Value of: Tyler Bozak

[WrinkledPossum]

you watch quite a bit of the leafs huh? prob more than the 70+ games most leafs fans watch?

Bozak would have a couple 50+ seasons and even a 60-65 pt season if he could stay in the lineup more. then would he be a 50 pt center?

Bozak is at a 0.6+ppg pace every year. 70 games or so he will get 40-45 pts. if he plays 80+ he will get around 50.

But he can't stay healthy so he isn't a 50 point center. Injury history which prevents him from doing that. Case closed.

 

[BEERnSOUP]

You can't say a player is something if he's never done it, by saying he's a 50 point guy you make it sound like he's good for 50+ points. Never done that before. It is nit picky but he's just never done it. He's a 45 point guy, good 2nd line C, great 3rd line C. Right now with no retention I think he's worth a 3rd + later pick/mediocre prospect. With retention, a 2nd. At the deadline I see a contender potentially giving up a 2nd because teams are dumb.

saying he's a 45 point guy when he puts up 49 (in 58 games), 49, and 35 (in 57 games) the last 3 seasons is a far bigger stretch than to say he's a 50 point guy. This is getting beyond ridiculous lol

 

[StevenDean]

You can't say a player is something if he's never done it, by saying he's a 50 point guy you make it sound like he's good for 50+ points. Never done that before. It is nit picky but he's just never done it. He's a 45 point guy, good 2nd line C, great 3rd line C. Right now with no retention I think he's worth a 3rd + later pick/mediocre prospect. With retention, a 2nd. At the deadline I see a contender potentially giving up a 2nd because teams are dumb.

Yes you can. If someone gets 49 points every year but only plays 60-70 games each year then THEY ARE A 50 POINT PLAYER. When someone says 30 goal guy or 50 point guy they look at what they can do based on an 82 game season.

Also if you think Bozak is worth that much less than Eller then you are insane. He makes only $700k less and is good for 25-30 points a season versus (to use your argument for points) a 45-50 point guy.

With the right timing and right team, Bozak could fetch a 1st. But we have to get Arizona kind of lucky.

 

[BEERnSOUP]

But he can't stay healthy so he isn't a 50 point center. Injury history which prevents him from doing that. Case closed.

ok... he's a 49 point guy. Happy? And regardless of injuries he's put up nearly 70% more points than eller the last 3 years. so It's pretty fair to think he'd get at least as much as eller did, and quite likely more.

 

[StevenDean]

But he can't stay healthy so he isn't a 50 point center. Injury history which prevents him from doing that. Case closed.

Right the two seasons he didn't play most of it, oh no be afraid. Fine lets actually split the hairs and call him a 49 point guy (heck to play it safe I'll call him a 45 point guy). Still about 20 points more per year than Eller, WHILE PLAYING LESS GAMES.

Happy?

 

[StevenDean]

ok... he's a 49 point guy. Happy?

Awwww you beat me to it. Good job. Hahahaha.

 

[garyturner3]

Uh, I watch quite a bit of the Leafs, but you don't need to watch him to know that Bozak has never scored 50 points in a season. Pacing is not the same thing. Pacioretty has paced over 40 goals in a season, doesn't make him a 40 goal player.



Isn't he one already?

When he's paced at 50+ points for five straight seasons then yes you can call him a 50 point center. It's ridiculous how many people nitpick about that. Injuries/shortened seasons happen. Doesn't change the fact he's consistently scoring at the same rate. Patches also has only paced at a 40 goal rate once in his career three seasons ago so you're correct in not calling him a 40 goal scorer. Much different than the last five seasons at that pace.

 

[BEERnSOUP]

Right now with no retention I think he's worth a 3rd + later pick/mediocre prospect. With retention, a 2nd. At the deadline I see a contender potentially giving up a 2nd because teams are dumb.

This just takes the cake. Eller just got 2x 2nds. Bozak has outproduced eller by nearly 70% (68.35%, since it's abundantly clear you like to nitpick if it suits your argument) the last three seasons and he's worth... less? And only because "teams are dumb" could he "potentially" get half the return of a guy he consistently and SIGNIFICANTLY outproduces. Bozak is also 5.8% better on faceoffs which is pretty significant as well. Bozak is simply a superior player to Lars Eller, but go on thinking he's not even worth half what eller got...

What the hell have you been smoking?

 

[leaflover]

I think the Leafs are better off keeping him, at least going into the year. In my opinion, at worst, his value would go up at the trade deadline.

Absolutely. Bozak will be one of the better role models for the kids. If the Leafs are anywhere close to sniffing a playoff spot i'd like to see Bozak finish the season in Toronto.

 

[AMDZen]

Stastny for Bozak plus second

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Relax guys Sorry I wasn't aware that it doesn't matter what you can do but what hypothetically you could do.

Martin Hanzal is a 50 point player.
Cammaleri is a 75 point player.
Paul Stastny is a 65 point player.
Barkov is a 75 point player.
Steen is a 70+ point player...

 

[WrinkledPossum]

This just takes the cake. Eller just got 2x 2nds. Bozak has outproduced eller by nearly 70% (68.35%, since it's abundantly clear you like to nitpick if it suits your argument) the last three seasons and he's worth... less? And only because "teams are dumb" could he "potentially" get half the return of a guy he consistently and SIGNIFICANTLY outproduces. Bozak is also 5.8% better on faceoffs which is pretty significant as well. Bozak is simply a superior player to Lars Eller, but go on thinking he's not even worth half what eller got...

What the hell have you been smoking?

