Olympics: [TSN] IOC will have to pay for NHL players

[1Gold Standard]

If we wee to discuss realistic proposals, I wonder if the following would work: IOC covers 25-30% of the insurance, NBC/CBC cover a part of the NA teams with Hockey Canada/USA Hockey covering the rest. IIHF and national federations cover the European teams for the remaining amounts.

I think Russia, Sweden and possibly Finland (with Laine, Puljujärvi potentially making huge contracts after their ELCs end) will have to deal with most insurance money. Czechs have more players but I don't think they have players with big contracts. I know the Finnish federation saved some of that 10 million € revenue from 2012 and 2013 Worlds for "worse days" (most of it going to hiring regional skill/talent coaches).

seems reasonable to me...

and as a sort of prelude to what a Team Canada would like if there's no NHL/IOC agreement, this is the roster for the upcoming German Cup.

Goalies: Danny Tailor, Barry Brust

D-men: Matt Robinson Kris Lee Charles Genoway Jeffrey Kinraid Patrick McNeill Jesse Blacker Jonathan Sigalet Brady Lamb

Forwards: Derek Roy Matt Ellison Bud Holloway Greg Scott Paul Szczechura Brandon Kozun Maxime Talbot Nick Peterson Kevin Clark Jon Matssumoto Brandon Buck Curtis Hamilton Andrew Gordon Trevor Parkes.


If this ends of being Team Canada in South Korea, then it could play for a gold medal, I'm not getting up at 4 in the morning or whatever time to watch this collection of players to play.

 

[Xokkeu]

seems reasonable to me...

and as a sort of prelude to what a Team Canada would like if there's no NHL/IOC agreement, this is the roster for the upcoming German Cup.

Goalies: Danny Tailor, Barry Brust

D-men: Matt Robinson Kris Lee Charles Genoway Jeffrey Kinraid Patrick McNeill Jesse Blacker Jonathan Sigalet Brady Lamb

Forwards: Derek Roy Matt Ellison Bud Holloway Greg Scott Paul Szczechura Brandon Kozun Maxime Talbot Nick Peterson Kevin Clark Jon Matssumoto Brandon Buck Curtis Hamilton Andrew Gordon Trevor Parkes.


If this ends of being Team Canada in South Korea, then it could play for a gold medal, I'm not getting up at 4 in the morning or whatever time to watch this collection of players to play.

The real question I think comes down at least for the US team, is it AHL players get to go.

 

[kurt]

Crazy to me that Olympic athletes aren't paid. They all should be paid.

 

[Nino33]

It is the same for everyone not just NHL or NA sports, everyone has to shutdown their business when the national team is calling, it is only that it is the NA leagues that is the only one that do not play along, and therefore make the international scene for hockey more boring and corrupt.

I honestly don't know what you're referring to....when soccer/football is played in the Olympics the leagues worldwide don't shut down; almost every player from teams with any chance of a medal in Olympic hockey come from the NHL; most Olympic sports are things North Americans played in grade school and/or do for recreation, I'm not aware of a lot of professional leagues for these sports

I get it, many Europeans think the Olympics matter, most North Americans don't (the only difference I see is North Americans don't run down Europeans for their choices, they simply live their life and don't care.....while some Europeans seem to think NA must "play along" for the benefit of the Europeans, even when NA doesn't care)


Who knows, maybe the NHL players will continue to be in the Olympics! Maybe they won't.....but for sure it doesn't matter much (and for sure the NHL will carry on as by far the best league with the best players regardless)

 

[Nino33]

Crazy to me that Olympic athletes aren't paid. They all should be paid.

Those that play sports that the public actually has a significant interest in get paid quite well outside of the Olympics

 

[kurt]

Those that play sports that the public actually has a significant interest in get paid quite well outside of the Olympics

Somebody is making big money off them, but it isn't the country they're representing, and it isn't them. If their sport is getting viewers, selling tickets, etc, they should be getting a piece of the pie. Then again, I think NCAA athletes and major junior hockey players should be getting paid, too. I guess they're at least getting an education out of the deal, but still.

