Tyson Barrie

[xbestboybandever]

I never said he wasn’t...

"I’m not saying he’s done developing, but his game isn’t as conducive to offensive production as Makar and Barries is. "

It seems to me as though his offensive production is just different. You say he isn't a play driver, but exiting the zone and being able to make stretch passes seems to be driving the play.

 

[The Abusement Park]

"I’m not saying he’s done developing, but his game isn’t as conducive to offensive production as Makar and Barries is. "

It seems to me as though his offensive production is just different. You say he isn't a play driver, but exiting the zone and being able to make stretch passes seems to be driving the play.

I mean there’s more to driving offense than transitioning from offense to defense. And again I said his play style is less conducive to offensive production(or points if you rather) than Barrie or Makar. That doesn’t mean he can’t produce it’s just that Makar and Barrie both play in a way that will provide more points than Girard.

 

[Foxtail]

This in particular means absolutely nothing whatsoever. Duncan Keith didn't make the NHL at 19, pretty sure Erik Karlsson didn't either. Cale Makar didn't either. Completely irrelevant where a player starts as opposed to when he hits his prime.

This is as far as I want to venture into what will be this summer's dumbest argument by a country mile.

Erik Karlsson did and Girard put up similar numbers to him.

My point is that saying pigeonholing Girard this early in his career is silly considering at the same age Barrie wasn't looking like he was for certain even going to be an NHL player

 

[xbestboybandever]

I mean there’s more to driving offense than transitioning from offense to defense. And again I said his play style is less conducive to offensive production(or points if you rather) than Barrie or Makar. That doesn’t mean he can’t produce it’s just that Makar and Barrie both play in a way that will provide more points than Girard.

I just don't agree with any of this.

Half the argument that people make with Barrie is his ability to transition from the d-zone to o-zone using his speed and you are telling me that is more valuable offensively than being able to make creative and effective passes to team mates to spring them? I don't expect Girard to eclipse the 50 point mark next season, but to say that he isn't capable of it is totally off-base.

And the stockiness thing is ridiculous. Barrie is 27 and has physically matured where as Girard is the same height but is ~7 years younger and 28 pounds lighter. Girard will get there, he just needs to do that thing that most kids do... Grow.

 

[Foxtail]

That’s what I meant first two full seasons. And yes Girard needs to add some muscle to his frame but he’s just not a big dude and doesn’t have that stockiness that Barrie does.

Girard is already only 5 to 10 lbs lighter than Barrie

 

[Foxtail]

It’s staggering really.

It's staggering to th I k Girard can't replicate Barrie numbers when he's further ahead of Barrie's curve I every way. Girard is still 2 yyears younger than Barries 1st NHL season .

 

[The Abusement Park]

Girard is already only 5 to 10 lbs lighter than Barrie

Girard is listed at 162. Barrie is listed at 190. That’s 30lbs.

 

[Gatorbait19]

Girard is listed at 162. Barrie is listed at 190. That’s 30lbs.

I actually think it’s closer to 28lbs.

 

[Foxtail]

It’s insulting to Barrie as a player really.

It's insulting to Makar and Girard to say they wont be as good

 

[The Abusement Park]

I just don't agree with any of this.

Half the argument that people make with Barrie is his ability to transition from the d-zone to o-zone using his speed and you are telling me that is more valuable offensively than being able to make creative and effective passes to team mates to spring them? I don't expect Girard to eclipse the 50 point mark next season, but to say that he isn't capable of it is totally off-base.

And the stockiness thing is ridiculous. Barrie is 27 and has physically matured where as Girard is the same height but is ~7 years younger and 28 pounds lighter. Girard will get there, he just needs to do that thing that most kids do... Grow.

Yes, Barrie is good at transition and obviously a big strength of his, but Girard is better at it. Barrie is better at joining the rush and creating odd man rush situations. They have some strengths that are similar but Barrie is better in the O-zone than Girard and Girard is better in the D-Zone than Barrie. They’re both both really good puck movers but play a different role and style of hockey. It’s not that complicated.

 

[Foxtail]

I actually think it’s closer to 28lbs.

Sammy put in 15 lbs of muscle last summer before the season started putting him around 177 lbs . The coaching staff wanted Sammy to work on that and he did. You could certainly notice the difference in his physical play

 

[Foxtail]

Girard is listed at 162. Barrie is listed at 190. That’s 30lbs.

Girard is 177 after putting on 15 lbs last summer or did you conveniently forget that ?

But maybe there is a bigger weight difference cause Barrie seems like he's moving around at 210

 

[The Abusement Park]

It's insulting to Makar and Girard to say they wont be as good

It’s not ridiculous to think that Barrie will be better than Makar next year. Makar will almost certainly end up the better player between him and Barrie I don’t think anyone has said otherwise.

On the Girard part they play completely different roles and styles so I don’t know who will end up the better player. Girard will always be the more well rounded player, but offensively I think Barrie will be better and that’s not that far fetched.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Girard is 187 after putting on 15 lbs last summer or did you conveniently forget that ?

