Injury Report: Trouba - returned from concussion 03/31

[Mortimer Snerd]

In junior he threw much bigger and more frequent hits. He definitely picks his spots now.

I think he picked his spots then too, but yes, more often. He certainly doesn't shy away from the physical game though.

 

[EastRiver]

Well- I do agree with you on a lot of aspects of what you say--and I really respect someone who has strong convictions, and sticks to their guns. I really do agree with you on "not" sacrificing your mental capacity for money--"but people will do it." I wouldn't either.

Look at driving cars -- we drove without seatbelts for 50 years, and it was just in the last 20 years, they became mandatory. Did you drive with seatbelts on 30 years ago ? I didn't. Do you drink ?- probably yes--and it causes liver cancer. ( no doubt about it) It's all about "control" and moderation here. One drink a day is OK-but 10 "is not." Everybody knows the risks, and they govern themselves accordingly.

We have to come to a point of "reasonable risk control"-- I would agree with that, and from what I see with concussion protocols--it's starting to happen. I don't think it will happen in sports like boxing or mixed martial arts ( UFC) ? So, what are we to do ?--ban these kind of sports ?? I just don't see that happening. I'm being realistic here.

As do I, I appreciate the healthy discussion we have had here today. I speak from the perspective of a health care professional who has seen a lot of concussions and know the impacts they can have on people and thus the importance of taking proper care of them. I know I have a strong opinion on the topic so I understand if not everyone agrees with it. I agree with you, there are things I do, such as drink alcohol, that cause risks, some of which I know some of which I don't, so you make a good point there. To finish I think we will see more understanding on concussions and their risks as we go on and changes in sports because of that.

 

[GNP]

As do I, I appreciate the healthy discussion we have had here today. I speak from the perspective of a health care professional who has seen a lot of concussions and know the impacts they can have on people and thus the importance of taking proper care of them. I know I have a strong opinion on the topic so I understand if not everyone agrees with it. I agree with you, there are things I do, such as drink alcohol, that cause risks, some of which I know some of which I don't, so you make a good point there. To finish I think we will see more understanding on concussions and their risks as we go on and changes in sports because of that.

_______________________________________________________

Good reply East River, and I agree--we need to make things as safe as possible, and at the same time realize there's "risk" in all elements of life--"so reason should prevail." Yes, and I agree with you--we've had a good discussion here, and agree on a lot of things. That's what I like about these forums- different people's perspectives.

 

[JetsFan815]

As per Maurice's presser Trouba has been symptom free since pretty much day 1 and is progressing along on the protocol. Ofcourse you never know with concussions there could be a setback but if things hold I think we might see him back by the Hawks game or the Leafs game next week. Should be two nice games for him to come back and get his feet back underneath him as there is likely to be minimal physicality in those 2 games.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

As per Maurice's presser Trouba has been symptom free since pretty much day 1 and is progressing along on the protocol. Ofcourse you never know with concussions there could be a setback but if things hold I think we might see him back by the Hawks game or the Leafs game next week. Should be two nice games for him to come back and get his feet back underneath him as there is likely to be minimal physicality in those 2 games.

Good news.

There was some talk earlier in this thread about a minimum time off. I thought 7 days was in the protocol but some posters said not - and pasted the protocol for proof. Is there some other rule that applies (other than the quoted one)? Does anyone know for certain?

I have heard somewhere that it isn't uncommon for symptoms to appear 3-4 days after the incident. If that is correct then is 5 days symptom free considered safe? The 7 days would be that plus a couple of days for a safety margin.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Good news.

There was some talk earlier in this thread about a minimum time off. I thought 7 days was in the protocol but some posters said not - and pasted the protocol for proof. Is there some other rule that applies (other than the quoted one)? Does anyone know for certain?

I have heard somewhere that it isn't uncommon for symptoms to appear 3-4 days after the incident. If that is correct then is 5 days symptom free considered safe? The 7 days would be that plus a couple of days for a safety margin.

To run through the entire protocol takes 7 days minimum. Once symptoms go away, it generally involves slowly increasing physical activity (riding a bike) and monitoring for symptom return. If symptoms show up at any point you go back to the beginning and start over again. Eventually skating alone gets introduced, and then non contact practice leading to full contact practice.

There's no skipping a step.

Maurice said Trouba "could begin skating in a couple days" if you assume that means "skating alone" then he could be in a non contact jersey as early as three days from now and he could graduate to regular jersey at the Jets next practice after that (assuming there will be one on Monday)

*None of this is official but rather a collection of all the things Maurice has let slip over the years regarding how the Jets deal with concussion injuries to the best of my memory*

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

To run through the entire protocol takes 7 days minimum. Once symptoms go away, it generally involves slowly increasing physical activity (riding a bike) and monitoring for symptom return. If symptoms show up at any point you go back to the beginning and start over again. Eventually skating alone gets introduced, and then non contact practice leading to full contact practice.

There's no skipping a step.