 

[Xokkeu]

I honestly don't know what you're referring to....when soccer/football is played in the Olympics the leagues worldwide don't shut down; almost every player from teams with any chance of a medal in Olympic hockey come from the NHL; most Olympic sports are things North Americans played in grade school and/or do for recreation, I'm not aware of a lot of professional leagues for these sports

I get it, many Europeans think the Olympics matter, most North Americans don't (the only difference I see is North Americans don't run down Europeans for their choices, they simply live their life and don't care.....while some Europeans seem to think NA must "play along" for the benefit of the Europeans, even when NA doesn't care)


Who knows, maybe the NHL players will continue to be in the Olympics! Maybe they won't.....but for sure it doesn't matter much (and for sure the NHL will carry on as by far the best league with the best players regardless)

Hah! The US almost funds the IOC by itself buying Olympic rights. North Americans certainly think the Olympics matter.

 

[Nino33]

Hah! The US almost funds the IOC by itself buying Olympic rights. North Americans certainly think the Olympics matter.

The "US" doesn't buy Olympics broadcasting rights, a single business does (while multiple other similar businesses carry on, plus many other entertainment options continue to occur as usual at the same time)

Yes many North Americans pay some attention (not even the majority) when the Olympics are on but they really don't "care" (and the US in particular focuses on US athletes almost exclusively) - if NHL players don't play in the Olympics (the point of this thread) North Americans as a whole aren't going to really care


Your point about the NA broadcast rights essentially funding the IOC to me just supports the idea the IOC should be paying the $ requested of them to have NHL players

 

[Nino33]

Somebody is making big money off them, but it isn't the country they're representing, and it isn't them. If their sport is getting viewers, selling tickets, etc, they should be getting a piece of the pie. Then again, I think NCAA athletes and major junior hockey players should be getting paid, too. I guess they're at least getting an education out of the deal, but still.

For most of the Olympic sports they're not getting significant viewers/selling significant tickets (it actually costs more to put on the event for the cities involved)

They do get money for training and living expenses from the government and sponsors, for the sports that aren't already pro I don't suspect "their cut" would be much more than that, if at all more


The ratings for the Brazil Olympics were very low (the networks have likely spent more on getting broadcasting rights than they'll ever recoup); the idea of the Olympics being a "showpiece" for a network in NA, and worth the investment, isn't really the case anymore

At best Olympic interest in NA is every 4 years for a few weeks, and that's it
And if they weren't on, North Americans would just partake in the many other options for entertainment

 

[FiLe]

Crazy to me that Olympic athletes aren't paid. They all should be paid.

If they were forcing athletes to participate, I'd agree 100%.

But as far as I've heard, each and every one of them has showed up voluntarily to date. Even when they fully well know they aren't getting paid.

 

[Xokkeu]

The "US" doesn't buy Olympics broadcasting rights, a single business does (while multiple other similar businesses carry on, plus many other entertainment options continue to occur as usual at the same time)

Yes many North Americans pay some attention (not even the majority) when the Olympics are on but they really don't "care" (and the US in particular focuses on US athletes almost exclusively) - if NHL players don't play in the Olympics (the point of this thread) North Americans as a whole aren't going to really care


Your point about the NA broadcast rights essentially funding the IOC to me just supports the idea the IOC should be paying the $ requested of them to have NHL players

Are you talking about Olympic hockey? Because I can guarantee you Americans care a whole lot more about the Olympics than the NHL.

 

[Nino33]

Are you talking about Olympic hockey? Because I can guarantee you Americans care a whole lot more about the Olympics than the NHL.

So here you just meant the majority of the players have the Stanley Cup as #1? http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=123822737&postcount=210

You think the millions of fans going to games every year (and the games on TV) says less about caring than following a tournament every 4 years? I don't
If the American team's not in the medal round, you think many Americans would bother watching? I don't

What makes you such an expert that you can guarantee your opinion is correct?

 

[Xokkeu]

So here you just meant the majority of the players have the Stanley Cup as #1? http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=123822737&postcount=210

You think the millions of fans going to games every year (and the games on TV) says less about caring than following a tournament every 4 years? I don't
If the American team's not in the medal round, you think many Americans would bother watching? I don't

What makes you such an expert that you can guarantee your opinion is correct?

