TSN: Canada's list of invited players

[Epsilon]

I would have thought the lessons of 1998 would have shown Canada that picking league grinders to fill out the grinder positions on international teams is not the way to go. The correct thing to do is to pick star players and then have them occupy the 3rd line roles. This is what Gretzky did successfully in 2002 and 2004 with players like Shane Doan and Brendan Morrow. On the other hand in 1998, Clarke decided to bring NHL 3rd liners like Zamuner, who then proceeded to look like AHLers in the face of the various all-star filled lineups.

 

[looooob]

I would have thought the lessons of 1998 would have shown Canada that picking league grinders to fill out the grinder positions on international teams is not the way to go. The correct thing to do is to pick star players and then have them occupy the 3rd line roles. This is what Gretzky did successfully in 2002 and 2004 with players like Shane Doan and Brendan Morrow. On the other hand in 1998, Clarke decided to bring NHL 3rd liners like Zamuner, who then proceeded to look like AHLers in the face of the various all-star filled lineups.

I can't disagree with that. Of course the likes of Doan and Morrow (and lets not forget Draper and Maltby) have the attributes to be grinders--its not like they cast Cory Stillman, Marc Savard and Mike Ribeiro in those roles

let's wait until the final team is picked either way. I think the roster won't appear too ridiculous

 

[Epsilon]

I can't disagree with that. Of course the likes of Doan and Morrow (and lets not forget Draper and Maltby) have the attributes to be grinders--its not like they cast Cory Stillman, Marc Savard and Mike Ribeiro in those roles

let's wait until the final team is picked either way. I think the roster won't appear too ridiculous

For an even more appropriate example, consider Jordin Tootoo. He was cast as a 3rd-4th liner for Canada at the WJCs, his appropriate role in the NHL and at high-level competition, but he was one of the leading scorers in the WHL, not some 3rd liner.

 

[looooob]

For an even more appropriate example, consider Jordin Tootoo. He was cast as a 3rd-4th liner for Canada at the WJCs, his appropriate role in the NHL and at high-level competition, but he was one of the leading scorers in the WHL, not some 3rd liner.

good point. of course seems like everyone (well not everyone) thought that was a great pick at the time. good comparison though

 

[Red Machine]

For an even more appropriate example, consider Jordin Tootoo. He was cast as a 3rd-4th liner for Canada at the WJCs, his appropriate role in the NHL and at high-level competition, but he was one of the leading scorers in the WHL, not some 3rd liner.

Thats exactly why i think Stone makes the team as a 4th liner, as he has certain attributes which make him an effective grinder. But at the same time he is leading the WHL in scoring. But lets face it, most of the top scorers have to be pretty gritty and tough to score in the Western League. It simply is a tougher league. Period.

 

[goteam]

My lines

Bergeron-Crosby-Perry
Dawes-Richards-Stewart
Getzlaf-Carter-Fehr
Stone-Fraser-Colliton
Ladd

Phaneuf-Weber
Coburn-Green
Barker-Seabrook
Belle

Nastiuk
Glass

 

[Epsilon]

Thats exactly why i think Stone makes the team as a 4th liner, as he has certain attributes which make him an effective grinder. But at the same time he is leading the WHL in scoring. But lets face it, most of the top scorers have to be pretty gritty and tough to score in the Western League. It simply is a tougher league. Period.

Guys like Stone are the types of players they should be bringing as 4th liners, absolutely.

Guys like Fraser are not.

 

[wheatiesfan]

I think Fehr and Stone would make a great addition to this team, they would work excellent on a line together with a player like Corey Perry or Jeremy Colliton.

The only omissions I didn't like were Brule and my buddy Travis Zajac up front, and possibly one of the OHL goalies (Munce or Shantz) instead of one of the dub goalies (possibly Beauchemain)

 

[Stiffler's Mom]

I suspect this might be a reason Brule didn't get an invite as he's been a stupid penalty looking for a place to happen this year. If he plays the way at this tourney that he's played in the WHL he'll hurt the team with his discipline.

What? Like Getzlaff, Ladd and Phaneuf don't take stupid penalties? A little bit of a double standard here don't you think? Brule never hurts his team. He is the best asset of the Giants.

 

[jcpenny]

I've heard it is on the larger Olympic size ice surface??

Could someone confirm it??

 

[Lalonde]

Only three french-speaking players in the roster (Bergeron, Picard, Beauchemin)? And Beauchemin is from the West ... Only four players from QMJHL, including Bergeron?! It looks like obvious bias and francophobia.
32 player are in the roster ,21 player from WHL of them! All four goalkeepers are from WHL! Well,well...
Yes, I know that WHL is stronger than QMJHL, but not in 7 times all the same!

But...
On the other hand, Sutter is the Westerner and he builds a team of his style. Нe takes those players whom he knows well .Maybe,he is right. Very strong "western" defence! If Canada will win, nobody can condemn him for his choice. Good luck to Canada anyway.

 

[Jeffrey]

If i look at the past memorial cup the Q was right there with the OHL and WHL. The style is just different. But Bush league? thats just being ignorant.

