TSN - tambelini wants bertuzzi on team canada

[Mr Sakich]

in response to Westcoast:

1Firstly, Bertuzzi is not particularly slow for his size, I wouldn't put him that far behind guys like Thornton and Nash as far as footspeed is concerned. I don't see you picking on the other bigger players...oh wait, your opinion has nothing to do with hockey really, see that makes more sense.

Guys like Thornton and Nash do not rely on their physical strength to overpower opponents. Bertuzzi is the prototypical NHL power forward and my hockey opinion is that speed and scoring are the best ways to beat the euro's on large ice surfaces. Bertuzzi's strengths are not put to best use in these situations.

2)Well I am not going to go searching about for any documentation I have to assume he is not the only player who has been relatively inactive since the off-season started oh so long ago. But I will admit this is a realistic concern that more level-headed and objective hockey fans might share

thank you for agreeing with me that this is a very good reason to keep him off the team. Most of the other star players (sakic, Lemiux, Iggy ) who have not played this season had the good sense to decline because they knew they would be a hindrence to the team.

3)Again, I do not see you complaining about the Thornton selection due to his propensity to take bad penalties. Good game bias.

I don't recall Thornton ever taking a stupid penalty with a minute left in a game 7 which cost his team a chance at tieing the game (in the words of Mr Class - This is BS). I also don't recall any talk of referee's having it in for Thornton. Bertuzzi is a marked man. Let him suffer the consequences of his stupidity as a Canuck, not as a member of Team Canada.

4)I like this one, especially since NO COLORADO PLAYERS have been put on the final roster for the team. So...so much for that. PS - This may or may not be due to some bias Tambellini is carrying around with him. Stay tuned!

cause or effect - which is it? I might argue that Blake and Sakic are not on the team partly because they want to avoid the barrage of questions that are certain to be asked. Do they stick up for a team-mate (Moore) or a team-mate - (Bertuzzi) ?

5)I think I'll take Brodeur's opinion on the issue over yours, since he has been in the dressing room for more then a few international tournaments...and won. His endorsement of Bertuzzi for the tournament should be all you need from a player perspective since he and Smyth have been labelled the 'Team Leaders' (by TSN

So if you were to ask all 22 players privately, they would say - Yes, I welcome the distraction?

Give your head a shake, of course they will publiclly defend a fellow player but do they really need the distraction. A good comparable is Tyrell Owens who is a game breaker and a team wrecker. Team Canada has a few short weeks to come together and having this huge distraction is not going to help.

That is my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[copperandblue]

To offer an opinion on the discussion.

I don't take issue with Tambellini wanting Bertuzzi on the WC team. Bertuzzi is a damn fine player and could likely contribute well to the cause.

The problem I have is that Bertuzzi isn't the only option and he isn't a must have on team. He is only 1 option out of a half dozen or more that could be considered.

With that said, this has the optics of a poorly disguised effort to get Bertuzzi re-instated prior to whenever hockey starts up again. It simply reeks of special interest on the part of a Vancouver Canucks manager.

Too me, that is wrong. Wether you fall on the side of the debate that Bertuzzi has served his time or requires more time is besides the point. The point should be that this is an NHL matter that needs proper NHL attention, fast tracking a decision because of a tournament that doesn't particularily require Bertuzzi's participation compromises that.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

how is Brodeur a stalwart? He has represented canada like twice in 10 years.

Gold in the 2002 Olympics, Champions at the 2004 World Cup, representing for the 2005 WHC. And that was just as a starter; wasn't he a backup for the 1998 Olympic Team in Nagano and the 1995 World Cup team? As for the WHC, he was almost always in the playoffs, so he couldn't make it.

Brodeur's won gold on almost every stage, and Wayne Gretzky called him Canada's best International goaltender. That makes him a stalwart in my eyes.

~Canucklehead~

 

[MykeAbner]

Guys like Thornton and Nash do not rely on their physical strength to overpower opponents. Bertuzzi is the prototypical NHL power forward and my hockey opinion is that speed and scoring are the best ways to beat the euro's on large ice surfaces. Bertuzzi's strengths are not put to best use in these situations.

