U23: Czechia vs. Slovakia

[Goodman68]

I never said Molnar was a stud forward that would be drafted or that he was right behind Dvorsky. Even in Molnar’s own thread I was basing my views off of what guys like Scott wheeler were hearing around the NHL. I am not at all surprised Molnar wasn’t drafted, that doesn’t mean he’s not the second best 2005 born Slovak forward after Dvorsky. The only thing I’m doing is basing Molnar vs the field.


Didn’t they also say that guys like Kukumberg and Cedzo would be drafted and yet they weren’t? I’m sure none of them had Jedlicka as being drafted. They are going off the best information that they have available. They weren’t talking directly to Chicago’s goaltending coach about how much he’d push for Gajan at 35 vs Hrabal or Fowler or Augustine.

I really don't know what your problem is. Is Gajan a better prospect than Hrabal at the moment? It isn't. I'm laughing at the few spots in the draft. Moreover, when the general opinion is now exactly the opposite. Again, for about the fifth time in this thread, it doesn't say much about a player's future.

 

[Wooren]

Not taking sides on this, but Molnar went undrafted due to the floorball incident.

That played a big role sure, but it's not the only reason he went undrafted.

 

[Czechboy]

No context though?

2022 U18: Slovaks illegally barred from participating by the IIHF

2022 WJC: Cancelled than re started in August with no Slafkovsky, Chromiak, Stacha, Knazko, Nemec, Mesar, Demek playing with a separated shoulder, etc, etc.

2022 Hlinka: No Dvorsky or Strbak

2023 WJC: No Slafkovsky, Demek, Molnar, Honzek injured 10 minutes into the second game of the tournament and never returns

2023 U18: No Molnar.

2023 Hlinka: Czechs deservedly win silver and have a vastly superior 2006 born generation compared to Slovakia.

Czechs also have an amazing history of injuries to our best player... Some fun examples...

World jrs in Prague... Lauko hurt in first period. Jenik hurt in second game. Those were our top two forwards.

Novak got cancer and he looked promising. He may still be. What about Petrs draft year? Or Dvorak's?

World jrs... Jiricek hurt in first period against Canada and out of tourney?

It's why I said we have similar issues with rosters. Our players are all over Europe and CHL... Lots of injuries to star players.

I'm sure I could come up with a few more but I didn't think I was being unfair to the Slovak teams at all ... I'm a fan of the Slovak teams and always cheer for them.
But if you think using results in the age group are unfair then we can go back to depth and number of guys drafted. Or number of guys in NHL. Or please tell me what you feel would be fair. Eg. I said Slovaks have a higher end based on draft spots and goodman disagrees with me on that.

How do you want to break it down? Players, tournaments, NHL games played, positionally? Number of guys drafted? First rounders? The next two drafts and potentially those guys? NHL base? Something else?

 

[Czechboy]

I guess fans know more than NHL scouts! Funny you mention Hrabal and Gajan, shouldn’t Hrabal have been able to beat a Slovak team at the U18’s that had less drafted players than the Czech Republic with Slovakia missing its second best forward? As for where they stand now, Fowler had a much better season than either Gajan or Hrabal and yet went way lower.

Would head to head be a way to do it at these tournaments?

Do you feel one game is how we should judge a goalie?

 

[Goodman68]

Czechs also have an amazing history of injuries to our best player... Some fun examples...

World jrs in Prague... Lauko hurt in first period. Jenik hurt in second game. Those were our top two forwards.

Novak got cancer and he looked promising. He may still be. What about Petrs draft year? Or Dvorak's?

World jrs... Jiricek hurt in first period against Canada and out of tourney?

It's why I said we have similar issues with rosters. Our players are all over Europe and CHL... Lots of injuries to star players.

I'm sure I could come up with a few more but I didn't think I was being unfair to the Slovak teams at all ... I'm a fan of the Slovak teams and always cheer for them.
But if you think using results in the age group are unfair then we can go back to depth and number of guys drafted. Or number of guys in NHL. Or please tell me what you feel would be fair. Eg. I said Slovaks have a higher end based on draft spots and goodman disagrees with me on that.

