Tyson Jost

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My last hope with him is that we draft a Hughes (or similar) that can carry a line and Jost can get it together enough to be a decent passenger. He has the skill for that, but outside of our top line, we don’t have any other drivers to staple him to right now.
 

Elitersson

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Canucks fan here, wondering if anybody has a decent scouting report on Jost's play since his last recall? I've been watching him since his BCHL days, hoping he pans out for you guys.

Pretty unimpressed with him from viewings earlier this year, havent watched any games lately but noticed an uptick in shots on goal last several games.

Any notable improvements in his game?
 

avsfan09

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Canucks fan here, wondering if anybody has a decent scouting report on Jost's play since his last recall? I've been watching him since his BCHL days, hoping he pans out for you guys.

Pretty unimpressed with him from viewings earlier this year, havent watched any games lately but noticed an uptick in shots on goal last several games.

Any notable improvements in his game?
He's been finding more open ice lately for sure. Earlier in the season he was fighting the puck alot and looked nervous of making a mistake. He's asserting himself more and gaining more confidence with the puck.

You'll probably get mixed answers here. Alot of people are down on Jost on this board. I'm one of the ones who still feel he'll be fine. I just think he was rushed and put alot of pressure on himself to provide scoring right away when it was always going to be a learning curve with him.
 

MarkT

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It's looking less and less likely that he ever lives up to his draft position, but has shown signs lately that he could be a decent middle 6 player long-term. He's looking more like a genuine NHLer, which is not how he looked earlier in the season IMO.
 

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Canucks fan here, wondering if anybody has a decent scouting report on Jost's play since his last recall? I've been watching him since his BCHL days, hoping he pans out for you guys.

Pretty unimpressed with him from viewings earlier this year, havent watched any games lately but noticed an uptick in shots on goal last several games.

Any notable improvements in his game?

Came on strong after the recall, was finding open spots and capitalizing on chances, but is still a little too slow and a little too easy to knock down. He’s still making a concerted effort to take more shots, but he’s gotta work on getting it off quicker and getting it on net.

As I’ve said elsewhere I don’t think the issues are with him alone. I don’t like the linemates Bednar keeps pairing him with and I don’t like his emphasis on board play instead of cycling it in open ice more often. Both of these things work against him. I think with a better system and better linemates he’ll be a decent complementary scoring forward. And if he reaches that plateau people will be happy with him. His defense remains the most consistent aspect of his game.
 

Pokecheque

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Thanks for the info. Is he still playing C mostly? And do you think he would be better suited on the wing?

Since the callup I think they have tried to keep him at center mostly, but with the weird 11F/7D thing going on he's getting rotated in as a winger as well. Others would probably know more than me.

As for what he'd be suited better as, yeah, I think it was Henchy who said he's just not quite suited as a full-time C and I agree. I think he'd be ideal as a RW paired with a big LW and a center who can get him the puck for as many one-timers and snipes as possible and afford him some space. The big, big problem with his game is his lack of speed and size just doesn't allow him any separation. He needs to get that space created for him, he can't do it himself.

He also needs to work on that shot. Even last night he was whiffing and/or sailing shots wide. Not good enough. Dude's gotta get that thing on net consistently and get the shot off quickly. I think with some proper tutelage/work in the offseason he can get it up to par. But if he doesn't he'll never be anything more than a mediocre depth guy.
 
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henchman21

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The problem with Jost's shot is his release. Takes too long for him to get the shot off accurately and hard... when he doesn't have time it becomes wildly inaccurate or is a whiff. Many of Jost's problems are the damned if you do, damned if you don't sort. He needs to find a niche and work on it to carve out a decent career. He's not talented enough to be a good at all things sort of player... he can be an average at all things, but that makes him a 3rd liner.
 

Pokecheque

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The problem with Jost's shot is his release. Takes too long for him to get the shot off accurately and hard... when he doesn't have time it becomes wildly inaccurate or is a whiff. Many of Jost's problems are the damned if you do, damned if you don't sort. He needs to find a niche and work on it to carve out a decent career. He's not talented enough to be a good at all things sort of player... he can be an average at all things, but that makes him a 3rd liner.

