GWT: UCL Matchweek 2 & 3

Savi

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Dec 3, 2006
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Bruges, Belgium
Zirkzee has looked quite average in the Belgian League, I don't think he is future Bayern starter quality

The coach of Malmö, Jon Dahl Tomasson is a wandering joke. Horrible horrible coach. Using so many offensive players against teams like Juve, Chelski and Zenith is madness. No wonder we get 4-0 losses all the time. Our only chance is to play with 8 extreme defensive players than 2 target forwards. Hell even then we would loose but atleast it would be with 2-0 rather than 4-0 5-0.

Thought i gotta say i like Jon Dahl as a person and he was a great player, but he is shit coach

Whats the point of playing ultra defensive if you're going to lose anyway as well? Look, the teams we root for (Malmö, Club Brugge) aren't going to win the CL, and I don't really care we lost 5-1 to City this week trying to play our own game. I would not be more happy losing only 0-2 while parking the bus.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Dec 8, 2013
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Bayern had a young winger who looks really good. Can't remember his name. I think he's probably about 17 now. Kid looked the business when I was scouting for that keeper league that fell through. I did draft Zirkzee in said draft, but it was in the U-23 draft and after I'd already drafted Haaland and Gouiri. Smart move for him to move away and get minutes. I didn't see him as a silver bullet, but I thought he looked good.

What's the consensus on Musiala? From the little I've seen I didn't think he looked quite as good as the hype.

Oliver Batista-Meier. He’s now 20. He won’t make it. He didn’t develop that well the last few years. The next player to likely break through will probably come from their 2005 crop, which is the best in Germany and has multiple very talented players. @cgf probably knows more about those players than I do.

As to Musiala, he’s a great young player. One of the best young players in the world. He’ll be a starter for Bayern very soon.
 

les Habs

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Sep 21, 2005
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Oliver Batista-Meier. He’s now 20. He won’t make it. He didn’t develop that well the last few years. The next player to likely break through will probably come from their 2005 crop, which is the best in Germany and has multiple very talented players. @cgf probably knows more about those players than I do.

As to Musiala, he’s a great young player. One of the best young players in the world. He’ll be a starter for Bayern very soon.

Don't think that was his name and he's surely not 20. I think he was too young to draft per the rules so I'm guessing he's only 17 now.
 

cgf

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Oct 15, 2010
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Bayern had a young winger who looks really good. Can't remember his name. I think he's probably about 17 now. Kid looked the business when I was scouting for that keeper league that fell through. I did draft Zirkzee in said draft, but it was in the U-23 draft and after I'd already drafted Haaland and Gouiri. Smart move for him to move away and get minutes. I didn't see him as a silver bullet, but I thought he looked good.

What's the consensus on Musiala? From the little I've seen I didn't think he looked quite as good as the hype.

Bayern seems to have some ridiculously talented attackers in those early-mid-2000s age groups down in the academy.

Arijon Ibrahimovic & Paul Wanner, both late-2005 birthdays, get compared to Havertz/Musiala/Wirtz even by non-Bayern people...some folks in german youth football have even made comments implying that they don't think that Moukoko is the most talented german kid in his age group, when talking about those two...though I haven't seen them play much, so I dunno how much of that is pure hype & how much of that is legit. What I have seen does look really exciting, but they're so far away that it's tough to say.

Amongst the 2004 born kids; Yusuf Kabadayi is considered a similar caliber talent on the Bayern campus, though he's out until the new year after shoulder surgery & the turks are still hoping to poach him. And they also have Lucas Copado...whom I've seen in some friendlies and was even more impressed by than I was by the 2003-born Armindo Sieb*...Copado is also really highly thought of by Bayern people and has gotten a lot of love (& personal attention) from Nagelsmann.

*who himself looks like an interesting talent on the wing or upfront; where he has played well for the U19 NT.


He might have hit a bit of a wall recently, but I think the world of Musiala & am so happy that Bayern stole him for us. He leads the BuLi in successful-dribbles/90 with good reason and has a real knack for creating space for himself to shoot, already. The kid still needs further polish and his body still needs a lot of work before he can carry them game-in-&-game-out...but he was starting over Gnabry to begin the season & deserved to be, despite Serge being in excellent form this season.


I've become a Zirkzee optimist because I wasn't really high on him at the youth levels at all, but he has continually improved & raised his skillset to the point where I can see him being a reliable backup for them; a la Pizarro or Choupo Moting. Even if I'm still skeptical he will ever have the necessary quality to start for them, I have a hard time capping kids who just keep improving like he has.


