wait... driving was involved too?
I'm suddenly not as careless about this situation as I was. I know a number of college students that have been injured (and 2 that have died) due to drunk driving. It is a biggy.
Trouble at NTDP?
- Thread starter PuckFan4u
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wait... driving was involved too?
I'm suddenly not as careless about this situation as I was. I know a number of college students that have been injured (and 2 that have died) due to drunk driving. It is a biggy.
The Exiled One
Registered User
I understand the education packages, but if they were truly looking to put education first they'd take the college scholarship, as they'd be able to complete their university coursework at the same time as playing high level hockey. There's nothing wrong with your scenario, just that it obviously reflects somebody who pursued their hockey dream first and their education second.
I'm not trying to dig on the CHL as a viable option, as I'm sure you're not trying to dig on the NCAA as a viable option. I'm just saying there's no reason to play for the NTDP as a member of the USHL if you can just as easily join a team already existing in the USHL.
What interested me in that article. If he is considering his options, some further proof of how ambiguous nationality is to kids in situations like his, instead of the black and white flag-waving fans like to view it as.
only problem with that is that you cant play NCAA hockey, but for those players, the school is the backup to hockey. If you want to get an education and play hockey at the same time, non-CHL + NCAA is the only way to go. (CIS hockey is pathetic)
Ward Cornell
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Don't be fooled....
Top CIS teams are basically on par with the NCAA teams.
UWO has played and beaten Michigan in the past. (I know there have been more teams that played but I can't 100% remember who!)
While the NCAA has sent players to NHL the CIS is loaded with ex CHL players and it's actually very good hockey.
As for the CHL players and their education.....they can concentrate on hockey and high school from age 16 to 20 (as they should) then when the decide on the future after hockey they can solely concentrate on their education from 20 to 24.
Both options are viable....and not one better than the other for the players.
The Exiled One
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Ward Cornell
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20 year-olds in high school!
20 years olds in the spring semister is not unusual here.(19 years old in the fall at the start of school)
Some kids aren't sure on the university direction and need to get extra course(s) to qualify.
Do you have grade 13 like there is in Ontario?
SPORTSMANIAC
Registered User
The Exiled One
Registered User
We don't really do prep schools in Minnesota, so I don't have a comparison. We start our senior years in high school at 17 or 18 and typicailly graduate at 18. Somebody who graduates at 19 probably was held back for a specific reason that would make them less likely to pursue a college degree. If they did (for some reason) play college hockey, it would be hockey first and college second. This person should probably try to play in the CHL.
Hence the reason why any really good high school player (who wanted an education first) would likely choose the NCAA, as they're ready to start at 18. A good player might start at 19. An "above average" player might start at 20, but this isn't the type of player that would be a good fit for the CHL.
I didn't know about the 13th grade in Ontario. I think that might clear up a lot of misconceptions from both sides about timing, and why a player might choose one route over the other.
Midget programs (predominent in Michigan, California, Colorado, Texas, etc.) are inherently geared towards kids and families who put hockey first, thus making them good targets for the CHL and, consequently, the NTDP (this is where the battlelines are drawn for CHL vs. NCAA). The Minnesota HS system and the NE prep schools are inherently geared towards kids and families who put their educations first, which is why you see fewer of them go the CHL route. There are examples, of course, but I'm talking about averages.
Anyway, I'm fine with disbanding the NTDP. Spend money getting MORE kids into hockey, not making the good hockey players in it just a hair better.
Ryan Van Horne
aka Scribe
Thanks for the link. An interesting read -- and a timely one. Read on.
So you would advise the NTDP to cut ties with Cam Fowler, who was born in Windsor and holds dual citizenship?
You might have a point there. I'm sure the NTDP is a lot more interested in keeping Fowler than Maxwell. However, they might have little control over the situation.
From what I've heard, Hockey Canada has extended an invitation to Fowler to play for Canada at the world under-18 this spring.
The Exiled One
Registered User
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
Which would mean that Fowler would have to cut ties with the NTDP immediately, switch sides, and suit up for Canada in an event that the United States is hosting. Does anyone see that happening?
SPORTSMANIAC
Registered User
No I can't really see that happening but I have seen weird things...why would the US allow arguably their best player to play for the rival?
The agent is looking out for his best interest first. Don't kid yourself it's all about the payday when he signs. They like to tell you they are working for you but in truth that are working for themselves.
Believe me, i watch a lot of CIS hockey, both at mcgill and in ottawa (ravens+GGs). The level of play is lower than the CHL at most times. I'm sure the teams are capable of beating NCAA teams once in a while, but as a whole, the league is inferior.
Grade 13 (OAC) has been gone for like 5 years. High school players in the CHL tend to be 15(rare)-19 year-olds, and some stay for another year or two after that as professional hockey players only. Those that move on to school are usually those that dont make the NHL or AHL, and they usually go to CIS schools on the CHL's scholarship terms (1yr per year of play).