Stick Bertuzzi in front of the net and his strength will be a factor. Regardless of ice size, he will still help tie up the Dmen.



thank you for agreeing with me that this is a very good reason to keep him off the team. Most of the other star players (sakic, Lemiux, Iggy ) who have not played this season had the good sense to decline because they knew they would be a hindrence to the team.

Yeah, you've got that right.



I don't recall Thornton ever taking a stupid penalty with a minute left in a game 7 which cost his team a chance at tieing the game (in the words of Mr Class - This is BS). I also don't recall any talk of referee's having it in for Thornton. Bertuzzi is a marked man. Let him suffer the consequences of his stupidity as a Canuck, not as a member of Team Canada.

That was Jovo, not Bertuzzi. Anyways, if there is going to be bad officiating, it will be there regardless of whether Bertuzzi is there or not.



cause or effect - which is it? I might argue that Blake and Sakic are not on the team partly because they want to avoid the barrage of questions that are certain to be asked. Do they stick up for a team-mate (Moore) or a team-mate - (Bertuzzi) ?

Judging by Sakic's past comments, it would be Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi has played with Colorado players before and there hasn't been a problem.



So if you were to ask all 22 players privately, they would say - Yes, I welcome the distraction?

So if you were to ask all 22 players privately, they would say - No, I don't want Bertuzzi on the team? We can't tell what they would say. The only thing we have to go off of is what players have said in the past.



Give your head a shake, of course they will publiclly defend a fellow player but do they really need the distraction. A good comparable is Tyrell Owens who is a game breaker and a team wrecker. Team Canada has a few short weeks to come together and having this huge distraction is not going to help.

Well, it seems to me that it is better to go by what people are actually saying instead of what you think that they feel like.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

in response to Westcoast:

1)
Guys like Thornton and Nash do not rely on their physical strength to overpower opponents. Bertuzzi is the prototypical NHL power forward and my hockey opinion is that speed and scoring are the best ways to beat the euro's on large ice surfaces. Bertuzzi's strengths are not put to best use in these situations.


2)
I don't recall Thornton ever taking a stupid penalty with a minute left in a game 7 which cost his team a chance at tieing the game (in the words of Mr Class - This is BS). I also don't recall any talk of referee's having it in for Thornton. Bertuzzi is a marked man. Let him suffer the consequences of his stupidity as a Canuck, not as a member of Team Canada.

3)
cause or effect - which is it? I might argue that Blake and Sakic are not on the team partly because they want to avoid the barrage of questions that are certain to be asked. Do they stick up for a team-mate (Moore) or a team-mate - (Bertuzzi) ?

4)
So if you were to ask all 22 players privately, they would say - Yes, I welcome the distraction?
wrong.

1)
Have you ever even watched Thornton?? He is ALL about setting up shop on the end-boards and using his size to protect the puck (usually until Muzz or Knuble get's open). Bertuzzi is very fast and agile for a guy his size -he has really soft hands too. My bro and best-friends are all Nuck fans -so it kills me to say this *but* Bertuzzi is a force. And certainly not 1-dimensional as you seem to be suggesting.

2)
Again, try watching before talking. Bruins fans have had to suffer through Thornton taking alot of stupid penalties in the play-offs over the years. He can be a snap-case at times...NHL players and Swiss goalies alike will testify to this. Thornton played brilliantly and DESCIPLINED for Canada this past summer. There is nothing to suggest Bertuzzi could not do the same.

3)Weak, weak, weak.

4)Sometimes a distraction can be VERY good to take the pressure off of everyone else. (See Gretzky red faced and angry in press-conference)

 

[Mr Sakich]

2003 playoffs, Game 7, Canucks down 3-2 with 4 minutes to play, Bertuzzi takes a selfish interference call, a blatant cross check to the back of a minny dman in front of the minny goal. Minny scores on the ensuing pp to put the game and series away. After the game, a remorsefull bertuzzi says " This is BS" to all of Canada on CBC. One of the all time stupid penalties. I know what it is like because raffi torres took a similarily stupid penalty last year which may have cost the oilers a playoff position.