Sorry but your ludicrous statement that the Olympics don't matter to North Americans was either poorly worded or just wrong.

 

[Nino33]

Sorry but your ludicrous statement that the Olympics don't matter to North Americans was either poorly worded or just wrong.

You didn't respond to anything I actually said, not sure why...

I'm not the one guaranteeing my opinions are correct, or calling the opinions of others ludicrous (you seem pretty bitter/argumentative and unable to actually support your views)

 

[Xokkeu]

You didn't respond to anything I actually said, not sure why...

I'm not the one guaranteeing my opinions are correct, or calling the opinions of others ludicrous (you seem pretty bitter/argumentative and unable to actually support your views)

242 million Americans watched at least some of the Sochi Olympics. That's 70% of the population.

NBC averaged 21 million viewers.

NBC paid $4 billion dollars for four Olympics.


So again. Either you worded your statement wrong, or you're just wrong that North Americans don't care about the Olympics.

 

[Nino33]

NBC averaged 21 million viewers.

In 2014 there were roughly 245 million US persons age 18 and older...averaging 21 million viewers means typically 91% of US adults were NOT watching the Olympics; the Sochi Olympics weren't watched by many more people than popular TV shows that year

I figured out a long time ago that so called "popular shows" like American Idol (which at its peak had over 30 million average viewers) may be considered "popular" but in reality the vast majority is NOT paying attention

Regarding the Sochi Olympics, when 9 out of 10 adults typically aren't paying attention, that doesn't show a lot of "care" IMO; we'll just have to agree to disagree

I don't have cable myself and don't watch TV; I'm part of the vast majority of North American adults that at any given time is NOT watching anything on TV

Thanks for the discussion

 

[Jussi]

In 2014 there were roughly 245 million US persons age 18 and older...averaging 21 million viewers means typically 91% of US adults were NOT watching the Olympics; the Sochi Olympics weren't watched by many more people than popular TV shows that year

I figured out a long time ago that so called "popular shows" like American Idol (which at its peak had over 30 million average viewers) may be considered "popular" but in reality the vast majority is NOT paying attention

Regarding the Sochi Olympics, when 9 out of 10 adults typically aren't paying attention, that doesn't show a lot of "care" IMO; we'll just have to agree to disagree

I don't have cable myself and don't watch TV; I'm part of the vast majority of North American adults that at any given time is NOT watching anything on TV

Thanks for the discussion

Yuo have to take those numbers in context. When it comes to tv sports viewership, Olympics are big in the US. NBC also faired well with their online services.

 

[Jussi]

Somebody is making big money off them, but it isn't the country they're representing, and it isn't them. If their sport is getting viewers, selling tickets, etc, they should be getting a piece of the pie. Then again, I think NCAA athletes and major junior hockey players should be getting paid, too. I guess they're at least getting an education out of the deal, but still.

This might come as a surprise to you but people genrally don't get into sports to get paid. Majority of the Olympians also do get paid, national OCs give them training grants plus they have their own sponsors. Should they get a medal, they'll get medal bonuses from the same instances and it's most often much more than they'd make from a regular job in a year (e.g. Russian gold medalists got 6 figure sums and a car).

 

[Nino33]

Yuo have to take those numbers in context. When it comes to tv sports viewership, Olympics are big in the US. NBC also faired well with their online services.

What context are you referring to? On average 9 out of 10 adults aren't watching.....which is typical of any "popular" show, so something being "popular" is a lot different than a significant number/the majority actually "caring"

And the TV show comparison numbers only including TV viewership numbers and not online as well, so it's an "apples to apples" comparison

I didn't think the issue was whether something was deemed "popular" (which can be the case with only a small fraction watching), it was whether a significant number of North Americans/Americans would really "care" if the NHL wasn't involved in the Olympics...I still stand by my opinion that a significant number don't/won't care

 

[jj cale]

I am wondering how much ratings for olympic hockey are going to drop in Canada for games on in the early morning hours with next to no nhl players playing?