I was sarcastic

 

[Thundermare]

Only three french-speaking players in the roster (Bergeron, Picard, Beauchemin)? And Beauchemin is from the West ... Only four players from QMJHL, including Bergeron?! It looks like obvious bias and francophobia.
32 player are in the roster ,21 player from WHL of them! All four goalkeepers are from WHL! Well,well...
Yes, I know that WHL is stronger than QMJHL, but not in 7 times all the same!

But...
On the other hand, Sutter is the Westerner and he builds a team of his style. Нe takes those players whom he knows well .Maybe,he is right. Very strong "western" defence! If Canada will win, nobody can condemn him for his choice. Good luck to Canada anyway.

Being a french speaking Q fan I have to say that I only see two (Bernier and Bourret) other that might have had a chance and even soo

Those who have been selected from the Q are The ones that I would have picked, and I would probably also would have pass on the two leftover

 

[Blind Gardien]

Okay, then FWhateverIW at this point... pre-camp performances, which could change things, here's my final roster:
Dawes-Richards-Stewart
Getzlaf-Carter-Ladd
Fehr-Crosby-Bergeron
Colliton-Stone-Meyer
Bolland
(I like Boyd a lot too, but I'm just thinking that if Fehr doesn't click or is juggled down to re-unite with Stone in the event of injury, I'm happier putting Bolland anywhere in the lineup as a substitute. Meanwhile, one will notice that I've left Perry off the roster in favour of Ladd. I don't know if that's wise or not, but it's purely a chemistry move. I'd actually be a bit relieved if Sutter took Perry instead, but I'm rolling the dice the other way myself, pre-camp.)

Phaneuf-Weber
Seabrook-Coburn
Barker-Green
Belle
(This is the least controversial area. I have to take Green over Syvret, as much as I like Syvret. In fact, I'd be giving Green a regular shift ahead of Belle.)

Beauchemin
Glass
(unconventional in goal, I admit, but I just can't shake my distrust of Nastiuk and Dubnyk both, even though they seem on paper like better selections )

 

[Vyse64]

i can't wait until Canada win Gold to see some of you eat crow

i just read the whole thread and i heard nothing but whining and *****in' b/c of only 3 Q guys and Bernier, get over it, it happens every year to the 2 other leagues its just the Q turn and this is only the invite camp.

as for the goaltending its wide open to anyone, no one stands out above the rest even if you do include the OHL and Q goalies. For 10 or 11 years it been all about the Q (rightfully so) so be happy about that

 

[Hiishawk]

i can't wait until Canada win Gold to see some of you eat crow

i just read the whole thread and i heard nothing but whining and *****in' b/c of only 3 Q guys and Bernier, get over it, it happens every year to the 2 other leagues its just the Q turn and this is only the invite camp.

as for the goaltending its wide open to anyone, no one stands out above the rest even if you do include the OHL and Q goalies. For 10 or 11 years it been all about the Q (rightfully so) so be happy about that

Well, if Canada doesn't win, you can be sure that some posters here will say something like, "I knew that if they took McArthur over Bernier they wouldn't win!", as if those one or two controversial selections will make all the difference.

 

[Vyse64]

Well, if Canada doesn't win, you can be sure that some posters here will say something like, "I knew that if they took McArthur over Bernier they wouldn't win!", as if those one or two controversial selections will make all the difference.

let them, really wouldn't care about that at all, it just more *****in', it all they ever do

 

[pei fan]

MY BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THIS WHOLE SCENARIO IS NOT WITH THE LACK OF
REGIONAL REPRESENTATION BUT WITH NOT SELECTING THE BEST PLAYERS.
Last year was the same and also they didn't play the best players that they did
select.Last year their system worked great until they met up with a fast USA
team.The second line was no longer effective and it was pretty apparent even
early on the cracks were beginning to show. OF COURSE this team should win.
We should be able to suit up 3 teams that could give it a go- there is so much
talent. BUT we haven't won since 1997 so there's reason for concern.ALSO
even if we do win,it still comes at a cost to our future teams by leaving them
with very little experience in that tournament.NAME ME A 17 YEAR OLD PLAYER
AS TALENTED AS BRULE THAT HAS BEEN LEFT OFF HIS NATIONAL JUNIOR TEAM
EVER ,EITHER IN THIS COUNTRY OR ANOTHER.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

You are really blind to the whole point yelling everything from bias to discrimination to try to make your point ..

Mine was the players invited Know each other better played together in the Russia challenge and are teammates throughout the year ..

Often teams take pairs ..

Calgary .. Getzlaf and Ladd
Brandon ..Stone and Fehr
Medicine Hat .. Clarke MacArthur & Stefan Meyer
Red Deer .. Sutter own Team ..Fraser leading scorer ..

My point was chemistry with players that play together all the time .. Is Ryan Stone going to have more chemistry with his own WHL linemate Eric Fehr or Steve Bernier in the short term,and if the team only wants one type winger like that Fehr would be the logical choice .. Stone and Fehr lead the WHL in scoring .. Why would someone want to break that up .. In fact a betting man would say that you should pencil in both or neither to the WJC team ...