Look guys, Read my post. I have never denied that Bertuzzi is a great player. Right now, he brings way too much baggage to Team Canada to justify his inclusion. For Tambellini to even consider him is disruptfull to the team and shows very poor judgement. S was pointed out earlier, it looks like he is trying to advance the canuck agenda at the expense of team canada.

it would be different if we were Team Germany and the alternative was Heimlich Lichtenstien. Canada does not need his baggage. If you canuck fans don't think he will be a marked man, you are wrong. The refs are going to call him every time he comes near a player who falls down. You canuck fans will get to enjoy that over the next few seasons. Team Canada is good enough to win without him.

 

[MykeAbner]

I did read your post and I responded accordingly. If you have a problem with Bertuzzi taking a penalty in the Minnesota series (which was just a terrible series, can't place any blame on Bert for that, the Canucks sucked as a hole) then you should quit ignoring people like Jovo and Thornton who do the same thing.

Canada could win without a lot of its players, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't include them in the roster because we are afraid that they may pose a distraction.

As for furthering the Canuck's agenda, Gretz would've put Bert on the roster too, so I don't think that that statement holds much credit.

 

[sunb]

Right now, he brings way too much baggage to Team Canada to justify his inclusion.

What baggage?

Heatley, all of a sudden, doesn't have baggage?

If you're referring to the Moore incident, you have to realize that players like Brodeur, Morrison, Jovanovski and possibly many others all support Bertuzzi on his reinstatement.

 

[Mr Sakich]

baggage - the ability to draw an undeserved penalty by skating next to another player, sad but true but bert is going to get called on every minor thing he does.

baggage - every team canada player getting asked about bertuzzi in every interview

baggage - being rusty because you have not been allowed to play organized hockey for the last 14 months because of something you did.

 

[sunb]

baggage - the ability to draw an undeserved penalty by skating next to another player, sad but true but bert is going to get called on every minor thing he does.

baggage - every team canada player getting asked about bertuzzi in every interview

baggage - being rusty because you have not been allowed to play organized hockey for the last 14 months because of something you did.

Bad bad examples...

1.) The same applies to Thornton.

2.) Hockey players are mentally tough individuals. I don't think a couple of questions would phase them out.

3.) Bertuzzi has played only 10 less NHL games than most players. I don't think rusty is a good excuse. Brodeur is only 15 games less "rustier" and Heatley is much more rusty. Jovanovski and Luongo are very rusty too by your standard.

 

[Old Hickory]

Just letting you guys know this thread is being watched very closely. You've done a great job of keeping it civil. Please continue

 

[Mr Sakich]

the same applies to Thornton ?? I think you missed the point I was making. A better example is Marchment. He was an effective dman for the oilers but his dirty hits should have gotten him tossed from the league. The oilers HAD to trade him when, everytime he came near an opponent, the ref would call a penalty.

These penalties would occur at critical times and they cost the oilers a lot of points. Eventually, this burden exceeded the value he brought to the team and he was traded. IMO, this is going to happen to Bertuzzi. He is on an incredibly short leash and it isn't worth the risk.

Thornton may take some boneheaded penalties, but he earns them. Bert is going to take unearned penalties. There are going to be many phantom calls against him.

Another example is the Leafs. I dislike the Leafs but even I see that they get royally screwed by the refs. I think it is a result of thier constant bellyaching and it starts with Quinn but the truth is - they get more marginal calls against them than they deserve.

Team Canada doesn't need a phantom call in a close game. We are good enough to win without Bert so why risk it?

 

[MykeAbner]

the same applies to Thornton ?? I think you missed the point I was making. A better example is Marchment. He was an effective dman for the oilers but his dirty hits should have gotten him tossed from the league. The oilers HAD to trade him when, everytime he came near an opponent, the ref would call a penalty.

These penalties would occur at critical times and they cost the oilers a lot of points. Eventually, this burden exceeded the value he brought to the team and he was traded. IMO, this is going to happen to Bertuzzi. He is on an incredibly short leash and it isn't worth the risk.

