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Prospect Info: Tyler Boucher (RW/LW) - Don`t sleep on Tyler Boucher

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Ice-Tray said:
Come on Tyler! You got this buddy, most of us are pulling still for you :)
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If he could fight, that would help his NHL cause. If he was a big RW who can hit and drop the mits for Brady every once in a while I think he could crack the 4th line.
 
That's crazy lol

Especially when you notice a guy like mcgrattan could put up 20 goals in 31 games in the OHL and 20 points in 66 AHL games while having 327 PIMS and you realize "if Boucher isn't nearly as skilled as mcgrattan, and nowhere near as big or strong or as good of a fighter....how the hell could Boucher ever come close to sniffing an NHL roster if he's only half as skilled as 27 points in 317 NHL games, Brian mcgrattan.

Ouch. A high pick wasted on a guy with half the skill or strength of mcgrattan..
 
jbeck5 said:
That's crazy lol

Especially when you notice a guy like mcgrattan could put up 20 goals in 31 games in the OHL and 20 points in 66 AHL games while having 327 PIMS and you realize "if Boucher isn't nearly as skilled as mcgrattan, and nowhere near as big or strong or as good of a fighter....how the hell could Boucher ever come close to sniffing an NHL roster if he's only half as skilled as 27 points in 317 NHL games, Brian mcgrattan.

Ouch. A high pick wasted on a guy with half the skill or strength of mcgrattan..
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The game has changed a great deal since McGrattan was in junior, junior hockey has changed a great deal & the leagues including the AHL have all changed a great deal & players have all gotten much better since that time.

Boucher's RW career has been derailed by injuries & he has lost a great deal of development time. Not sure if it can be recovered at this point ,but the Sens need some RW help & Petersson RW is another guy I thought would be better than he has been in Belleville.
 
aragorn said:
The game has changed a great deal since McGrattan was in junior, junior hockey has changed a great deal & the leagues including the AHL have all changed a great deal & players have all gotten much better since that time.

Boucher's RW career has been derailed by injuries & he has lost a great deal of development time. Not sure if it can be recovered at this point ,but the Sens need some RW help & Petersson RW is another guy I thought would be better than he has been in Belleville.
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Sure, but just look at rankings on the OHL team and ahl team to know that mcgrattan just ranked much higher on his team's in terms of skill compared to Boucher.

The game becoming better overall isn't as relevant in my opinion.

When mcgrattan put up 20 goals in 31 games, he was the leading goal scorer on his OHL team, the Mississauga ice dogs.( Spezza put up 7 goals in 15 games then got traded away...)

Next up was 15 goals in 60 games. Mcgrattan has a case for finishing the season as their best forward.(Bad team though)

Would Boucher ever have been an OHL teams best goal scorer? No.

What about when mcgrattan put 20 points in 66 games in the AHL as a 22 year old with 327 PIMS? Where did he rank? 9th on the team in points for forwards...so cemented on the third line.

What about Boucher? Ranked 17th among forwards in points. Cemented on the 4th line.

Ok, he missed time? Let's rank by points per game.

He actually falls to 18th if we do ppg as he doesn't pass anyone above him, and Ashbrook would actually pass him.

League change or not, relevant to the talent around at the time, mcgrattan ranks quite a bit higher on the skill depth chart than Tyler Boucher.
 
jbeck5 said:
Sure, but just look at rankings on the OHL team and ahl team to know that mcgrattan just ranked much higher on his team's in terms of skill compared to Boucher.

The game becoming better overall isn't as relevant in my opinion.

When mcgrattan put up 20 goals in 31 games, he was the leading goal scorer on his OHL team, the Mississauga ice dogs.( Spezza put up 7 goals in 15 games then got traded away...)

Next up was 15 goals in 60 games. Mcgrattan has a case for finishing the season as their best forward.(Bad team though)

Would Boucher ever have been an OHL teams best goal scorer? No.

What about when mcgrattan put 20 points in 66 games in the AHL as a 22 year old with 327 PIMS? Where did he rank? 9th on the team in points for forwards...so cemented on the third line.

What about Boucher? Ranked 17th among forwards in points. Cemented on the 4th line.

Ok, he missed time? Let's rank by points per game.

He actually falls to 18th if we do ppg as he doesn't pass anyone above him, and Ashbrook would actually pass him.

League change or not, relevant to the talent around at the time, mcgrattan ranks quite a bit higher on the skill depth chart than Tyler Boucher.
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Like I said, injuries derailed his career, he has been injured everywhere he has been for the last number of yrs. Before he was drafted he was doing all right, hence the 1st rd draft ranking, McGratton who I really liked wasn't a 1st rd pick. If he can stay healthy maybe he improves although with all the development time lost, it will be extremely difficult.
 
aragorn said:
Like I said, injuries derailed his career, he has been injured everywhere he has been for the last number of yrs. Before he was drafted he was doing all right, hence the 1st rd draft ranking, McGratton who I really liked wasn't a 1st rd pick. If he can stay healthy maybe he improves although with all the development time lost, it will be extremely difficult.
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Even before the injuries, Boucher wasn't putting up good numbers.

