coaching criticism) which have longer range impacts.

Also most of it is worst case scenario. Its funny you mention Brock and Warren, while I like thise guys while they were here they are the epitome of an NHL plug/JAG (just another guy).

Right, but they were really good in those roster-filler roles. When they left the team the consensus among our fanbase was that they were doing a lot more than their numbers suggested. They weren’t like a Lemieux where you can’t really identify why he’s still given a roster spot.

The tip end players on the upcoming team are much better than they were in 2019 and the rest of the roster is pretty damn close to the same. The biggest difference is the coaching staff in already in place and not trying to get the guys to learn their system.

Time will tell on this. We have quite a few players who need to have healthy and high-quality seasons to match their 2019 counterparts. It’s unlikely that they’ll all come through, as injuries and off-years and “failure to launch” are very real in any given season.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yawn. I won’t be drawn in.

 

[tarheelhockey]

All you guys freaking out about all of this would’ve never lasted in Nam…

“Hey guy, this looks like a plan that could easily go sideways and send us off in a direction that’s hard to recover from… maybe there just isn’t a positive outcome to this no matter how hard we squint at think about positives…”

You just might be right about this

 

[the halleJOKEL]

i'm bored do something

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yawn.

Just keeping this going until you fall asleep on the couch watching golf

 

[LakeLivin]

As a vet myself hearing stories of how those guys were treated when they returned home makes my stomach turn. I absolutely believe in the freedom to express displeasure with the government but the idiots who took that out on the vets (a lot of whom were drafted) should have been shipped out to another country. Most of us even if we volunteered are willing to fight but would rather not but most Nam vets didn't even want to be there and certainly didn't want to get treated like subhumans after going through months of or more of hell.

I heard from a respected source that they were suckers and losers, especially the ones who were stupid enough to die in service to their country. Just sayin, disrespect wasn't limited to the 60s.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Just keeping this going until you fall asleep on the couch watching golf

I can’t. You freaked out and broke my TV.

 

[Chan790]

Ok. You're justifying this by arguing what "could have" happened vs. what actually DID happen. I'll stick with the reality of the final results. I'm fine with that and if you don't agree, no problem.

I've already explained 3 or 4 times why I personally think it's premature to freak out so I won't repeat it and won't get into a long drawn out argument with you. If you want to freak-out, have at it.

Like I said a bunch of times already, I do think they'll take a step back this year, and how much of a step still depends on a lot of factors, so I'm not going to over-react about it right now. I'll reserve judgement until later on when the roster is complete and we see what some of the young guys can bring. To each their own though.

As I said in another post, I'm excited about the season partially because of the unknown and how it may play out. They could struggle. They could do well. The young guys could be fast and exciting. Heck, they might even miss the playoffs. Still excited to see it play out.

Beyond all this...our future is bright. We have several exceptional prospects 1-2 years out, including the best defenseman in the world not currently in the NHL.

Aho could get hurt for the season opening night, our goalie tandem could meltdown, Necas could sit out before netting us a futures-only trade, and we could limp to a bottom-5 finish...and have no negative impacts on 2025-2026. It might even improve our future by netting us the top-line scorer we lack in a Guentzel replacement.

For an organization that is literally the model organization and is positioned to be good for a very very long time, some people are running around like it's "the bad old days of PK" because we might have one weak season.

 

[Derailed75]

Ok, so on that note the present reality is that this team just lost half its top-of-lineup players without replacing anything or significantly moving pieces into place for the future. You’re talking about what “could happen” in terms of a Nino-like home run trade to turn the tide, which goes against all likelihood.

I agree it could still be an entertaining season, potentially a memorable one. Despite the liberal use of “freakout” in this thread, nobody is having some sort of mental meltdown here. It’s just a bad week for the franchise. We’re likely facing a full year of watching a poorly constructed group playing inconsistent hockey. People are going to react negatively to negative news, that’s all.



It’s not an “if” that this center group is very weak, that the D group is no longer a particular strength, that our goaltending is very inconsistent, and that we are counting on B-tier wingers who (outside of Jarvis) have not consistently delivered the goods. All of those are proven commodities.

Subjectively, it’s not just that this group is less talented than before. It’s also poorly constructed. Maybe something changes in the next few weeks, but this group doesn’t look capable of playing above its on-paper level the way the 2019-24 teams did. That’s a problem that reaches beyond the current season, and scenarios like this often generate follow-on issues (like coaching criticism) which have longer range impacts.




Right, but they were really good in those roster-filler roles. When they left the team the consensus among our fanbase was that they were doing a lot more than their numbers suggested. They weren’t like a Lemieux where you can’t really identify why he’s still given a roster spot.




Time will tell on this. We have quite a few players who need to have healthy and high-quality seasons to match their 2019 counterparts. It’s unlikely that they’ll all come through, as injuries and off-years and “failure to launch” are very real in any given season.

What do you mean time will tell on this? SVech despite injuries continues to get better,Aho !nd Jarvis improve their numbers every year and its been proven that the defensive system is hard to get and litteraly every single Dman we have brought in has been better in year 2. Orlov improved greatly towards the end of the year. Theres also Kuzy who came in from a trade out of shape, he had mentioned before wanting to play for Rod so I would say chances are he will come in much better shape than after the trade.

I would say you are really reaching thinking are top players take a step back.

 

[Derailed75]

I heard from a respected source that they were suckers and losers, especially the ones who were stupid enough to die in service to their country. Just sayin, disrespect wasn't limited to the 60s.

While true the volume of the hate for them was never louder.