And that's why he's gotta work on it in the offseason. I think he could hone it with the right type of skills coaching. It was deadly at the NCAA level (obviously having Brock Boeser on his wing helped matters, but still). I'm not expecting Brett Hull but if he could work on getting that shot off quicker, which quite frankly virtually every Avs forward needs to work on (yes, even MacKinnon and Rantanen) then I think that's what raises him above "marginal NHLer." That is his niche. I don't think he has anything else in his repertoire that allows him that.

BTW I said before I think this saga ends in Colorado with him getting traded, and I'm sticking by that. I'm not advocating for him to get traded, nor do I think his trade value is anything special at this point, just making a likely-inaccurate prognostication.
 
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Foppa2118

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Jost has already proven he can skate well enough to play center, and he hasn't even had another off season to improve his stride. The talent is there, the shot is there, the passing is there, the vision is there. He's already one of the best defensive forwards on the team, and has become a great puck thief. He's just having a hard time putting it all together offensively with linemates that don't suit him.

If he can't put together his offensive game, he'll stay a much less effective player. He's still young though, people have been trying to define his ceiling, and kind of player he's capable of being, since day one. It's still too early, and I think we need to see him more with better linemates to know for sure what he's capable of.

When he's with smaller quicker guys like Kerfoot, they like to play off the rush, and that doesn't suit him. When he's with Calvert, Wilson, and Bourque like he's been lately, they can help him down low, but don't have the skill or smarts to hit Jost with passes when he's open. They also don't come out of the cycle and put themselves in the soft spots to receive passes for good scoring chances. When they do they miss the net or shoot into the goalies chest.

By his own admission Jost likes to play a down low cycle game, and this is why he looked so much better with Landy. Landy can help him down low on the cycle, he can help him defensively, he can find the soft spots coming out of the cycle to receive passes, and he can hit Jost with good passes himself.

Without someone like this Jost tries to do too much on his own, and he doesn't have the physical attributes to do that. He needs good line mates, and they need to play like a line, not like individual skill players. It's just one of the many reasons why this team needs a gritty middle six winger that's in between Landy and Calvert in skill.
 

avsfan09

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Jost has already proven he can skate well enough to play center, and he hasn't even had another off season to improve his stride. The talent is there, the shot is there, the passing is there, the vision is there. He's already one of the best defensive forwards on the team, and has become a great puck thief. He's just having a hard time putting it all together offensively with linemates that don't suit him.

If he can't put together his offensive game, he'll stay a much less effective player. He's still young though, people have been trying to define his ceiling, and kind of player he's capable of being, since day one. It's still too early, and I think we need to see him more with better linemates to know for sure what he's capable of.

When he's with smaller quicker guys like Kerfoot, they like to play off the rush, and that doesn't suit him. When he's with Calvert, Wilson, and Bourque like he's been lately, they can help him down low, but don't have the skill or smarts to hit Jost with passes when he's open. They also don't come out of the cycle and put themselves in the soft spots to receive passes for good scoring chances. When they do they miss the net or shoot into the goalies chest.

By his own admission Jost likes to play a down low cycle game, and this is why he looked so much better with Landy. Landy can help him down low on the cycle, he can help him defensively, he can find the soft spots coming out of the cycle to receive passes, and he can hit Jost with good passes himself.

Without someone like this Jost tries to do too much on his own, and he doesn't have the physical attributes to do that. He needs good line mates, and they need to play like a line, not like individual skill players. It's just one of the many reasons why this team needs a gritty middle six winger that's in between Landy and Calvert in skill.
Doesn't Compher kind of fit your description

"It's just one of the many reasons why this team needs a gritty middle six winger that's in between Landy and Calvert in skill"

I agree with alot of your post. People are quick to judge and not patient enough. The last few games he's been working give and goes and driving holes looking for passes. I like seeing him gain confidence, hes much more assertive than earlier in the season.
 

Foppa2118

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Doesn't Compher kind of fit your description

"It's just one of the many reasons why this team needs a gritty middle six winger that's in between Landy and Calvert in skill"

I agree with alot of your post. People are quick to judge and not patient enough. The last few games he's been working give and goes and driving holes looking for passes. I like seeing him gain confidence, hes much more assertive than earlier in the season.

Compher's an interesting player style wise. He doesn't really play a traditional gritty cycle game, probably because he doesn't have the size to play that way effectively. He almost plays a hybrid style of that and Kerfoot with an off the rush style using his speed.