E:
On the topic of Musiala's dribbling stats:

 
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Pavel Buchnevich

"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Dec 8, 2013
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I also like Zirkzee. I think he's very underrated. He'd be able to play when Lewandowski needs a rest. I think he can at least be as good as Choupo-Moting. But he's only a short-term option at Bayern. For the benefit of his career, he should probably ask for a permanent move in the summer.

I think some of these other guys are going to be able to help Bayern. They will probably play some games for them over the course of a few years, but I think the caliber needed for an academy player on pretty low wages with no transfer fee attached to break into a very veteran squad that is also one of the best teams in the world probably means that players such as Sieb, Tilmann, Rhein, Booth are all going to eventually be moved onto other clubs at a good level where they'll have good careers. Maybe they are sent back to Bayern years later, but these guys have to establish themselves first. Richards is going through that right now. I suspect once they find some better stability at RB that Stanisic will be moved on. Stiller made a good decision to avoid the year or two waiting period, and move on his own.

I tend to think at a club like Bayern once a player from the same age group has broken through to the first team and you haven't, thats probably a good indication you won't. I would suggest that all their players 2003 or older aren't going to be able to break through. Musiala was already pulled from the academy and given the platform to break through. Others weren't, and they shouldn't expect to.
 

cgf

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Oct 15, 2010
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I also like Zirkzee. I think he's very underrated. He'd be able to play when Lewandowski needs a rest. I think he can at least be as good as Choupo-Moting. But he's only a short-term option at Bayern. For the benefit of his career, he should probably ask for a permanent move in the summer.

I think some of these other guys are going to be able to help Bayern. They will probably play some games for them over the course of a few years, but I think the caliber needed for an academy player on pretty low wages with no transfer fee attached to break into a very veteran squad that is also one of the best teams in the world probably means that players such as Sieb, Tilmann, Rhein, Booth are all going to eventually be moved onto other clubs at a good level where they'll have good careers. Maybe they are sent back to Bayern years later, but these guys have to establish themselves first. Richards is going through that right now. I suspect once they find some better stability at RB that Stanisic will be moved on. Stiller made a good decision to avoid the year or two waiting period, and move on his own.

I tend to think at a club like Bayern once a player from the same age group has broken through to the first team and you haven't, thats probably a good indication you won't. I would suggest that all their players 2003 or older aren't going to be able to break through. Musiala was already pulled from the academy and given the platform to break through. Others weren't, and they shouldn't expect to.

Yeah, it's tough to say what'll happen with this younger generation. It's been a long time since Bayern had this much talent throughout their academy, which could mean we see them integrating more "homegrown" players than they have in recent years. But they are also buying younger than they used to, so they are filling holes with players who can be there for longer and have more growth potential, which could mean they integrate less of their academy kids.

I'm not high on Stanisic & think he's just playing because Bayern didn't have the money to get someone like Baku or Mazraoui this past summer & he's more defensively sound than the other options they had on the farm. So I doubt he's a long-termer for them...I actually think Booth has a better chance of sticking around as a RB option in the long run, as he's taken to that position well for Bayern II; although I will agree that, like many of those kids, he's likely to need to breakthrough elsewhere before getting brought back if he does eventually reach Bayern-level.


Certainly going to be fascinating to see how many of: Bright Arrey-Mbi, Jamie Lawrence, Mamin Sanyang...explosive 2003-born winger that they are in the process of converting into a wingback for their u19s right now...Taylor Booth, Torben Rhein, Eyup Aydin...2004-born deep midfielder who is considered to be another jewel of their academy...Marcel Wenig...2004er who gets a lot of LeGo comps, though I think he's a step or two down from Leon*...Christopher Scott, Malik Tillman, Paul Wanner, Arijon Ibrahimovich, Yusuf Kabadayi, Lucas Copado, Armindo Sieb, Gabriel Vidovic, Nemanja Motika, Grant-Leon Mamedova, etc.;

a) ever reach Bayern-caliber, and b) how many of them need to leave to breakthrough, like Richards/Stiller did & Wenig sounds like he is going to do soon, versus how many can break right in like Musiala & Nianzou.



*I got to watch a 17yo Goretzka in person at the Alte Försterei, so I may be being overly harsh on Wenig & mistaking him not being as advanced as Leon was at the same age, with him not having the same potential/realistic-ceiling.

But I sometimes feel like people are reaching with him just because all of the most talented young german creative midfielders outside of Wenig & Schalke's 2003-born Louis Köster are much smaller...Stiller being the giant of the group at 1.83m, Rhein / Raebiger / Bischof / Geiger (if the injuries are behind him) all being 1.76m or under...unless Tillman ends up moving back to the midfield like Leon did after breaking through for Bochum as a winger/AM.

So I do have some concerns that both Wenig & Köster will prove to be more Osterhage than Goretzka.
 
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