Maurice said Trouba "could begin skating in a couple days" if you assume that means "skating alone" then he could be in a non contact jersey as early as three days from now and he could graduate to regular jersey at the Jets next practice after that (assuming there will be one on Monday)

*None of this is official but rather a collection of all the things Maurice has let slip over the years regarding how the Jets deal with concussion injuries to the best of my memory*

That's how I remembered it, but some posters did quote from a written protocol that didn't have any defined minimum time period. Thus the uncertainty.

 

[Aavco Cup]

That's how I remembered it, but some posters did quote from a written protocol that didn't have any defined minimum time period. Thus the uncertainty.

There is uncertainty because it coukd take much longer but I heard Maurice say once that they don't skip a step. Trouba isn't skating yet. He still needs to get through theses steps

Skate
Non contact practice
Full contact practice

That's at least 4-5 days from now. There's no jumping the gun and making it less.

 

[ps241]

There is uncertainty because it coukd take much longer but I heard Maurice say once that they don't skip a step. Trouba isn't skating yet. He still needs to get through theses steps

Skate
Non contact practice
Full contact practice

That's at least 4-5 days from now. There's no jumping the gun and making it less.

Yea especially considering we are playing in rich man’s garbage time now too.

 

[SM17]

That's how I remembered it, but some posters did quote from a written protocol that didn't have any defined minimum time period. Thus the uncertainty.

So I was very curious because everyone was speaking of this 7 day rule. The protocol NHL uses as a guideline is the Zurich II Consensus Statement. It involves a graded progression in physical activity through 6 stages. The statement recommends a minimum time frame of 24 hours before progressing to the next step so that the minimum time it would take to complete the protocol is 7 days. However both the Zurich statement and the NHL protocol stop short of mandating that minimum time frame. Most teams however have come to realize the dangers with concussions, so I think we will see a lot more teams follow that minimum time frame of 7 days. But come playoff time, when games really count, I wouldn't be surprised to see players come back quicker if they are 100%.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

There is uncertainty because it coukd take much longer but I heard Maurice say once that they don't skip a step. Trouba isn't skating yet. He still needs to get through theses steps

Skate
Non contact practice
Full contact practice

That's at least 4-5 days from now. There's no jumping the gun and making it less.

That's not the uncertainty I am talking about. The conversation yesterday was about the question of whether or not there is a mandatory minimum time once the concussion diagnosis is made. Does the clock start from the injury, or from the diagnosis?

My memory was about the same as the process you described and takes at least 7 days. The written protocol that was quoted did not mention a minimum time. I don't remember it precisely now. It is possible that it laid out a process that can't be completed in less than 7 days. I didn't think it was that clear.

My question remains unanswered. Is the 7 days a mandated minimum or is it simply typical of the process?

The question is not about an estimate of how long Trouba will be out. It is, did anyone find out conclusively if 7 days is a mandatory minimum?

I know that the maximum time is open ended. There is no uncertainty about that. It will take as long as it takes.

Is it possible that some player, some time, could possibly do it in 6? Or is that prohibited either specifically, or by the process as laid out in the protocol?

 

[Aavco Cup]

That's not the uncertainty I am talking about. The conversation yesterday was about the question of whether or not there is a mandatory minimum time once the concussion diagnosis is made. Does the clock start from the injury, or from the diagnosis?

My memory was about the same as the process you described and takes at least 7 days. The written protocol that was quoted did not mention a minimum time. I don't remember it precisely now. It is possible that it laid out a process that can't be completed in less than 7 days. I didn't think it was that clear.

My question remains unanswered. Is the 7 days a mandated minimum or is it simply typical of the process?

The question is not about an estimate of how long Trouba will be out. It is, did anyone find out conclusively if 7 days is a mandatory minimum?

I know that the maximum time is open ended. There is no uncertainty about that. It will take as long as it takes.

Is it possible that some player, some time, could possibly do it in 6? Or is that prohibited either specifically, or by the process as laid out in the protocol?

I said it a few times. The NHL has a protocol. It is understood to be a minimum of 7 days once you enter the protocol. Maurice has said more than once there is no jumping steps. Why would he lie?

They have not published the protocol for public consumption but there has been enough anecdotal references to it from this team and others around the league that I don't know why it is in question.

Just accept it

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I said it a few times. The NHL has a protocol. It is understood to be a minimum of 7 days once you enter the protocol. Maurice has said more than once there is no jumping steps. Why would he lie?

They have not published the protocol for public consumption but there has been enough anecdotal references to it from this team and others around the league that I don't know why it is in question.

Just accept it

I'm not asking about jumping steps. Repeating that and referring to steps that may, or may not have some flexibility in timing does not answer my question.

The bolded may be the answer to my question. Something was quoted, cut and pasted, in the conversation on this topic yesterday. If the bolded is correct then that was not the protocol in question. If it was then the bolded is incorrect. If the bolded is correct then the correct answer to my question is that it is not known conclusively to the public.

 

[Aavco Cup]

I'm not asking about jumping steps. Repeating that and referring to steps that may, or may not have some flexibility in timing does not answer my question.

The bolded may be the answer to my question. Something was quoted, cut and pasted, in the conversation on this topic yesterday. If the bolded is correct then that was not the protocol in question. If it was then the bolded is incorrect. If the bolded is correct then the correct answer to my question is that it is not known conclusively to the public.