But maybe there is a bigger weight difference cause Barrie seems like he's moving around at 210

Where is Girard listed at 187?

 

[xbestboybandever]

Yes, Barrie is good at transition and obviously a big strength of his, but Girard is better at it. Barrie is better at joining the rush and creating odd man rush situations. They have some strengths that are similar but Barrie is better in the O-zone than Girard and Girard is better in the D-Zone than Barrie. They’re both both really good puck movers but play a different role and style of hockey. It’s not that complicated.

And yet I am asking how it is that Girard's game isn't as conducive as Barrie's offensively. Because Barrie is more aggressive when it comes to joining the rush, yet Girard's passes and transition game that start those odd man rushes aren't as effective? I am not knocking either player, I just think that you stating that Girard can't reach Barrie's offensive production is ludicrous, especially at this point of their careers.

 

[The Abusement Park]

And yet I am asking how it is that Girard's game isn't as conducive as Barrie's offensively. Because Barrie is more aggressive when it comes to joining the rush, yet Girard's passes and transition game that start those odd man rushes aren't as effective? I am not knocking either player, I just think that you stating that Girard can't reach Barrie's offensive production is ludicrous, especially at this point of their careers.

That goes back to the first part of what I said which is the difference between their shots. If Girard can get it to Barries level than that will go a long way to him becoming a 50 pt guy. That’s the biggest difference to me. I mean I just don’t think he can be a 50 pt guy scoring 4-5 times a year. I just think it’s unlikely he’s a 40-50 pt guy. Like I said I see him as a Spurgeon type defenseman, and that’s not a bad thing at all. He’s just a different type of dman than Makar and Barrie.

Done with this thread. Peace out all.

 

[xbestboybandever]

That goes back to the first part of what I said which is the difference between their shots. If Girard can get it to Barries level than that will go a long way to him becoming a 50 pt guy. That’s the biggest difference to me. I mean I just don’t think he can be a 50 pt guy scoring 4-5 times a year. I just think it’s unlikely he’s a 40-50 pt guy. Like I said I see him as a Spurgeon type defenseman, and that’s not a bad thing at all. He’s just a different type of dman than Makar and Barrie.

Done with this thread. Peace out all.

And I responded to that by saying the goal numbers you provided for Barrie were 3 years after his draft. As Girard continues to work on his shot, his shot can improve. If he was handed the same PP time as Barrie with the same level of players, his point totals would go up. It's talking in circles and no matter what is said, you refuse to acknowledge that there is the possibility that Girard's game will continue to grow and he can be just as effective in the offense by being a different player. And then you decide to run away after providing no evidence to support your claim.

 

[The Abusement Park]

And I responded to that by saying the goal numbers you provided for Barrie were 3 years after his draft. As Girard continues to work on his shot, his shot can improve. If he was handed the same PP time as Barrie with the same level of players, his point totals would go up. It's talking in circles and no matter what is said, you refuse to acknowledge that there is the possibility that Girard's game will continue to grow and he can be just as effective in the offense by being a different player. And then you decide to run away after providing no evidence to support your claim.

If you read what I said earlier I said in a vacuum he’d get more points if he was on PP1 for that reason alone. I also said his points depend on how much his shot improves. I also pointed out that he will basically never be on the top PP unit during his time here so that point is irrelevant. I don’t know what else to tell you. We’re gonna have to agree to disagree.

 

[xbestboybandever]

If you read what I said earlier I said in a vacuum he’d get more points if he was on PP1 for that reason alone. I also said his points depend on how much his shot improves. I also pointed out that he will basically never be on the top PP unit during his time here so that point is irrelevant. I don’t know what else to tell you. We’re gonna have to agree to disagree.

I'll see you next season with a plate of crow.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I'll see you next season with a plate of crow.

Ok?

 

[BoxOfChocolates]

I'll see you next season with a plate of crow.

After Barrie, do you really think Girard will be next in line? PP1 has Makar written all over it

 

[xbestboybandever]

After Barrie, do you really think Girard will be next in line? PP1 has Makar written all over it

No, but I think if PP2 gets improved, Girard will see better numbers.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I wouldnt hate getting Nuge to be honest. Guys two way game is underrated and I think he will thrive even more when he gets out of Edmonton.

Who doesn't? lol

 

[Gatorbait19]

What about the following trade scenarios:

Avs get: 8oa + RNH
Avs give: Barrie, 16oa + Kerfoot + Kaut/2020 1st

Oilers get: Barrie + 16oa + Kerfoot + Kaut/2020 1st
Oilers give: 8oa + RNH

OR

Avs get: Trouba + 2019 2nd/decent prospect
Avs give: 16oa + Barrie + kerfoot

Oilers get: Barrie + 16oa + kerfoot
Oilers give: 8oa

Jets get: 8oa
Jets give: Trouba + 2019 2nd/decent prospect

Thoughts? I feel like with the first one we make out like bandits, but the second one is maybe a little bit of an overpayment, although I’d still take it.

 

[Foxtail]

Where is Girard listed at 187?

177 typo edited that