How do you want to break it down? Players, tournaments, NHL games played, positionally? Number of guys drafted? First rounders? The next two drafts and potentially those guys? NHL base? Something else?

Goodman is just saying that in a year their position has changed for some (logically) and that the difference of a few spots in the second round of the draft is negligible, moreover, when the consensus regarding the potential before and probably after the draft was the opposite for most (scouts and fans) . These are easily verifiable facts. I don't know if I should repeat for the sixth time that it does not decide the future of the player..

 

[Goodman68]

Would head to head be a way to do it at these tournaments?

Do you feel one game is how we should judge a goalie?

It's also funny after the team was literally murdered by the coach's rotten tactics. While two years before, the Czech team regularly defeated the Slovak team. Perhaps the time of these defensive idiots is over..

 

[Antiillafire]

I really don't know what your problem is. Is Gajan a better prospect than Hrabal at the moment? It isn't. I'm laughing at the few spots in the draft. Moreover, when the general opinion is now exactly the opposite. Again, for about the fifth time in this thread, it doesn't say much about a player's future.

When did I deny that positioning in the draft was more important than in season post draft development? Obviously post draft development is more important with one of your own country men being a prime example, Pastrnak.

And you can make arguments that Hrabal is better than Gajan, and it can be a completely valid take I never claimed otherwise. What I argue is that it is actually in the realm of possibility for an nhl organization to have viewed Gajan in higher regard long term than Hrabal.

 

[Antiillafire]

Would head to head be a way to do it at these tournaments?

Do you feel one game is how we should judge a goalie?

No of course it isn’t. I’m simply taking Goodman’s complete dismissal of Gajan as a goalie (Kwame Brown Stephen a smith style ) and jokingly arguing that if Hrabal was that good the threat-less slovak team obviously shouldn’t have stood a chance.

Czechs also have an amazing history of injuries to our best player... Some fun examples...

World jrs in Prague... Lauko hurt in first period. Jenik hurt in second game. Those were our top two forwards.

Novak got cancer and he looked promising. He may still be. What about Petrs draft year? Or Dvorak's?

World jrs... Jiricek hurt in first period against Canada and out of tourney?

It's why I said we have similar issues with rosters. Our players are all over Europe and CHL... Lots of injuries to star players.

I'm sure I could come up with a few more but I didn't think I was being unfair to the Slovak teams at all ... I'm a fan of the Slovak teams and always cheer for them.
But if you think using results in the age group are unfair then we can go back to depth and number of guys drafted. Or number of guys in NHL. Or please tell me what you feel would be fair. Eg. I said Slovaks have a higher end based on draft spots and goodman disagrees with me on that.

How do you want to break it down? Players, tournaments, NHL games played, positionally? Number of guys drafted? First rounders? The next two drafts and potentially those guys? NHL base? Something else?

I never said the Czechs didn’t have injuries, and had players missing or injured part way through tournaments. You were using those international tournaments as a comparative method and I just put that when that plethora and level of player is missing it leaves out room for analysis. Especially considering the Czech team will always have a larger pool of player to choose from. There really is no one singular way as people will always argue for one prospect over another and can argue this and that.

I thought my initial post was pretty fair, arguing that Slovaks have a slight edge at forward, Czech have a slight edge at defense and a bit of a bigger edge at goalie. But Goodman seems to argue that there is a massive gap between the two nations on every front for these prospects discussed.

 

[Goodman68]

When did I deny that positioning in the draft was more important than in season post draft development? Obviously post draft development is more important with one of your own country men being a prime example, Pastrnak.

And you can make arguments that Hrabal is better than Gajan, and it can be a completely valid take I never claimed otherwise. What I argue is that it is actually in the realm of possibility for an nhl organization to have viewed Gajan in higher regard long term than Hrabal.