He goes into the corners for the puck, but he doesn't stay there long. He gets out and tries to open himself up for passes to use his great shot. When he's on his game he goes to the dirty areas around the net well too.

So he's close to the kind of player I think Jost likes to play with, and better than other options on the Avs, but Jost needs a physical presence with some skill. Jost can be good down low on the cycle, but when he doesn't have enough help, he tries to do it all himself, and that's when he gets in trouble. Even though he can be fairly good at protecting the puck, physically he can't do this all the time. So that's where a Landy or a more skilled Calvert type will help him.

They can spend time down low and help him win those physical battles, then come out of the cycle and have the skill and smarts to match Jost's skill and smarts, and they can create some good scoring chances, and actually finish them. They can actually read off each other to create plays, not just play a low skill meat and potatoes game.

Guys like Calvert, Wilson, and Bourque can help with the physical battles part, but they can't help him skill wise and smarts wise to create and finish those scoring chances. Whether it's getting open and finishing their shot after Jost passes to them, or passing to Jost so he can finish with his shot. It just ends with the play dying too often.
 

avsfan09

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Compher's an interesting player style wise. He doesn't really play a traditional gritty cycle game, probably because he doesn't have the size to play that way effectively. He almost plays a hybrid style of that and Kerfoot with an off the rush style using his speed.

He goes into the corners for the puck, but he doesn't stay there long. He gets out and tries to open himself up for passes to use his great shot. When he's on his game he goes to the dirty areas around the net well too.

So he's close to the kind of player I think Jost likes to play with, and better than other options on the Avs, but Jost needs a physical presence with some skill. Jost can be good down low on the cycle, but when he doesn't have enough help, he tries to do it all himself, and that's when he gets in trouble. Even though he can be fairly good at protecting the puck, physically he can't do this all the time. So that's where a Landy or a more skilled Calvert type will help him.

They can spend time down low and help him win those physical battles, then come out of the cycle and have the skill and smarts to match Jost's skill and smarts, and they can create some good scoring chances, and actually finish them. They can actually read off each other to create plays, not just play a low skill meat and potatoes game.

Guys like Calvert, Wilson, and Bourque can help with the physical battles part, but they can't help him skill wise and smarts wise to create and finish those scoring chances. Whether it's getting open and finishing their shot after Jost passes to them, or passing to Jost so he can finish with his shot. It just ends with the play dying too often.
Good post. I've been told by other Jost isn't good down low. Nice to hear I'm not alone in thinking that he's actually good down low and behind the net on the cycle.
 
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Pokecheque

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That's the thing. Yes, he's pretty good below the hashmarks and behind the net. But he's not good at all at winning board battles. He's also not great at securing the puck, and I don't think that's necessarily a size thing. So in a way, you're both right.

That's why I think he's gotta perfect his shot. He's gotta be that guy who can get into open areas and rip it home to be an impact player, otherwise he's little more than a fringe NHL role player. I just don't see enough speed, hockey sense, or puck skill that'll allow him to stand out any other way.

How much of his struggles are just him and how much of them are the fact that Bednar insists on pairing him with other smallish players who make his glaring issues worse is kinda hard to say.
 
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avsfan09

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That's the thing. Yes, he's pretty good below the hashmarks and behind the net. But he's not good at all at winning board battles. He's also not great at securing the puck, and I don't think that's necessarily a size thing. So in a way, you're both right.

That's why I think he's gotta perfect his shot. He's gotta be that guy who can get into open areas and rip it home to be an impact player, otherwise he's little more than a fringe NHL role player. I just don't see enough speed, hockey sense, or puck skill that'll allow him to stand out any other way.

How much of his struggles are just him and how much of them are the fact that Bednar insists on pairing him with other smallish players who make his glaring issues worse is kinda hard to say.
I'm willing to give him a little leeway on the battles because of how young he is and I think he has a good stick.

I also disagree with you on his hands and IQ but neither of us will budge on that one haha.

As for his shot. I agree it has to get better but young guys often struggle for years trying to learn how to get it off at nhl game speed. Took Mack and Duchene quite a while to perfect and they have much more speed to create openings. Its about small openings and timing. I think his shot with space is good. It will be about getting better instincts with experience and comfort.
 
