TSN: Canada's list of invited players

[Mess]

You are naive if you dont think politics played a part in it. Politics plays a part in any team.

To a point .. just like High Draft picks here at HF means better Team player apparently .. or the same SMALL PLAYER stereotype discrimination plays in when these players get the same opportunities for the NHL then bigger ones.

Team Canada is building a team based directly on politics alone though like you are making it out to be .. The Q has a reputation of being a softer, Higher scoring league and the WHL the opposite .. so perhaps that stereotype plays a part in Sutters decision, because his style is more WHL oreinted .. But when Habsheid coached the team ..he didn't have a lot of Q players either and so he can't be accused of the same bias as Sutter ..

Team Canada is trying to win Gold here and if they thought some of the Q players are the best fit they would be their Politics aside IMO .. but if Eric Fehr and Steve Bernier are similar players than the one that the coach is more familar with will get the nod , politics aside ...

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

You say Bernier may not find chemistry from players from the WHL. That is quite laughable. So only players from the WHL can play successfully from players from the WHL? Why is Crosby on the team then?

If anyone from the QMJHL plays a "WHL style" its Steve Bernier.

Why cant WHL fans just admit that Sutter wanted to invite "his boys"

So you don't think Bernier's poor performance in the summer camp had anything to do with it?

 

[RDriesen]

question for those using the whl vs russia games as an argument for the players being picked over the q players based on the q vs russia series.

what would have been the outcome of the q vs russia series if picard and crosby played and russias goalie and radulov didnt?

what would have been the outcome of the whl vs russia series been if you take 2 of the whl's best players out and had that team play against russia plus their goalie and radulov?


you dont know, but i bet it would have been different, you cant use that as a reason to defend the whl. picard has 18g, 20a, 38pts, 84pim in 29 games. pretty good numbers to me. i dont see what he has done to not be picked

 

[Blind Gardien]

How can u be so blind, here is not just hockey, it's also politic. The whole eastern Canada get's screw

If it was about politics, then the team would be split evenly.

Instead, it's about hockey. So naturally, hockey-oriented decisions come into play, like which players the coach is most comfortable and familiar with.

 

[HabLover]

Except if you're from the Q and your name is Dany Roussin.

What about Platt from OHL?? Don't worry Roussin isn't the only one and I guess playing with Crosby doensn't hurt? Maybe it should've helped?

 

[Mess]

You say Bernier may not find chemistry from players from the WHL. That is quite laughable. So only players from the WHL can play successfully from players from the WHL? Why is Crosby on the team then?

If anyone from the QMJHL plays a "WHL style" its Steve Bernier.

Why cant WHL fans just admit that Sutter wanted to invite "his boys"

You are really blind to the whole point yelling everything from bias to discrimination to try to make your point ..

Mine was the players invited Know each other better played together in the Russia challenge and are teammates throughout the year ..

Often teams take pairs ..

Calgary .. Getzlaf and Ladd
Brandon ..Stone and Fehr
Medicine Hat .. Clarke MacArthur & Stefan Meyer
Red Deer .. Sutter own Team ..Fraser leading scorer ..

My point was chemistry with players that play together all the time .. Is Ryan Stone going to have more chemistry with his own WHL linemate Eric Fehr or Steve Bernier in the short term,and if the team only wants one type winger like that Fehr would be the logical choice .. Stone and Fehr lead the WHL in scoring .. Why would someone want to break that up .. In fact a betting man would say that you should pencil in both or neither to the WJC team ...

That's not politics as you are making out .. that is chemistry and familiarity as I am making a point...

 

[Blind Gardien]

question for those using the whl vs russia games as an argument for the players being picked over the q players based on the q vs russia series.

what would have been the outcome of the q vs russia series if picard and crosby played and russias goalie and radulov didnt?

Of course it's hard to know for sure, but I would predict QMJHL wins, around 4-2, 5-2, 6-3, etc. But still with more open play that let the Russian side at least feel like they were in the game more, unlike the total domination that the WHL showed them. Basically, it would have been closer to the OHL outcomes, but a little more wide-open. Just a guess.

what would have been the outcome of the whl vs russia series been if you take 2 of the whl's best players out and had that team play against russia plus their goalie and radulov?

Now that's a lot easier for me to project. I think it would have made almost zero difference. You could argue between at least 8 players for the honour of "best player" from the WHL side, and then no matter how many you take away, their defense would still be absolutely rock-solid stifling, in a way that neither the Q nor O could come near matching, and in a way which would thoroughly stymie whatever additional value you think Radulov might add. On top of that, while Khudobin looked good against the Q, I don't think he's a really really top-notch goalie himself, and Kuznetsov played much better against the WHL than he did against the OHL. He was under fire and under pressure all game, in both games, and was the game star for the Russians in Game 1.