That's not politics as you are making out .. that is chemistry and familiarity as I am making a point...

If chemistry and being familioar with each other is big then why not just invite an actual CHL team to go.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

So what's the conspiracy theory that explains why the WHL and OHL destroy the Q at the Entry Draft in almost every year?

You have 4 more teams, which means more players. Per team we have as many players picked as the WHL and OHL.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

I would have thought the lessons of 1998 would have shown Canada that picking league grinders to fill out the grinder positions on international teams is not the way to go. The correct thing to do is to pick star players and then have them occupy the 3rd line roles. This is what Gretzky did successfully in 2002 and 2004 with players like Shane Doan and Brendan Morrow. On the other hand in 1998, Clarke decided to bring NHL 3rd liners like Zamuner, who then proceeded to look like AHLers in the face of the various all-star filled lineups.

Well, it's top level international hockey.

I think you may be caught up with how these guys project at the NHL-level. But against juniors, the lineup of Canada will most definitly not be made up of 3rd liners. Most are going to be high-level junior players unless there are surprises.

And anyway, I do not believe in a lesson learned from a very short sample. It's not nearly enough to be sure. I doubt there is a one true way to build a winner. The players selected will go up against other squads and whoever plays better will win it. A cliche but applies here.

Plus, although Zamuner was lauded and praised that year, he completely sucked ass and was an extremely bad choice for that tournament due to his skating and blatant lack of talent at that level/format. He was overhyped at that time and was selected God knows why.

I really doubt anyone who will make the team will be a good comparison.

I don't agree with all the choices so far but it's decent enough for me.

 

[PanthersRule96]

If chemistry and being familioar with each other is big then why not just invite an actual CHL team to go.

How about the Pouliot-Roussin-Crosby line? I bet their chemistry is so great that they'd be able to go up against other top lines even if 2 of the 3 are not AMAIZING.

 

[markov`]

Well, it's top level international hockey.

I think you may be caught up with how these guys project at the NHL-level. But against juniors, the lineup of Canada will most definitly not be made up of 3rd liners. Most are going to be high-level junior players unless there are surprises.

And anyway, I do not believe in a lesson learned from a very short sample. It's not nearly enough to be sure. I doubt there is a one true way to build a winner. The players selected will go up against other squads and whoever plays better will win it. A cliche but applies here.

Plus, although Zamuner was lauded and praised that year, he completely sucked ass and was an extremely bad choice for that tournament due to his skating and blatant lack of talent at that level/format. He was overhyped at that time and was selected God knows why.

I really doubt anyone who will make the team will be a good comparison.

I don't agree with all the choices so far but it's decent enough for me.

Tell me how are Dustin Boyd and Andrew Ladd stars in the WHL. They're both out of the top 20 scoring. Pouliot or Roussin doubled both Boyd and Ladd production this year. Same can be said for Bourret (45 points, Ladd 23 points).

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Tell me how are Dustin Boyd and Andrew Ladd stars in the WHL. They're both out of the top 20 scoring. Pouliot or Roussin doubled both Boyd and Ladd production this year. Same can be said for Bourret (45 points, Ladd 23 points).

I didn't say those guys were stars, nor do I care whether they are or not. I just want very solid players who can prevail in most situations. Don't forget that the roster is just for the selection process. Nothing is in stone yet. A guy like Ladd might or might not make it, for instance. He's however a very good player and yes, I would pick him before all three guys you mentioned.

Now, don't go thinking I don't like any other player. I think you could make a case for over TEN more juniors who didn't make camp. I think you and I, and most people would probably agree on that. But I contend the difference is extremely small and that there is more to this than point totals. For instance I'd pick Steve Bernier over all the guys you named. He might not have Bourret's numbers but gimme Bernier anytime for this tournament.

Ladd is obviously not going to be the main offense weapon if he makes it but he can grind it out and has very good hockey sense, including offensively. He can score and pass and will work very well with Getzlaf if he makes it.

You could make a case for so many players, IMO. I'm just glad that most of the names are logical enough for me. I would have done it a little differently. Ladd would still probably be on my team, though.

This is without a doubt the year of the WHL. The deck was stacked in their favor thanks to great talent+Sutter. They're so packed, guys like Brule didn't even make the camp. Heck, Clayton Stoner didn't even make the Russia challenge despite the split squad for the two games, and he wipes the floor with almost any QMJHL defenseman. He's also statistically very impressive, since you put a lot of weight on that (16 points in 17 games).

Next year guys like Bourret will have a better chance.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

If chemistry and being familioar with each other is big then why not just invite an actual CHL team to go.

I wouldn't go that far but you could be surprised by how good such a team would be

Anyway, I think chemistry is a good thing if you have high profile players. With equal talent, I'll favor chemistry. But I wouldn't invite pluggers because of chemistry.

There's a huge difference between some 2nd grade hacks and the kind of names that have (possibly) been invited because of chemistry. Most of the players on this roster are high quality enough, chemistry or not. On their own, they are good players, IMO.