Elite prospects has his stats going back to like U13AA lol

He put up 16 points in 17 games...sounds good right? He was 8th on his team...with guys putting up 65 points in 23 games for example...

You here guys like Yorkie say that anyone who sniffs the NHL were their teams best player at 13. Even grinders were superstars at 13, but had to adjust their games to make the NHL because not everyone can be a superstar at every level.

But Boucher was never even a top player in his minor hockey days.

Hey, look, he led his U14 team, but guys who played less put better ppg...and those guys are now 4th liners in NCAA.

What about prep school? 3rd in scoring behind 2 guys who have never sniffed pro hockey to this day.

What about u17 year? 10th on the team in points behind many guys who will never sniff the NHL.

What about u17 usntdp? 20th on the team in points.

What about university? 20th on the team...with most never going to play pro hockey.

It's hard when he's never really been the best on his team growing up at 12-13-14-15-16-17 etc.

Usually, even a defensive 4th liner is by far his best teams player in minor hockey. Obviously there are exceptions with late bloomers, but Boucher definitely isn't a late bloomer.

Someone like Chris Neil would be a type of player Boucher should try to copy...but even Neil who had to play 5 years of minor pro, still put up over a PPG in his last OHL season. Boucher couldn't even do that, and Boucher is know as more of an early bloomer than a late bloomer.
 
jbeck5 said:
Even before the injuries, Boucher wasn't putting up good numbers.

Elite prospects has his stats going back to like U13AA lol

He put up 16 points in 17 games...sounds good right? He was 8th on his team...with guys putting up 65 points in 23 games for example...

You here guys like Yorkie say that anyone who sniffs the NHL were their teams best player at 13. Even grinders were superstars at 13, but had to adjust their games to make the NHL because not everyone can be a superstar at every level.

But Boucher was never even a top player in his minor hockey days.

Hey, look, he led his U14 team, but guys who played less put better ppg...and those guys are now 4th liners in NCAA.

What about prep school? 3rd in scoring behind 2 guys who have never sniffed pro hockey to this day.

What about u17 year? 10th on the team in points behind many guys who will never sniff the NHL.

What about u17 usntdp? 20th on the team in points.

What about university? 20th on the team...with most never going to play pro hockey.

It's hard when he's never really been the best on his team growing up at 12-13-14-15-16-17 etc.

Usually, even a defensive 4th liner is by far his best teams player in minor hockey. Obviously there are exceptions with late bloomers, but Boucher definitely isn't a late bloomer.

Someone like Chris Neil would be a type of player Boucher should try to copy...but even Neil who had to play 5 years of minor pro, still put up over a PPG in his last OHL season. Boucher couldn't even do that, and Boucher is know as more of an early bloomer than a late bloomer.
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Anyone who's making the USNTDP is a top player in his age group. That's basically the function of the program - identify who the top American players in an age group will be and bring them together.

Compare him to a guy like John Beecher, who was never the most productive prospect coming up but was a top prospect in his age group because he had the physical tools to play pro hockey. Beecher goes late 1st, which is around where Boucher should have been taken, and has made his way to the NHL despite never producing offensive at a high level.
 
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jbeck5 said:
Even before the injuries, Boucher wasn't putting up good numbers.

Elite prospects has his stats going back to like U13AA lol

He put up 16 points in 17 games...sounds good right? He was 8th on his team...with guys putting up 65 points in 23 games for example...

You here guys like Yorkie say that anyone who sniffs the NHL were their teams best player at 13. Even grinders were superstars at 13, but had to adjust their games to make the NHL because not everyone can be a superstar at every level.

But Boucher was never even a top player in his minor hockey days.

Hey, look, he led his U14 team, but guys who played less put better ppg...and those guys are now 4th liners in NCAA.

What about prep school? 3rd in scoring behind 2 guys who have never sniffed pro hockey to this day.

What about u17 year? 10th on the team in points behind many guys who will never sniff the NHL.

What about u17 usntdp? 20th on the team in points.

What about university? 20th on the team...with most never going to play pro hockey.

It's hard when he's never really been the best on his team growing up at 12-13-14-15-16-17 etc.

Usually, even a defensive 4th liner is by far his best teams player in minor hockey. Obviously there are exceptions with late bloomers, but Boucher definitely isn't a late bloomer.

Someone like Chris Neil would be a type of player Boucher should try to copy...but even Neil who had to play 5 years of minor pro, still put up over a PPG in his last OHL season. Boucher couldn't even do that, and Boucher is know as more of an early bloomer than a late bloomer.
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And yet he was ranked as a 1st rd player by several different ranking sites, even McKenzie the draft guru had him in the 1st rd, if I remember correctly. I'm not trying to defend the guy he clearly has had a very rough time of it with injuries & it's doubtful he can recover from it & may never make it. We'll see.
 
jbeck5 said:
Even before the injuries, Boucher wasn't putting up good numbers.

Elite prospects has his stats going back to like U13AA lol

He put up 16 points in 17 games...sounds good right? He was 8th on his team...with guys putting up 65 points in 23 games for example...