It's really funny when I write just the facts when it comes to pre-draft predictions, plus a post-draft preview and also how some players' position changed after the D+1 season and you still have the need to contradict me and bring up examples of other players. Gajan was drafted in his second year. This does not indicate a long-term belief in the potential. I don't know if I should repeat myself and laugh at the second round draft difference of nothing and the claim that Gajan is the better prospect. Etc. I guess it's losing its meaning

No of course it isn’t. I’m simply taking Goodman’s complete dismissal of Gajan as a goalie (Kwame Brown Stephen a smith style ) and jokingly arguing that if Hrabal was that good the threat-less slovak team obviously shouldn’t have stood a chance.


I never said the Czechs didn’t have injuries, and had players missing or injured part way through tournaments. You were using those international tournaments as a comparative method and I just put that when that plethora and level of player is missing it leaves out room for analysis. Especially considering the Czech team will always have a larger pool of player to choose from.

I will hope that many of the meanings of the posts are lost in translation, otherwise I really don't know..

 

[Antiillafire]

It's really funny when I write just the facts when it comes to pre-draft predictions, plus a post-draft preview and also how some players' position changed after the D+1 season and you still have the need to contradict me and bring up examples of other players. Gajan was drafted in his second year. This does not indicate a long-term belief in the potential. I don't know if I should repeat myself and laugh at the second round draft difference of nothing and the claim that Gajan is the better prospect. Etc. I guess it's losing its meaning


I will hope that many of the meanings of the posts are lost in translation, otherwise I really don't know..

I never said Gajan was the better prospect in my own view, or that it’s some terrible opinion that Hrabal was viewed as the better prospect before the draft and is still argued to be the better prospect post draft. Again for the 1000th time, I am arguing that it is possible that some teams/head scouts viewed Gajan as the better prospect going into the draft. The athletic did an interview with nhl scouts and executives before the draft and the voting for the question on who was the best goalie in the draft was like 40/40/20 for Hrabal/Gajan/Augustine. That doesn’t mean I think Gajan is the best, or that all teams did or that the average amateur scout who works for elite prospects or recruits did as well.

Anyways I think this thread has pretty much run its course.

 

[dj Mahoney]

Question , Will Michael Krutil ever make the NHL ? Thanks

​

 

[Goodman68]

I never said Gajan was the better prospect in my own view, or that it’s some terrible opinion that Hrabal was viewed as the better prospect before the draft and is still argued to be the better prospect post draft. Again for the 1000th time, I am arguing that it is possible that some teams/head scouts viewed Gajan as the better prospect going into the draft. The athletic did an interview with nhl scouts and executives before the draft and the voting for the question on who was the best goalie in the draft was like 40/40/20 for Hrabal/Gajan/Augustine. That doesn’t mean I think Gajan is the best, or that all teams did or that the average amateur scout who works for elite prospects or recruits did as well.

Anyways I think this thread has pretty much run its course.

You see, I laugh at the idea that Gajan is the better prospect because he was drafted a few spots earlier. Lost in translation as I write.

 

[Czechboy]

Question , Will Michael Krutil ever make the NHL ? Thanks

​

50-50 ... On one hand he has played pro in SEL, AHL and was a full timer in extraliga. So he has some great experience. He was drafted high and has an edge to him. On the other hand... Why he has he bounced around so much?

Note.. I'm a Czech optimist and may be aiming higher than others lol.

 

[Czechboy]

Now that I'm home I thought I'd break it down: 2000 born takes us to roughly the 2018 draft:

Let's do Goalies first!

11 drafted and one has played in NHL

1 drafted goalie

I'm going to say that is more than a slight advantage.

Also, in the NHL:

8 guys with at least 2 games

1 guy and he is currently UFA (although I think he gets an NHL gig)

11 drafted vs 1 (I'll add in Suchanek as an undrafted goalie with some upside as well)
8 in NHL vs 1

 

[Czechboy]

Forwards:

16 guys, Slaf has played 39 games in NHL!

27 guys, Rousek, Blumel, Raska, Lauko, Zadina, Kaut and Jenik have seen NHL time but certainly not much and none are guaranteed starters.

27 to 16.. curious to see how many guys get NHL time this season. Slaf should be a full timer. That's probaly the only 100% bet today.

