Player Discussion Ty Emberson

[Cloned]

This continues to be one of the most laughable takes I’ve seen on this forum.

He’s better than Ceci, full stop.

He was shaky to start the year but has been completely solid since about November.

Ceci made at least one WTF play a game, when was the last time you remember Emberson making one?

 

[McDNicks17]

No, that is not the argument I am making. If you re-read my post you'll notice two things:
1). I did not wade into the Emberson vs Desharnais debate. I was a Desharnais fan, but I can see that Emberson is growing well into his own role.
2) I very specifically called you out on your disregard for the actual statistics that determine game outcome. And then pointing to on-ice SPCT to disregard his performance... I actually consider on-ice SPCT to be one of the BEST predictors of who is a good defensive defender. If you've played, you know your goalie (and coach) says things like: "let me see the puck, box them out, push them wide, clear the rebounds"... all of that increases save percentage.

Desharnais was a round peg in a round hole in Edmonton, and he performed very well defensively in his role. The stats supported that last year. You can't just disregard them because they don't suit your narrative. When he was in our zone, IMO, by eye test, he was right up there with Ekholm as the best defensively... very active stick, huge wingspan, and people did not camp out in front of our goalies... plenty of shots from the perimeter. It is therefore NOT AT ALL SURPRISING to me that the stats say his goalies had a 930 spct with him on the ice. Heck, I'd probably have an 890.

My commentary on his play last year is not the same as me espousing him as a fully established, consistent year-over-year and in all situations defender. I haven't followed his play in Vancouver this year, I don't know how they are using him and so no... I have no reason to suggest the poor stats this year are lying about his play... maybe they are also true.

One thing to note about Desharnais usage last year is that Knobloch heavily skewed it to in-zone starts, where rushes against were limited. As we know, off the rush, in the neutral zone, that's where Desharnais lack of speed got slaughtered when Woody was coaching.

Like I said though, if Desharnais’ main strength was raising his goalie’s save percentage, he wouldn’t have by far the worst onSV% on the Canucks.

 

[ManofSteel55]

He’s better than Ceci, full stop.

He was shaky to start the year but has been completely solid since about November.

Ceci made at least one WTF play a game, when was the last time you remember Emberson making one?

Uh...November?

 

[ManofSteel55]

Like I said though, if Desharnais’ main strength was raising his goalie’s save percentage, he wouldn’t have by far the worst onSV% on the Canucks.

Depends on how the Canucks are using him. The Oilers used him very heavily as an own-zone starter. He also had Kulak as a partner, and he makes all of his partners better. In Vancouver, his partner is Carson Soucy, who has good parts to his game, but I don't think is the kind of guy to anchor a pairing like Kulak does, where he consistently makes his pairing better.

 

[SwedishFire]

He’s better than Ceci, full stop.

He was shaky to start the year but has been completely solid since about November.

Ceci made at least one WTF play a game, when was the last time you remember Emberson making one?

I never understand that trade from Sharks side. What was the point of throwing away one of your most promising young Ds? Just weird over all.

But I'll thank them. I think its harder to find Emberson types at D than Broberg types. He will be a great 4-5 D here.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I never understand that trade from Sharks side. What was the point of throwing away one of your most promising young Ds? Just weird over all.

But I'll thank them. I think its harder to find Emberson types at D than Broberg types. He will be a great 4-5 D here.

They grabbed Emberson on waivers, and he played well for them, but they weren't invested in going forward. They got a pick and a player they might be able to move for a pick for a guy they were probably going to walk away from.

Emberson's performance and progression has made the Sharks look bad, but they knew they weren't good, so just acquiring assets to hope these magic beans hit.

Eitherway the Oilers won the trade and Emberson is a far better overall defenseman that Cody Ceci, the team is MUCH better with Emberson in the line up than Ceci.

AND it's NOT Close.

 

[nabob]

No, that is not the argument I am making. If you re-read my post you'll notice two things:
1). I did not wade into the Emberson vs Desharnais debate. I was a Desharnais fan, but I can see that Emberson is growing well into his own role.
2) I very specifically called you out on your disregard for the actual statistics that determine game outcome. And then pointing to on-ice SPCT to disregard his performance... I actually consider on-ice SPCT to be one of the BEST predictors of who is a good defensive defender. If you've played, you know your goalie (and coach) says things like: "let me see the puck, box them out, push them wide, clear the rebounds"... all of that increases save percentage.

Desharnais was a round peg in a round hole in Edmonton, and he performed very well defensively in his role. The stats supported that last year. You can't just disregard them because they don't suit your narrative. When he was in our zone, IMO, by eye test, he was right up there with Ekholm as the best defensively... very active stick, huge wingspan, and people did not camp out in front of our goalies... plenty of shots from the perimeter. It is therefore NOT AT ALL SURPRISING to me that the stats say his goalies had a 930 spct with him on the ice. Heck, I'd probably have an 890.

My commentary on his play last year is not the same as me espousing him as a fully established, consistent year-over-year and in all situations defender. I haven't followed his play in Vancouver this year, I don't know how they are using him and so no... I have no reason to suggest the poor stats this year are lying about his play... maybe they are also true.

One thing to note about Desharnais usage last year is that Knobloch heavily skewed it to in-zone starts, where rushes against were limited. As we know, off the rush, in the neutral zone, that's where Desharnais lack of speed got slaughtered when Woody was coaching.

You would need more data to make that assumption. If the Oilers allow more goal crease goals against while Emberson was on the ice and was the guy covering the crease then you’d likely be correct. But then you’d also have to show the same stats in the same scenario for VD.

But if a person is being honest most goals against aren’t scored against the oilers because of the scenarios you’re saying VD is, in your opinion, a superior player. A few goals on a random deflection or a softy by a goalie can greatly skew those percentages.

I think the biggest indicator would be that VD’s save% in Vancouver is the worst on the club, which would then mean he’s actually bad at all things you claim he’s really good at…or it means that the stat is more a reflection of the goalie than it is the Dman.

 

[SwedishFire]

They grabbed Emberson on waivers, and he played well for them, but they weren't invested in going forward. They got a pick and a player they might be able to move for a pick for a guy they were probably going to walk away from.

Emberson's performance and progression has made the Sharks look bad, but they knew they weren't good, so just acquiring assets to hope these magic beans hit.

Eitherway the Oilers won the trade and Emberson is a far better overall defenseman that Cody Ceci, the team is MUCH better with Emberson in the line up than Ceci.

AND it's NOT Close.

Ok, I follow your theory, but its just stupid. Throw him away because they grabbed him onw aivers before. Why should that matter, thats history, not present. What matters is how good he is, and wich potential he has, wich is great.
Bo, that trade doesnt make an sense from sharks side. Emberson is not old, hes young, and that is what sharks should had bet on. But okey, I thank them. But me thinks that Grier will be shortlived at his job... with this way of make moves