Two years later: Revisiting the Kotkaniemi - Dvorak swap

[DAChampion]

Two years ago, Kotkaniemi signed a 6.1 million dollar contract and then an 8x4.85 million dollar contract with the Canes. The Habs got a 1st and 2nd rounder. Kotkaniemi has produced 42 points in 148 games.

Dvorak was the acquired for a first and second. He's produced 61 points in 117 games and is being paid 4.45 million this year and next.

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[DramaticGloveSave]

KK should have abided his time and he’d have gotten his chance. Instead he got butthurt for being passed by Suzuki and not being able to earn increased PT and opportunity and signed that offer sheet.

The Dvorak trade has been a flop, mostly because it was an attempt to continue winning now post cup finals run and we’ve been terrible.

 

[Hoochi Papa]

Future considerations would've been better than Dvorak.

 

[David Suzuki]

he should have let KK go and kept the pick

 

[habsterr]

Where's the 3rd option? I want the draft picks and don't want Dvorak.

 

[Beige Van]

Kotkaniemi has produced 42 points in 148 games.

It's 72 points in 148 games. I'd prefer to have kept the picks and not traded for Dvo.

 

[Frank Drebin]

We all thought Dvorak was a better player than he really was.

It's called the Arizona effect. When you play a significant role for a horrible team, fans ignore the possibility that the player may have played a significant role in that teams suckage

 

[the valiant effort]

Take Tkachuk

 

[WeThreeKings]

We all thought Dvorak was a better player than he really was.

It's called the Arizona effect. When you play a significant role for a horrible team, fans ignore the possibility that the player may have played a significant role in that teams suckage

I didn't buy it at all, people were trying to make it think like MB found someone undervalued but he was just overvalued.

Now we can't give him away.

 

[NotProkofievian]

KK is the better player and will be in the future. But the big lesson is in contract control. Bergevin did something stupid and rushed a player for no discernible reason. As a direct result of that decision, he ended up in a situation where a promising young player could sign an offer sheet and was very surprised when that player did so. Well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions.

This is leaving aside the detriment to KK's development caused by putting him in the NHL too soon.

That's how you turn a 3rd overall pick into Christian f***ing Dvorak.

 

[Frank Drebin]

KK is the better player and will be in the future. But the big lesson is in contract control. Bergevin did something stupid and rushed a player for no discernible reason. As a direct result of that decision, he ended up in a situation where a promising young player could sign an offer sheet and was very surprised when that player did so. Well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions.

This is leaving aside the detriment to KK's development caused by putting him in the NHL too soon.

That's how you turn a 3rd overall pick into Christian f***ing Dvorak.

We've disagreed on the effects of rushing a player and long term development but you nailed it right here

 

[Ezpz]

Neither. Let kk walk and don't trade for Dvo when you know both Price and Weber are done and you're letting Danault walk.

 

[CHwest]

We all thought Dvorak was a better player than he really was.

It's called the Arizona effect. When you play a significant role for a horrible team, fans ignore the possibility that the player may have played a significant role in that teams suckage

Not we, they.

 

[ML16]

Two years ago, Kotkaniemi signed a 6.1 million dollar contract and then an 8x4.85 million dollar contract with the Canes. The Habs got a 1st and 2nd rounder. Kotkaniemi has produced 42 points in 148 games.

Dvorak was the acquired for a first and second. He's produced 61 points in 117 games and is being paid 4.45 million this year and next.

To recap that dreadful summer:

1. Leaving Kotkaniemi unsigned and vulnerable to an offer sheet was a plain stupid; especially with a foreseeable retaliation from Carolina after the Aho debacle.

2. Using Carolina’s compensation to acquired Dvorak was a ridiculous panic move.

3. In any event, if Bergevin didn’t see a future for Kotkaniemi with the Habs, a top-6 C spot was thus available and he should have offered it to Danault at 5.5M instead of wasting 6.5M on Gallagher for his past deeds.

In summary, the optimal track for the Habs knowing Kotkaniemi was to be OS’ed would have been to keep Danault and the compensation picks instead of Dvorak/Gallagher.

 

[Tripledeke333]

Where's the 3rd option? I want the draft picks and don't want Dvorak.

This. Not matching was the right move. Dvo was a base trade though.