 

[HabLover]

Bolland will battle Dustin Boyd for the token second "youth" spot after Crosby up front--HOWEVER can you imagine if Canada still falls short by not scoring enough and if Perry is left off the team (because Sutter favours the Dub) or even if he puts perry on and leaves Fehr off? There would be an uproar--therefore,2 of the best pure goal scoreres(Perry and Fehr) must be on the team--BUt Ladd we know works well with Getzlaf and he's a Sutter kind of player--so if all 3 are on the team+
the Dawes Richards,Stewart line+ Crosby and Bergeron,plus Carter and Colliton,and Getzlaf--then that is 11 forwards as locks already...depending on whether they keep 13 or 14 forwards (8 or 7 D-men) then Dixon can be chopped (politically) if they take Q D-man Picard as the 7th or 8th D-man;this means only 1 of Fraser,Meyer,or Stone to make the last 4th line spot if Bolland or Boyd take the 13th spot up front (as a token youth reserve spot) OR 2 of Fraser,Meyer or Stone
make it if Sutter decides an older experienced player in that 13th spot,OR if he goes with 14 forwards and only 7 D-men. Fraser is his guy,but Meyer and Stone are better skaters and goal scorers than his own Fraser.BUT if Sutter does prefer 2 of these 3 instead of just 1 and the Bolland/Boyd "youth" spot,THEN Fraser may bounce out Meyer or Stone for the lcentre spot,and the one of the 2 goes to wing.

Probably it goes this way:

Sutter opts for 8 D-men not 7 ...meaning 13 forwards...

Dawes Richards Stewart
Fehr Crosby Bergeron
Ladd Carter Getzlaf
Perry Fraser Stone
Colliton...(or Bolland/Boyd)


Fraser has played well of late and he did help create numrous chances playing with Boyd in that ganme vs. the Russkies...Stone is better than Boyd as a finisher and Perry of course is better than Brouwer--so you would think Fraser between Perry and Stone should work even better ....This really means that IF Fraser does make the squad as the 4th line centre then the 13th man decision is between Colliton and the youth spot (probably Bolland not Boyd if Fraser is on the squad)---this is the only scenario I see for both Hawks draftees making it up front in a 13 man forward lineup--ie. all 3 of Fehr Ladd and Perry must be on the team and they decide for youth over Colliton--though he(Colliton) may be one of the best players
in terms of skating,effort,and all round play ...If it was me,I would take Colliton for his experience and tremendous skating and PK instead of keeping a "youth spot" for Bolland...But the 13th spot may also be decided by who can play centre best should one of the starting centres go down...Perry I think can move there ,so could Stone,or Fehr--so that detpth may mean no need for Bolland...However the other factor is that the WHL so dominates the total number of spots that they will put an OHL'er in the last spot if the choice is close (hence Bolland over Colliton).

AS for the 8 d-meN:

Phaneuf Weber
Coburn Seabrook
Barker Syvret
Belle Picard

Goal: Let the camp games decide between the 4 ...

You can't have 8 D-men if you have 13 forwards. If Canada takes 13 forwards like they do every year, then they will take 7 D-men like they do every year. If not, then it is 12 forwards and 8 D-men, but I don't recall them every doing that. There should be a roster limit of 22 players.

 

[Slats432]

You say Bernier may not find chemistry from players from the WHL. That is quite laughable. So only players from the WHL can play successfully from players from the WHL? Why is Crosby on the team then?

If anyone from the QMJHL plays a "WHL style" its Steve Bernier.

Why cant WHL fans just admit that Sutter wanted to invite "his boys"

I am from Edmonton. I agree.

 

[RDriesen]

Of course it's hard to know for sure, but I would predict QMJHL wins, around 4-2, 5-2, 6-3, etc. But still with more open play that let the Russian side at least feel like they were in the game more, unlike the total domination that the WHL showed them. Basically, it would have been closer to the OHL outcomes, but a little more wide-open. Just a guess.

Now that's a lot easier for me to project. I think it would have made almost zero difference. You could argue between at least 8 players for the honour of "best player" from the WHL side, and then no matter how many you take away, their defense would still be absolutely rock-solid stifling, in a way that neither the Q nor O could come near matching, and in a way which would thoroughly stymie whatever additional value you think Radulov might add. On top of that, while Khudobin looked good against the Q, I don't think he's a really really top-notch goalie himself, and Kuznetsov played much better against the WHL than he did against the OHL. He was under fire and under pressure all game, in both games, and was the game star for the Russians in Game 1.

you are right about the whl d, but we arguing about forwards who should make it, not d. my point was, if you add crosby and picard, the q looks a lot better and maybe then you would have been able to see what picard can do

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

I always find it interesting at the alarmists who scream murder every time the invitees and the team are named. A couple of things to remember...