Thornton may take some boneheaded penalties, but he earns them. Bert is going to take unearned penalties. There are going to be many phantom calls against him.

Another example is the Leafs. I dislike the Leafs but even I see that they get royally screwed by the refs. I think it is a result of thier constant bellyaching and it starts with Quinn but the truth is - they get more marginal calls against them than they deserve.

Team Canada doesn't need a phantom call in a close game. We are good enough to win without Bert so why risk it?

If Bertuzzi had taken Moore out with a hit from behind or a knee on knee I would agree with you, but considering that what he did to Moore isn't exactly a standard hockey play I really don't think that the refs will be nailing him too hard.

In the end, this is just a few people guessing about how the refs will call the game though, so we can't do much besides waiting to see what happens.

 

[sunb]

the same applies to Thornton ?? I think you missed the point I was making. A better example is Marchment. He was an effective dman for the oilers but his dirty hits should have gotten him tossed from the league. The oilers HAD to trade him when, everytime he came near an opponent, the ref would call a penalty.

These penalties would occur at critical times and they cost the oilers a lot of points. Eventually, this burden exceeded the value he brought to the team and he was traded. IMO, this is going to happen to Bertuzzi. He is on an incredibly short leash and it isn't worth the risk.

Thornton may take some boneheaded penalties, but he earns them. Bert is going to take unearned penalties. There are going to be many phantom calls against him.

Another example is the Leafs. I dislike the Leafs but even I see that they get royally screwed by the refs. I think it is a result of thier constant bellyaching and it starts with Quinn but the truth is - they get more marginal calls against them than they deserve.

Team Canada doesn't need a phantom call in a close game. We are good enough to win without Bert so why risk it?

I am perfectly aware of the point you are making. Thornton will be closely scrutinized for calls too. While playing for Davos, he punched a goalie in the Swiss League twice in two different occasions, once for apparently no reason. He punched anoter player in that league.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Just wanted to add a few things(although I will probably be summarilly ignored just because I'm a Canucks fan).

As far as baggage goes, and being a distraction goes, I have a few points.

a) Theo Fleury on Team Canada in 2002. His off-ice troubles were widely publicized, and his addition to the scene was a hot topic of debate. Gretzky, and more importantly, the entire team, stuck with Theo and he was a key part of bringing Canada the gold.

b) Dany Heatley's playing for Canada, as well as Atlanta, after the fatal car crash that killed Dan Snyder. His Thrashers teammates, the community, as well as Team Canada, banded with Heatley and supported him to restore him to being the fantastic player that he is.

c) These guys are professionals. They know that off-ice troubles stay off the ice. When they're on the ice, they're on the ice, and anything that's off the ice, is off the ice. They are here to play hockey and win gold for the team. Yes, what happens in the locker room is important, and team chemistry is important. But Bertuzzi has not been labelled a locker room cancer, and a lot of the guys who have been recruited for Team Canada have publicly made comments over the last year that are in support of Bertuzzi.

Long and short, I agree that Bertuzzi will be a distraction. But not for the players of Team Canada; for the fans in the tournament who can't sympathize with what happened.

~Canucklehead~

 

[espo*]

I am perfectly aware of the point you are making. Thornton will be closely scrutinized for calls too. While playing for Davos, he punched a goalie in the Swiss League twice in two different occasions, once for apparently no reason. He punched anoter player in that league.

To be perfectly honest,any player with a Maple Leaf on their chest over there is closely scrutinzed for penalties every year.It's part of the European ref culture.A lot of times you have to go into games there assuming before the game even starts you are down a goal because they are gonna call a lot of horses%$t on us,always do.They won't admit it but the refs have a bias about Canuck players(and to a lesser extent North American players in general) over there.flame away euro posters,but that's the way it is and i have'nt seen it change yet.I'm still waiting for them to call us like any other team. Having Bertuzzi on the team will simply heighten their "awareness" shall we say.Awareness,yeah......that's a a nice politically correct way to say it.

have a Canadian player hit a guy clean in open ice there and he's in the box quicker than you can say "Bobby Clarke"