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Pokecheque

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I also disagree with you on his hands and IQ but neither of us will budge on that one haha.

FTR, I never said either of those attributes was by any means poor, but that either, or both would have to be a whole lot better for him to really be an impact player (OR...his shot/release) and offset his lack of size and speed. Much like Debrincat, another not big/not fast guy who has become a star because he knows where to be and when, and has a very effective shot. He has good hands and hockey sense, but I'm not sure either are great.
 

The Kingslayer

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The problem with Jost's shot is his release. Takes too long for him to get the shot off accurately and hard... when he doesn't have time it becomes wildly inaccurate or is a whiff. Many of Jost's problems are the damned if you do, damned if you don't sort. He needs to find a niche and work on it to carve out a decent career. He's not talented enough to be a good at all things sort of player... he can be an average at all things, but that makes him a 3rd liner.
Would love to see him go to a shorter stick ala Matt Duchene.
 

avsfan09

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FTR, I never said either of those attributes was by any means poor, but that either, or both would have to be a whole lot better for him to really be an impact player (OR...his shot/release) and offset his lack of size and speed. Much like Debrincat, another not big/not fast guy who has become a star because he knows where to be and when, and has a very effective shot. He has good hands and hockey sense, but I'm not sure either are great.
I just think his skating was good in th3 lower levels or good enough. Now he's being forced to adapt and it's unfortunately going to take time for him to figure out the NHL game.
 

Foppa2118

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Next to skating, your shot is probably the easiest thing to improve into your 20's. Landy is a perfect example. Remember how often he used to miss the net or hit the post just a couple years ago? He worked hard on it in practice, and now he consistently has a great release, and a very accurate shot.

I'm not worried at all about Jost's release. The accuracy and velocity are already there. He's already improved dramatically with his skating through hard work in season (let alone off season) and I would expect his release to become quicker as well in the coming years.

He's not going to become a high end 1st liner, or someone that "drives a line" but neither are most good 2nd liners or good tweeners. They usually need help, that's what separates them from 1st line players.
 

Pokecheque

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I still see a guy who is just way too slow, it's not just the skating either, he has GOT to get quicker in setting up his shot. I did really like his nifty assist on the 6th goal last night, but it's not like Kris Russell is particularly good at...well, anything really.

It's pretty clear though that Landeskog is the best guy on the team to pair him with, and Bourque is without a doubt the worst.
 

McMetal

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He has gotten better along the boards, as evidenced by his apple last night. But I really want him to find open ice in the O zone more. That's not a skating issue, it's IQ, and he should have plenty of that to spare. The problem is, with his usage lately, he's been the playmaker on his line without many opportunities to shoot. I'd love to see him stuck with Soda for a bit to see if that gives him the space to shoot some more.
 

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I think he's taken a very, very small step forward this year. He's show some signs of some good things coming(His assist last night was a great example of his improved board play).


At the same time, he also has shown some of the same issues that at this point will probably keep him from being the true level of player we hoped he would be when we took him #10.


He wont be a Top 6 Center, his skating just isn't good enough for that. But his work ethic and board play, as well as his playmaking ability do show signs of coming together in the form of a complimentary Top 6 winger. Some similarities to Parise's game but again not quite the same foot speed or shot.
 

AvsCOL

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No idea how people think he's too slow. I'd say he's above average there, he just needs to get stronger along the board because he's getting knocked off the puck way too easily. I had concerns earlier in the season with Jost, but he looks like he belongs now. Next year he'll take that next step.
 

LieutenantDangle

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If the avs are dead set on jost being a center and not a winger they absolutely need to saddle landeskog to his wing. Landeskog was instrumental in Mackinnons rise to stardom. He too struggled mightily when asked to be a top end center at a young age.
 
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Pokecheque

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No idea how people think he's too slow. I'd say he's above average there, he just needs to get stronger along the board because he's getting knocked off the puck way too easily. I had concerns earlier in the season with Jost, but he looks like he belongs now. Next year he'll take that next step.

Lordy, we ain't watching the same player. It's almost universally agreed that his skating is poor, it just depends on whether he can do other things to compensate for a profound lack of speed. How in the world do you think he's fast in any regard...?
 

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