- by in large, when Team Canada has won gold, it has kept several roll players over pure skill players. They like to have at least one checking / agitation line.

- with Sutter, he probably wants even more of this element on the team and wanted to invite a few players he absolutely knew brought it to the table. No big surprise they're players he's more familiar with. He's not exactly the kind of guy who gives a damn whether people in other provinces are happy with him.

- Bernier is big and skilled, but I wouldn't call him a "Sutter" type of player. His production has been good, not great this year and given his performance at the Summer Camp in front of Sutter, it's fair to say he needed to do a bit more to get an invitation. I'm surprised so many people are upset by his omission. I personally find the omission of Brule a bigger story.

I think the team looks great. There are a few players I wouldn't have invited, but given the top 9 forward positions are pretty much set (on the scoring lines) it shouldn't be a suprise to see more roll type players getting invited to fill out the roster. That has been a formula for success in the past.

And man, I can't get over how big the blueline might end up being - the top 6 might be as big as any in the NHL. Seriously.

 

[Blind Gardien]

you are right about the whl d, but we arguing about forwards who should make it, not d. my point was, if you add crosby and picard, the q looks a lot better and maybe then you would have been able to see what picard can do

Well, to stretch that point a bit, then, don't forget that the WHL (and the OHL to a lesser extent) did mix up their lineups in their games, while the Q did not. For example, the WHL took out who, Dawes, Meyer (Game 1 star), Colliton, MacArthur, who else? And they still dominated Game 2 just as thoroughly. That's two WJC team shoo-ins and their Game 1 MVP. (Similarly, consider the OHL without Stewart in Game 1).

Anyway, obviously Crosby and Picard would have made the Q side stronger, but don't think for a second that that makes a difference in the overall balance of the leagues, nor in the abilities of the other players they put up against Russia. Those of us who are arguing in some fashion about the dominance of the WHL are also very aware of who Crosby and Picard are, and how they would have affected the minor Can/Russia series.

 

[Red Machine]

This is how i see the lines:

1st line- Dawes-Richards-Stewart
2nd line- Bergeron-Crosby-Carter
3rd line- Ladd-Colliton-Getzlaf
4th line- Bolland-Fraser-Dixon
ex-Perry or Stone

The first line will obviously be the well known line of Dawes, Richards and Stewart. The easiest line to make up therefore, not much else i can say. I see this team having 3 number one lines and the 4th line being a energy/checking line. Crosby, Carter, and Bergeron will be dominate, as they combine for speed, skill and smarts. The 3rd line is a line that you may not agree with, but is infact what i think sutter will play around with, as he has put Colliton and Getzlaf together for both the Russia Challenge games, as well as the Summer Evaluation. They were evidently dominant in all there games. I expect that Ladd will only make the team if there is room to put him on this line. If not, expect Corey Perry to make the club. The 4th line is full of character and energy, i expect both Bolland and Colin Fraser to be on the club to add some grit to the 4th line. One question mark however, is Stephan Dixon, and if Sutter will take him once again this year, or cut him to make more room for Corey Perry.

Potential Question marks....
Will Andrew Ladd make the club, and play along side current teamate Ryan Getzlaf?
Will Stephan Dixon make the team once again, or will Sutter cut him to make room for a guy like Ryan Stone or Corey Perry who both have probobaly earned a spot, but will suffer from the numbers game?
Will there be room for Corey Perry on the top 3 lines?
Does Ryan Stone make this team? What about Clarke MacArthur, can he play a checking role?

It should be explained that Brent Sutter, has a definate plan, the top two lines seem to be filled. And it looks as though the only real concern is goaltending, and who will be on the 4th line. I would like to know how you think any one of Pouliot, Bernier or Picard could play a checking role, and become effective in that role. Obvioulsy Sutter knows that his top few lines are already set in stone, which would explain why he wanted a small camp. Why would he invite players that he already knew he was gonna cut.

The only player that i agree with, that should not be on the list, is Dustin Boyd. But the others deserve to be here, because of there character, grit and ability to play a checking role. Fraser, Bolland, Dixon, Stone, and possibly MacArthur all have the ability to be on the 4th line and effectively help this team win games.

 

[QcS]

.

Which makes for an interesting point how would Crosby's stats look if he played in the WHL against the WJC defense and Goaltending each night ??

or better yet, how would the WHL defense and goaltending look if it had to contend with someone like Crosby every night?

 

[markov`]

I am from Edmonton. I agree.

This is just ridiculous. It makes me feel bad because each and every year, I just love watching Team Canada play... but this year selections are the worst I've seen in a long time.

I would take Picard and Bernier over the following guys: Meyer, Ladd, MacArthur, Boyd, Fraser and maybe Stone. They're all from the WHL. Coincidence ?