Before the NHL got involved there was still great interest in olympic hockey without pros because Canadians knew their best players could not play so it was an accepted thing and we watched because there was no option and we went in with an underdog mentality and hoped we could get the upset over juggernaut Soviet and Czech teams. But now with having had the best of our players play and win multiple golds it is difficult to see Canadians working themselves into the old mentality they used to have for olympic hockey,especially when games will be on at 3-4 in the morning.

I would have to think viewership decline is going to be very drastic here in 2018 if the NHL does not go. It could be pretty ugly.

 

[Nino33]

Before the NHL got involved there was still great interest in olympic hockey without pros because Canadians knew their best players could not play so it was an accepted thing and we watched because there was no option and we went in with an underdog mentality and hoped we could get the upset over juggernaut Soviet and Czech teams.

As I recall most games Canada played weren't even actually televised (I think in 1980 only the Canada/Russia game was), and there were no sports networks back then HaHa

 

[jj cale]

As I recall most games Canada played weren't even actually televised (I think in 1980 only the Canada/Russia game was), and there were no sports networks back then HaHa

I can't remember for sure but I think they used to televise any games we were involved in against teams that mattered such as Russia,Czech,Sweden. But as for games against the also rans I am thinking they were not always on t.v.

Won't matter who they are playing and what coverage there is in South Korea in 2018 if the NHL players are not there though,I suspect it is basically a given people in Canada will stay away in droves.

Viewership globally will still be solid though.

 

[Nino33]

Viewership globally will still be solid though.

Probably/I would expect so

 

[kurt]

For most of the Olympic sports they're not getting significant viewers/selling significant tickets (it actually costs more to put on the event for the cities involved)

They do get money for training and living expenses from the government and sponsors, for the sports that aren't already pro I don't suspect "their cut" would be much more than that, if at all more


The ratings for the Brazil Olympics were very low (the networks have likely spent more on getting broadcasting rights than they'll ever recoup); the idea of the Olympics being a "showpiece" for a network in NA, and worth the investment, isn't really the case anymore

At best Olympic interest in NA is every 4 years for a few weeks, and that's it
And if they weren't on, North Americans would just partake in the many other options for entertainment

I just think as a matter of principle entertainers should be entitled to a share of revenue generated by their entertainment. Note that I left your bold formatting - I'm not bolding that line to refer to it specifically or anything.

If they were forcing athletes to participate, I'd agree 100%.

But as far as I've heard, each and every one of them has showed up voluntarily to date. Even when they fully well know they aren't getting paid.

Pretty weird line of reasoning. Lots of people do lots of things voluntarily in frameworks where they have little or no power/tools to ensure their interests are represented. The IOC makes boatloads of money off of the backs of these athletes, and I think their interests should be protected. In just the same way I think standards should be in place for safe working conditions, minimum wages are important, etc. It's not that foreign of a concept when you think about it.

This might come as a surprise to you but people genrally don't get into sports to get paid. Majority of the Olympians also do get paid, national OCs give them training grants plus they have their own sponsors. Should they get a medal, they'll get medal bonuses from the same instances and it's most often much more than they'd make from a regular job in a year (e.g. Russian gold medalists got 6 figure sums and a car).

See above. Sure, nations reward their athletes through grants, etc. But none of that is coming from the revenues generated by the event itself.

 

[Jussi]

Pretty weird line of reasoning. Lots of people do lots of things voluntarily in frameworks where they have little or no power/tools to ensure their interests are represented. The IOC makes boatloads of money off of the backs of these athletes, and I think their interests should be protected. In just the same way I think standards should be in place for safe working conditions, minimum wages are important, etc. It's not that foreign of a concept when you think about it.



See above. Sure, nations reward their athletes through grants, etc. But none of that is coming from the revenues generated by the event itself.

For example, athletes competing at IAAF events during their season make their money from those events (only soem get paid for just competing) but they don't get paid for competing at their premier event, the IAAF World Championships. The price money there is fairly big already plus WR bonuses. At the Olympics, national OCs take care of performance bonuses (ie. medals). The cost of Olympics would go through the roof if tehy paid every athlete. They already get free housing and food.