 

[26Mats]

Two years ago, Kotkaniemi signed a 6.1 million dollar contract and then an 8x4.85 million dollar contract with the Canes. The Habs got a 1st and 2nd rounder. Kotkaniemi has produced 42 points in 148 games.

Dvorak was the acquired for a first and second. He's produced 61 points in 117 games and is being paid 4.45 million this year and next.

Re-signing KK and Danault was the right move.

But MB's bad decisions got him fired. So I'm very happy he made those decisions.

 

[Habs13]

Kotkaniemi was left open due to Bergevin's idiocy. That's the first mistake. It goes back to his misuse in the playoffs by the worst f***ing coach the NHL has ever, and will ever see. A man hired by bozo Bergevin. Then, when the player was disgruntled, he tried to low ball and be aggressive with him, thus exposing him to a team that was mad at bozo for offer sheeting one of their young stars.

This was all avoidable.

In hindsight, he should have matched the offer sheet if he was going to turn around and acquire Dvorak. At the time, I didn't want to lose Kotkaniemi and now his salary is decent. My only concerns are that maybe bozo doesn't get fired and we don't get the new management that brings in Dach.

Dvorak was a panic move and he got fleeced badly. Dvorak is terrible and likely wouldn't fetch a 3rd today.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Couldve won the Dubois derby if we had Kotkaniemi to trade

 

[Bouboumaster]

At the Time, I tought it was a good move, but Dvorak is underwhelming to say the least

He can still prove us wrong tho

 

[Habs Halifax]

he should have let KK go and kept the pick

Yup. Retain Danault, don't sign Hoffman and Armia, don't give Gallagher that term, and let KK go. The issue is we left ourselves open to center depth problems after letting Danault walk. Once the KK offer sheet happened and we didn't want to match, Bergevin felt compelled to trade for Dvorak.

I know I said this before and some fans don't like hearing it but this whole situation started by letting Danault walk. Some say he didn't want to stay but those are the same fans who wanted Danault to be a 3C and were pumping up KK as expert development coaches thinking he was being held back.

 

[That Habs Fan]

Where's the 3rd option? I want the draft picks and don't want Dvorak.

100% this.

Would have much rather kept the picks or moved them for something better than Dvo

 

[BLONG7]

Take Tkachuk

Mic drop!!!

Yup. Retain Danault, don't sign Hoffman and Armia, don't give Gallagher that term, and let KK go. The issue is we left ourselves open to center depth problems after letting Danault walk. Once the KK offer sheet happened and we didn't want to match, Bergevin felt compelled to trade for Dvorak.

I know I said this before and some fans don't like hearing it but this whole situation started by letting Danault walk. Some say he didn't want to stay but those are the same fans who wanted Danault to be a 3C and were pumping up KK as expert development coaches thinking he was being held back.

The year was 2017 and Bergevin started his descent to making awful awful decisions........his list of buffoon style moves are far many more than his few good moves.
His flawed philosophy cost us so so much.
Sad...........

 

[Habs Halifax]

Mic drop!!!

I'll never forget the comments said on our boards towards Tkachuk pre draft. Some of them were nasty and they tried to bully others off Tkachuk.

"WJC is a fluke small tournament". Sure, if you are the type to looks at points via Poehling types. With Tkachuk, you just see the confidence and how he shows up in big games. Never underestimate that part.

Mic drop!!!


The year was 2017 and Bergevin started his descent to making awful awful decisions........his list of buffoon style moves are far many more than his few good moves.
His flawed philosophy cost us so so much.
Sad...........

2017 was horrible for him. I do think they recovered a bit after that but it was too late. When I look at his time, I see waives of good years, bad years, and meh years. He just didn't have the right vision over the long haul. Kept changing his strategy

 

[Canadienna]

I don't get a ton right so I'm going to stomp that told ya so button on this one.

We absolutely positively should have matched the offer sheet. And I got roasted for saying so lol.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't get a ton right so I'm going to stomp that told ya so button on this one.

We absolutely positively should have matched the offer sheet. And I got roasted for saying so lol.

I went from saying yes, match to no, don't match. I admit, I was influenced. However, the true better decision won't be known for a while yet.

KK in the mix of Aho and Staal is a good situation for him. Staal is not as good as he once was but that's a staple up the middle for them. Huge center who makes things easy. Helps the coaches match-up game. Without Staal, I think Aho is targeted more and KK would be drowning a bit more too. It's a great situation for him IMO.

In many cases, who you are surrounded with is the best development.