For a 16-17 year old hockey player, their choices are:
a) Hockey only --> play in the CHL
b) Hockey + Education
i) Hockey with education? --> Play Junior A league/USHL/HS/NTDP(for US players) and go to NCAA
ii) Hockey then education? --> Play CHL then take scholarship to go to college
players often choose B.i and then realize that hockey is what they really want to do, so they switch to CHL. Players who choose CHL cannot make the reverse decision. If they could, i'm sure there would be threads everywhere about american universities "poaching" CHL talent.
Ward Cornell
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Yes, but from I've experienced (daughters are in Year 1 at WLU and in year 4 of HS) most students who are going to college or university will usually go for year 5 in HS.
Can't you say that about any and every professional who works in an advisory and/or representative capacity for a fee? Lawyer, financial adviser, real estate agent, even physician in some contexts.
There is nothing inherent in the role of a sports agent that makes him any less likely than the other professionals to adhere to his fiduciary duty, his own financial interest notwithstanding.
with all due respect, i'm in 2nd year at mcgill right now, and almost all the students that i knew from high school in ottawa both at my school and others went to university after grade 12. The only place the majority of students continue for a 13 year is in quebec, where they do cegep for grades 12 and 13.
According to Kyle Palmieri's father, Kyle will honor his verbal commitment to the University of Notre Dame. The situation with the USNDTP has changed nothing in that regard.
No Palmieri for Storm
No Palmieri for Storm
SpItFiReZ
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A few things from this thread:
1) There are a few players who have likely used their citizenship towards the pure fact they weren't likely going to represent Canada (Except World Championships) in an international tournament. Example: Jason Pominville or Adam Deadmarsh. However, there are some who would be on Canada but chose USA...looking at Brett Hull and (if he has dual...I forget....Zach Parise)
2) The CIS is not as good as the NCAA and if it is...look at the majority or the age differences. CIS is usually guys who are older then OA in WHL, OHL and QMJHL. The NCAA, while it has alot of older guys too, relies mainly on 18, 19 year olds.
3) Having met Fowler at a recent Windsor game, he feels the Windsor team is better place for him to improve his game and make it to the next level. He wants to be a hockey player. Also, (not from him) he recieved a very nice package to come to Windsor...ala Patty Kane to LDN.
4) Some CHL teams will offer up american scholarship packages to get american players. Usually the offer is done if they sign pro or play X amount of years.
1) There are a few players who have likely used their citizenship towards the pure fact they weren't likely going to represent Canada (Except World Championships) in an international tournament. Example: Jason Pominville or Adam Deadmarsh. However, there are some who would be on Canada but chose USA...looking at Brett Hull and (if he has dual...I forget....Zach Parise)
2) The CIS is not as good as the NCAA and if it is...look at the majority or the age differences. CIS is usually guys who are older then OA in WHL, OHL and QMJHL. The NCAA, while it has alot of older guys too, relies mainly on 18, 19 year olds.
3) Having met Fowler at a recent Windsor game, he feels the Windsor team is better place for him to improve his game and make it to the next level. He wants to be a hockey player. Also, (not from him) he recieved a very nice package to come to Windsor...ala Patty Kane to LDN.
4) Some CHL teams will offer up american scholarship packages to get american players. Usually the offer is done if they sign pro or play X amount of years.
SpItFiReZ
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Also, if Fowler did play for Canada, it may not be such a bad decision. He is a top prospect and will likely be a pivotal guy for Canada in the upcoming years.
However, I don't see it happening since he left Windsor before he 3 or 4 I believe. I'm sure he looks at himself as an American and likely to represent them.
However, I don't see it happening since he left Windsor before he 3 or 4 I believe. I'm sure he looks at himself as an American and likely to represent them.
Whats he gonna say? "No were not going to Notre Dame now." Of course their not changing their commitment right now. That would be stupid. Im sure the advisor told them not to say anything different.
The Fowlers said the same thing for the last year.
He may end up going to Notre Dame, but my money is on Palmieri ending up in the OHL.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
I don't want to blow this out of proportion, but you don't see Fowler "switching sides" at this point-do you?
The past as in maybe like 30 years ago?
The last time U-M lost to UWO was December 15, 1972, during a season in which the Wolverines went 6-27-1. Their all-time record against Western Ontario is 18-7-3, but some of those losses date back to the 1920s according to their media guide.
Michigan started playing an exhibition game against a CIS team every season since 1994. The results:
2008 - Michigan 3, Waterloo 1
2007 - Michigan 5, Western Ontario 1
2006 - Michigan 10, Waterloo 2
2005 - Michigan 3, Toronto 2
2004 - Michigan 12, Windsor 1
2003 - Michigan 5, York 2
2002 - Michigan 8, Toronto 1
2001 - Michigan 9, Queens 0
2000 - Michigan 4, Wilfred Laurier 1
1999 - Michigan 6, Wilfred Laurier 2
1998 - Michigan 3, Guelph 1
1997 - Michigan 9, Toronto 2
1996 - Michigan 8, Waterloo 2
1995 - Michigan 8, Guelph 0
1994 - Michigan 8, York 0
See a pattern?
With the exception of a couple of years, the game has always been considered "the annual slaughter."
I remember reading an articale a few years back in which he stated that he was proud of his Canadian roots. I think it's a possibility but I sure hope he doesn't do it. He'd be a huge loss.
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