If you do the math and add up all the steps to get cleared it coincides perfectly with the seven day minimum timeline Maurice once gave. Why is it important anyway?

 

[Ducky10]

I think the last page and a half of this thread has given me a concussion. S0 if he skates and doesn't suffer symptoms, practices no contact without symptoms and practices full contact without any symptoms, he's good to go whenever the Jets want to put him back in. If at any point he has a setback, the whole process starts all over again. The rest is semantics.

Hope he stays feeling good.

 

[EastRiver]

Good news.

There was some talk earlier in this thread about a minimum time off. I thought 7 days was in the protocol but some posters said not - and pasted the protocol for proof. Is there some other rule that applies (other than the quoted one)? Does anyone know for certain?

I have heard somewhere that it isn't uncommon for symptoms to appear 3-4 days after the incident. If that is correct then is 5 days symptom free considered safe? The 7 days would be that plus a couple of days for a safety margin.

My understanding of the concussion protocol is that there are seven stages, each of which require one day to complete, before progression to the next stage. When I have used it I have taken one day to complete each step from the day the concussion occurred, usually the concussion is diagnosed the day it is sustained but I don't think it matters when it starts. In saying that I know there have been NHL players who have returned to play from concussions in less than 7 days (see: Sidney Crosby in the playoffs last year). So I don't know if they didn't follow the protocol of if they combined stages. I think I answered your questions the best I could but I could try again if there still some confusion. I have some experience using the concussion protocol.

 

[10Ducky10]

The Athletic has an article on Trouba's value to the Jets.
Easy to see he is a 1D in this league.
It could easily be argued that he is our most important part of the team. Morrissey is a great D man and arguably a 1D but he doesn't have the physical presence of Trouba in front of the net. I'd offer him 43 over 6 years but I think he signs for 5 years. Be nice to get him for 8 years though.
5 x 6.875m is my guess.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If you do the math and add up all the steps to get cleared it coincides perfectly with the seven day minimum timeline Maurice once gave. Why is it important anyway?

I just asked a simple question. Is it written in stone somewhere? Does anybody know for certain? That's all. If you don't know the answer, you don't need to respond. If no one knows, that is an answer.

 

[Aavco Cup]

I just asked a simple question. Is it written in stone somewhere? Does anybody know for certain? That's all. If you don't know the answer, you don't need to respond. If no one knows, that is an answer.

It is written in stone. The NHL has a protocol that all teams adhere to. I have heard this referenced numerous times around the league. It started after the player lawsuit.

Just because you can't read exactly what it says doesn't mean that it doesn't exist

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It is written in stone. The NHL has a protocol that all teams adhere to. I have heard this referenced numerous times around the league. It started after the player lawsuit.

Just because you can't read exactly what it says doesn't mean that it doesn't exist

Where did I say it doesn't exist? The answer that I have gotten from you is that it isn't known. We all know there is a protocol. We all know that it specifies stages that have to be followed. I never asked if there was a protocol. I never asked if it specified steps to be followed. I asked if it specified 7 days. Simple. It is a little question. It is a straightforward question. It is a curiosity in passing question. You, apparently don't know the answer to that question. Yet you keep trying to answer it.

From others I have gotten that there is some flex in the timing. It is not written in stone, though it is going to take about 7 days to complete the steps.

 

[Aavco Cup]

^Maurice said they don't skip steps.

Not sure how it can be any less than 7 days if you add up the steps. But sure if you want to believe it go ahead

 

[EastRiver]

Yes it is known that the NHL follows the concussion protocol, what is not known is how long it takes to get through the protocol. When I have used it it has taken 7 days, one day per stage, to get through the whole protocol. However last year in the playoffs Sidney Crosby returned from his concussion in less than 7 days. While that is an example from Pittsburgh and not Winnipeg, I would imagine that Pittsburgh must follow the same steps that Winnipeg does, and they are both in the NHL.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Yes it is known that the NHL follows the concussion protocol, what is not known is how long it takes to get through the protocol. When I have used it it has taken 7 days, one day per stage, to get through the whole protocol. However last year in the playoffs Sidney Crosby returned from his concussion in less than 7 days. While that is an example from Pittsburgh and not Winnipeg, I would imagine that Pittsburgh must follow the same steps that Winnipeg does, and they are both in the NHL.

Did Crosby actually enter concussion protocol?

 

[EastRiver]

Did Crosby actually enter concussion protocol?

Sidney Crosby has concussion, will miss Game 4 vs. Capitals | CBC Sports He had a concussion so he should have. Unless you can have a concussion and not enter the concussion protocol, which I think defeats the purpose of having the protocol.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Sidney Crosby has concussion, will miss Game 4 vs. Capitals | CBC Sports He had a concussion so he should have. Unless you can have a concussion and not enter the concussion protocol, which I think defeats the purpose of having the protocol.

I don’t know what’s going on there and TBH does it really matter? Trouba doesn’t play for the Penguins and it’s pretty clear from what Maurice said that Trouba will not be back in less than 7 days