 

[Czechboy]

And last.. the D

4 guys, all look to become NHL players and Fehervary is already a regular full timer who is excellent

12 guys, I'd put Dvorak, Jiricek, Spacek and Svozil in as likely to make NHL. Kral is back in Europe unfortunately.

 

[Czechboy]

Drafted players nerd breakdown.lol

Goalies:

Czechs 11
Slovaks 1

Forwards:

Czechs 27
Slovaks 16

Defence:

Czechs 12
Slovaks 4

Some undrafted hopefuls including Molnar, Petr and Suchanek.

Some future Czech hopefuls include Jiricek, Badinka, Svozil, Galvas Jecho and Benak. Slovakia has Chromiak and Kiss (I could be missing someone just using EP for this part)

 

[Czechboy]

Last one.lol

First Rounders

Czechs 5

Slovakia 4

 

[czech]

The Slovaks will win back the Czechs in the 2026 draft.
First round: Tomik
Second round: Nemec, Chrenko, maybe Dravecky...
For the Czechs, I don’t see anyone who could be selected in either the first or second round (perhaps only Adam Novotny - great start to the new season).
At the 2027 draft, a shooting stars is expected for both nations (the Czechs probably have a little more):
Kachlir, Byrtus, Sanejstr, Tomanek, Rejthar, Sejc, Hajek, Vanha, Vanourek, Fodor, Sekanina, Blengino ... Kazda, Valek, Rausa, Ozogany, Selic, Halas, Krajnak, Pisarcik, Dobos ... +Taliga, who can turn out to be both Czech and Slovak.

 

[Czechboy]

The Slovaks will win back the Czechs in the 2026 draft.
First round: Tomik
Second round: Nemec, Chrenko, maybe Dravecky...
For the Czechs, I don’t see anyone who could be selected in either the first or second round (perhaps only Adam Novotny - great start to the new season).
At the 2027 draft, a shooting stars is expected for both nations (the Czechs probably have a little more):
Kachlir, Byrtus, Sanejstr, Tomanek, Rejthar, Sejc, Hajek, Vanha, Vanourek, Fodor, Sekanina, Blengino ... Kazda, Valek, Rausa, Ozogany, Selic, Halas, Krajnak, Pisarcik, Dobos ... +Taliga, who can turn out to be both Czech and Slovak.

Is 2025 the Benak draft?

 

[Antiillafire]

You see, I laugh at the idea that Gajan is the better prospect because he was drafted a few spots earlier. Lost in translation as I write.

I think it’s the opposite, I clearly understand what you are saying. While you have zero idea what I am saying

 

[Goodman68]

I think it’s the opposite, I clearly understand what you are saying. While you have zero idea what I am saying

And I naively thought there would be peace
So if even the managers saw him at the same level in that vote.. We're at the same thing again, the same level is not better. But if it's not lost in translation, feel free to PM me to make me laugh even more
And yes, sure some team may consider Gajan a better prospect. But we are probably talking about the majority opinion at the moment. At least I hope so

 

[Czechboy]

Thought I'd look at the results for U18 starting at 2018

Czechs finished higher in 4 out of 5

U20 starting at 2018
Czechs finished higher in all of them

Hlinka going to U20
Czechs finished higher in 4 out of 5

By my count that is 16 tournaments and Czechs finished higher in 14 of them.

Note: not bragging about Czech results, we have sucked at all these levels for a very long time (although I like our U20 and U18 teams coming up this season before injuries and such).

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The Slovaks will win back the Czechs in the 2026 draft.
First round: Tomik
Second round: Nemec, Chrenko, maybe Dravecky...
For the Czechs, I don’t see anyone who could be selected in either the first or second round (perhaps only Adam Novotny - great start to the new season).
At the 2027 draft, a shooting stars is expected for both nations (the Czechs probably have a little more):
Kachlir, Byrtus, Sanejstr, Tomanek, Rejthar, Sejc, Hajek, Vanha, Vanourek, Fodor, Sekanina, Blengino ... Kazda, Valek, Rausa, Ozogany, Selic, Halas, Krajnak, Pisarcik, Dobos ... +Taliga, who can turn out to be both Czech and Slovak.

Dravecky will be a first rounder.