I had forgot about the Eller deal, but I think it's an overpayment. And I didn't know one trade redefines the entire market. I guess Barrie is going to be traded for McDavid and 2nd now..

 

[BEERnSOUP]

Relax guys Sorry I wasn't aware that it doesn't matter what you can do but what hypothetically you could do.

Martin Hanzal is a 50 point player.
Cammaleri is a 75 point player.
Paul Stastny is a 60 point player.
Barkov is a 75 point player.
Steen is a 70+ point player...

Well it actually does matter what you can do, and what Bozak HAS done is outproduce eller by 68.35% the last 3 seasons as well as being significantly better on draws. Since you we're focusing only on what has been done an not potential to be done right now... Care to comment on why you think a guy like Bozak, who HAS significantly outproduced Eller, is worth less than half of the return Eller got?

Or are just you just going to stick to the 50 point guy bit and ignore the inconsistency in your valuation when we already conceded he's a 49 point guy and ignored missed games to appease you?

 

[BEERnSOUP]

I had forgot about the Eller deal, but I think it's an overpayment. And I didn't know one trade redefines the entire market. I guess Barrie is going to be traded for McDavid and 2nd now..

Eller, and shaw both got 2 2nds, apparently that's the going rate for a decent C at the moment. That's not one trade, they occured simultaneously. Even IF those are overpays, you really think Bozak is worth less than half that while being statistically far superior to eller? And how the hell do you extrapolate to mcdavid + 2nd for barrie now? I know you are "making a point" but I don't see the relevance lol.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. You guys are wasting your time.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Eller, and shaw both got 2 2nds, apparently that's the going rate for a decent C at the moment. Even IF those are overpays, you really think Bozak is worth less than half that while being statistically far superior to eller? And how the hell do you extrapolate to mcdavid + 2nd for barrie now? I know you are "making a point" but I don't see the relevance lol.

Hall for Larsson, overpayment. And you thinking one trade redefines the market means that Mcdavid+ for Barrie should be a fair deal. Because if one overpayment occurs, everything after must follow...

 

[garyturner3]

Hall for Larsson, overpayment. And you thinking one trade redefines the market means that Mcdavid+ for Barrie should be a fair deal. Because if one overpayment occurs, everything after must follow...

He just mentioned TWO similar trades in the exact post you responded to.......

He's not saying one trade defines the market.

 

[JohnnyO]

Uh, I watch quite a bit of the Leafs, but you don't need to watch him to know that Bozak has never scored 50 points in a season. Pacing is not the same thing. Pacioretty has paced over 40 goals in a season, doesn't make him a 40 goal player.



Isn't he one already?

Did I say he was a 50 pt center? Maybe I should have prefaced it by saying "in my opinion" he's capable of putting up 40-50 pts. I don't see why someone who consistently has been close or on pace for 50 points couldn't potentially hit 50 points.

 

[buttman*]

ok... he's a 49 point guy. Happy? And regardless of injuries he's put up nearly 70% more points than eller the last 3 years. so It's pretty fair to think he'd get at least as much as eller did, and quite likely more.

If his name was Mathieu Perreault he'd produce less, be worse on face-offs, be smaller and be worth a lot more.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

He just mentioned TWO similar trades in the exact post you responded to.......

He's not saying one trade defines the market.

With Shaw being 6 years younger I think his value is higher than Bozak. So if you want to use him as an example it brings Bozaks value down from 2 2nds.

 

[buttman*]

Did I say he was a 50 pt center? Maybe I should have prefaced it by saying "in my opinion" he's capable of putting up 40-50 pts. I don't see why someone who consistently has been close or on pace for 50 points might actually score 50 points.

Don't worry about it. There are some real special people here. He's put up seasons of 47, 49 and 49. Was on pace for 50 last year and his career average is over 50 points. If anyone here is going to argue that Bozak is not a 50 point player they need to give their head a shake.

 

[BEERnSOUP]

Hall for Larsson, overpayment. And you thinking one trade redefines the market means that Mcdavid+ for Barrie should be a fair deal. Because if one overpayment occurs, everything after must follow...

Larsson for hall isn't remotely on the same level as adding to mcdavid for barrie. who cares about precedence when you can just say it was overpayment and talk about mcdavid trades right .

I clearly stated two trades in the post you quoted, not one. Shaw was an overpayment as well? Have you EVER seen a centre who produces ... 49 points ... on a decent contract get traded for less than a 2nd?

Duke is right. I should just stop, there's no point in this. Maybe we can argue about what colour the sky is or if water is wet. Clearly facts and logic don't matter...

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Don't worry about it. There are some real special people here. He's put up seasons of 47, 49 and 49. Was on pace for 50 last year and his career average is over 50 points. If anyone here is going to argue that Bozak is not a 50 point player they need to give their head a shake.

Injury prone 50 point center. Good place to meet in the middle, no?

 

[buttman*]

With Shaw being 6 years younger I think his value is higher than Bozak. So if you want to use him as an example it brings Bozaks value down from 2 2nds.

Yes and then there is the fact that Shaw has never hit 40 points. His career average is 34 points, while Bozak's is over 50. Bozak is also a much better faceoff man -- 56% last year compared to 46% for Shaw.

Do we take any of this into account or just the fact Shaw is younger?

 

[garyturner3]

Injury prone 50 point center. Good place to meet in the middle, no?

You noticing a trend with this thread over the last few pages WrinkledPossum? Everyone here is disagreeing with you. Just you. It's not a lively debate where the opinions are split down the middle. That should probably tell you something about your very biased opinion.