You here guys like Yorkie say that anyone who sniffs the NHL were their teams best player at 13. Even grinders were superstars at 13, but had to adjust their games to make the NHL because not everyone can be a superstar at every level.

But Boucher was never even a top player in his minor hockey days.

Hey, look, he led his U14 team, but guys who played less put better ppg...and those guys are now 4th liners in NCAA.

What about prep school? 3rd in scoring behind 2 guys who have never sniffed pro hockey to this day.

What about u17 year? 10th on the team in points behind many guys who will never sniff the NHL.

What about u17 usntdp? 20th on the team in points.

What about university? 20th on the team...with most never going to play pro hockey.

It's hard when he's never really been the best on his team growing up at 12-13-14-15-16-17 etc.

Usually, even a defensive 4th liner is by far his best teams player in minor hockey. Obviously there are exceptions with late bloomers, but Boucher definitely isn't a late bloomer.

Someone like Chris Neil would be a type of player Boucher should try to copy...but even Neil who had to play 5 years of minor pro, still put up over a PPG in his last OHL season. Boucher couldn't even do that, and Boucher is know as more of an early bloomer than a late bloomer.
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Objectively and verifiably false.
 
aragorn said:
And yet he was ranked as a 1st rd player by several different ranking sites, even McKenzie the draft guru had him in the 1st rd, if I remember correctly. I'm not trying to defend the guy he clearly has had a very rough time of it with injuries & it's doubtful he can recover from it & may never make it. We'll see.
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Yeah, but I'm questioning those rankings, based on hockey history, as well as a big hint of hindsight haha.

I've often heard that it's very hard to make it to the NHL if you weren't the best player on your team in teenager years. Obviously there are late bloomers, but I don't see him as a late bloomer.

His production before draft SHOULD have scared people away...but apparently it didn't.

Obviously injured didn't help, but I question whether he would have even been a good late first round pick without injuries...not sure he ever had the skill to make the NHL. He hasn't shown it in lower leagues.

I seriously question if he could be over a PPG if he went back to the OHL as an overager last year. Not sure.

I see him as strong guy. A good skater. Decent shot. Willing combatant...good hitter...but that's about it.

I don't see any puck skills... Basic stickhandling, decking ability, playmaking ability... Or just the way he thinks the game...doesn't really get himself open, etc.

I just don't see it. He doesn't create offense at lower leagues.
 
Senator Stanley said:
Anyone who's making the USNTDP is a top player in his age group. That's basically the function of the program - identify who the top American players in an age group will be and bring them together.

Compare him to a guy like John Beecher, who was never the most productive prospect coming up but was a top prospect in his age group because he had the physical tools to play pro hockey. Beecher goes late 1st, which is around where Boucher should have been taken, and has made his way to the NHL despite never producing offensive at a high level.
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Sure, they're a "top" player in the sense they're likely to get drafted. But they aren't all top 10 talents, or even first round pick talents.

He was 20th and 37th on the team in scoring his two years he played with them.

Are those teams full of top prospects? Yes. Are a bunch of people ahead of Boucher drafted much lower or even undrafted? Yes.

It means he was a top 200 prospect that year? Sure. Was he a top 10? No.

Guys have made that team without even being ranked in the top prospects.

Saying "anyone who makes USBTDP is a top player in his age group" is false, or should come with an asterisk saying "among Americans" because there can be about 50-100 Canadian players and 25-50 European players that could rank ahead of some of the players on that roster. It's not an all star prospect team, but rather and all star prospect AMERICAN team that can have players that rank as low as never being drafted and never playing pro hockey.

It's not a "he's automatically good because he was on the program"

Anyone know who Jake Martin is, for example? Me neither. What about Colby saganiuk? Nope. Hunter strand anyone?

My point stands.
 
jbeck5 said:
Sure, they're a "top" player in the sense they're likely to get drafted. But they aren't all top 10 talents, or even first round pick talents.

He was 20th and 37th on the team in scoring his two years he played with them.

Are those teams full of top prospects? Yes. Are a bunch of people ahead of Boucher drafted much lower or even undrafted? Yes.

It means he was a top 200 prospect that year? Sure. Was he a top 10? No.

Guys have made that team without even being ranked in the top prospects.
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I'm not arguing he should have been a top 10 pick or that he was ever among the elite of the elite as a prospect. But the NHL is full of players who were not the elite of the elite as 14 year olds.

To provide some context on his USNDTP production, Boucher did have 14 points in 14 games in his U18 season. Saying he was 20th on the team in scoring, while technically accurate, ignores the fact that he was playing at a point-per-game pace, which is solid for the USNTDP. Lots of NHLers produced at a similar rate (Dylan Larkin, Josh Norris, Colin White, Alex Tuch to name a few), and it's a better rate of production than guys like Beecher or Trent Frederic, who were both late 1st round picks on the strength of their projectable physical tools. With the benefit of hindsight, those 14 games look like an outlier, but you can see why scouts would have liked him as a pro prospect, with a projectable floor and a bit of offence to dream on.

Again, I'm not defending the pick. But if he had been taken late in the 1st or early in the second, it would have at least been defensible.
 
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