Well it's too bad for Team Canada. They will probably win the gold anyway but their team could have been so much better.

For those who say that Sutter doesn't want the best players, but the one that are going to make the team win I agree 100%. But guys like Bernier, Picard and even Hunter would have been THAT more valuable than some other selections. I mean, Dustin Boyd... Clarke MacArthur... Colin Fraser... wow. I just can't believe it.

You can say I am a Q homer and it's true I love the Q, but the homerism Sutter is showing is just... setting new standards. I can't believe the head coach from Team Canada is being such a homer.

4 WHL goaltenders ?

Now, I need to get over it because I feel I won't be able to cheer for Canada

 

[Blind Gardien]

Which makes for an interesting point how would Crosby's stats look if he played in the WHL against the WJC defense and Goaltending each night ??

or better yet, how would the WHL defense and goaltending look if it had to contend with someone like Crosby every night?

I think Crosby is a special player who would rise to dominate any of the CHL leagues he played in. Imagine if he had somebody like Fehr on his wing instead of a fringe prospect like Roussin!

 

[markov`]

And it is clear in my mind that the politics are the main reason why there is just 3 Q guys. Look at the coaching staff... the head coach from the WHL, the two assistants from the OHL. Which league is missing?

 

[Mess]

you are right about the whl d, but we arguing about forwards who should make it, not d. my point was, if you add crosby and picard, the q looks a lot better and maybe then you would have been able to see what picard can do

Up front is where there's an incredible logjam. Think about it, there are eight players back from last year's team -- Jeff Carter, Ryan Getzlaf, Anthony Stewart, Mike Richards, Nigel Dawes, Sidney Crosby, Jeremy Colliton and Stephen Dixon. Boston Bruin Patrice Bergeron makes nine.

That leaves as few as Four to make 13 on the team ..

Picard injury likely is the reason for the ommission possibly.. Blair Mackasey said many times that the Russia challege had very little to do with the selection and year long performance was just as important than a couple of exhibition games ..

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

And it is clear in my mind that the politics are the main reason why there is just 3 Q guys. Look at the coaching staff... the head coach from the WHL, the two assistants from the OHL. Which league is missing?

So what's the conspiracy theory that explains why the WHL and OHL destroy the Q at the Entry Draft in almost every year?

 

[markov`]

So what's the conspiracy theory that explains why the WHL and OHL destroy the Q at the Entry Draft in almost every year?

Destroy? Maybe more players get picked, but not 7 times more (3 (# of Q players) x 7 = 21 (# of WHL players))

 

[gmdevils]

Well there certainly seems to be quite a bit of anger or resentment over the WHL bias in the the list. But ultimately this is Brent Sutter's team and his decision. And it will be easy to judge him on January 4th whether it was the right decision or not. Personally I like it. You know he's going to take a beating in the media for selecting mainly WHL guys if they don't bring back gold. But its the way he believes he can win, and he's going to stick with the guys he feels he can trust. And I respect the man for that.

If I had to guess on a roster now after the announcement of the selection camp roster I'd go with something like (I don't actually know the positions these guys can play, mostly guessing)

Dawes Richards Stewart
Getzlaf Carter Perry
Bergeron Crosby Fehr
Stone Colliton Fraser
Bolland

Defense
Phaneuf Weber
Coburn Seabrook
Barker Belle
Green/Syvret

Goaltending
Kevin Nastiuk
Rejean Beauchemin

I'm pretty happy with the look of that roster, except the goaltending to me seems a little questionable. Maybe a couple guys (Picard, Bernier) were slighted, but at the same time the amount of talent that is available to our team is outstanding. Personally I'm more upset that Keenan didn't give up Horton than I am about the Q guys not getting invited.

 

[markov`]

Anyway, maybe I am a Q homer, but if you can't admit that there is no bias for the WHL players, you're just stubborn.

 

[Mess]

Anyway, maybe I am a Q homer, but if you can't admit that there is no bias for the WHL players, you're just stubborn.

Wait till Sutter cuts Stephen Dixon from the team thinking he has enough returnee's and replaces him with one of his WHL boys probably his own Red Deer foward Fraser to boot .. ...

Then you are going to hear Q screaming ...

 

[Johnny]

Personally I'm more upset that Keenan didn't give up Horton than I am about the Q guys not getting invited.

Doesn't really matter now, considering he is injured again.

 

[HabLover]

And it is clear in my mind that the politics are the main reason why there is just 3 Q guys. Look at the coaching staff... the head coach from the WHL, the two assistants from the OHL. Which league is missing?

Well, there probably would have been two more OHL guys in Horton and Burns if they were made available and probably two less WHL guys. Hopefully that makes you feel a little better.