Trotz thinks Kariya should get stronger look for Team Canada.

[RingWraith]

I would very much like to slap upside the head the entire staff organizing Team Canada for just how much they have ignored a guaranteed international performer like Paul Kariya. The man was BORN for high level international hockey. This is where he plays his best. And he always does. I will never forget the chemistry the guy had in Salt Lake clicking with Lemieux and Sakic and the like. Leaving him off the roster is going to be a big mistake.

The Canadian Olympic team at Turin is going to be full of trendy picks, highly inexperienced picks, and risky picks. I am beginning to get a bad feeling concerning our team's performance at these upcoming games. I really don't like where things are going.

 

[Jazz]

He'd look good if we had to go to a shootout...I think he is 3/3 this year...

 

[RingWraith]

Just one more reason he should be on the team. He's one of the best at the shootout in the World.

 

[therealdeal]

So you think Kariya shouldn't make the team. Fine. But who is it you suggest go instead?

And if you are going to say Crosby, Spezza, Staal, or Nash, then look at my posts earlier in the thread to see why Kariya should be on the team before any of those guys.

I don't have my roster here right now, but I know for sure he's not on my list.

If he's one of our guys, we're in big, big trouble.

Hell, if we're going to take a player from nashville, it oughta be Sullivan, he can play both wings, he's getting a point per game despite injury troubles, and he's even on the season. By the way, you're star Kayria had another stellar night last night, 0 points, -3, hurrah!

 

[therealdeal]

The Canadian Olympic team at Turin is going to be full of trendy picks, highly inexperienced picks, and risky picks. I am beginning to get a bad feeling concerning our team's performance at these upcoming games. I really don't like where things are going.

What players are you talking about? What players would you suggest taking over them?

And by trendy do you mean the best right now? Would you prefer if we picked the best players in 1999, like Lindross, he's experienced!

 

[Canuck21t]

I don't think he has much of a chance. Shanny will make it before he does.

No way Shanahan should be considered. He's TOO old and he sucks on the big ice surface.

 

[wildone26*]

No way Shanahan should be considered. He's TOO old and he sucks on the big ice surface.

Have you seen him play lately?

 

[Seph]

I can see Trotz' comments, and Kariya should be a candidate. But on the other hand, Gretzky isn't trying to make a team of the best Canadian players, he's making the best team of Canadian players. There's a difference, and while I still think Kariya would be a fine choice, I can understand Gretzky's reasoning.

 

[joe_shannon_1983*]

I can see Trotz' comments, and Kariya should be a candidate. But on the other hand, Gretzky isn't trying to make a team of the best Canadian players, he's making the best team of Canadian players. There's a difference, and while I still think Kariya would be a fine choice, I can understand Gretzky's reasoning.

In regards to what I bolded in your original quote....

It is for this exact reason that Kariya should be on the team. He would make the team better.

There have been some better players this season than Kariya (Spezza, Staal, and maybe even Crosby). But none of them would make the team as good as Kariya would.

Positives of Kariya compared to the three youngsters:

- He plays the wing: This is significant, considering Canada is loaded with centres already (Sakic, Richards, Lecavalier, Thornton, Draper)
- He is more experienced: He knows how to play in high-level pressure games, and knows how to be successful in these games
- He is a better leader: Kariya has captained a team to the Stanley Cup Finals before. He is leading the Predators to their best season (he is perhaps the main reason the Predators have gone from 8th to potentially 1st in the conference).
- He is more suited to a 3rd or 4th line role: He is very effective even when not scoring, due to his very under-rated defensive play and strong penalty killing.
- He is more versatile: This combines the fact that he can play all three forward positions, as well as play in many different roles.
- He is a superior shoot-out specialist: Kariya has probably been the best shoot-out shooter in the NHL this year, which is very significant considering the fact that an Olympic game might end up being decided by a shoot-out.

The only thing that the three youngsters have their in favour is point-production, which is probably redundant considering that Canada already has enough point-producing scoring-line centres.

If Gretzky is trying to build a strong team, Kariya is a very good fit. A much stronger fit than any of the "trendy picks" that is for sure.

 

[Seph]

If any of those three youngsters make it over Kariya it will obviously be a move made with an eye on the future and getting them experience early so they will can grow into leadership roles on the team.

However, my comment was more meant to imply that Kariya is likely not being considered because team Canada has enough scorers. And while Kariya does bring other things to the ice, there are other people better suited to a bottom six winger role. Even though Kariya may be a better player than them, it does not mean he would make the team better.

 

[wildone26*]

I have seen Crosby and Spezza play enough to believe neither would be suited to a 3rd or 4th line winger role, no way. Staal is the only one of the youngsters who might do a sufficient job at that. Spezza or Crosby need to be a top 2 line player and neither would be good enough to be on the first 2 lines right now. Kariya would fit into a 3rd or 4th line role beautifully, even though it is not what he used to do on Team Canadas, or where he is in Nashville, he plays the type of game far more condusive to that role than either Spezza or Crosby.

 

[steafo]

Ok lets get off of the Kariya topic for a second...WHY THE HELL SHOULD DRAPER MAKE IT?!?! I understand he's a grinder or whatever, but he has played absolutely horrid this year. He's -6 and has a whopping 4 points. And don't give me that bs of how he's a penalty killer and he doesnt get top line minutes. I am from Detroit, and have the displeasure of watching him screw up countless chances per night. I'm not even exaggerating on that either ARGH.

 

[arrbez]

Ok lets get off of the Kariya topic for a second...WHY THE HELL SHOULD DRAPER MAKE IT?!?! I understand he's a grinder or whatever, but he has played absolutely horrid this year. He's -6 and has a whopping 4 points. And don't give me that bs of how he's a penalty killer and he doesnt get top line minutes. I am from Detroit, and have the displeasure of watching him screw up countless chances per night. I'm not even exaggerating on that either ARGH.

I can't see Draper making it. Especially since more skilled players like Thornton and Doan proved they could do the same job at the WC's.

 

[Transported Upstater]

I do not think Draper deserves to be there. His role could be filled by other, more talented players.

If I'm building an NHL team, I want a guy like Draper there every time, however.

 

[PunjabiOil*]

Kariya is -8, a team low.

Just some food for thought

 

[nomorekids]

Kariya is -8, a team low.

Just some food for thought

As usual, plus minus is a misleading stat, though. There are those on the team that are weak defensively(Martin Erat, Yanic Perreault) but Kariya isn't one of them. He plays a fair amount of penalty kill time, actually. Sometimes, plus\minus is just a case of being in the right or wrong place at the right or wrong time.

 

[RangersFan88*]

Have the team be something like this:

Gagne - Sakic - Iginla
Kariya - Richards - Heatley
Smyth - Lecavalier - Doan
Bertuzzi - Thornton - St.Louis
Draper

cut bertz ,st.louis and doan
put in spezza, crosby and savard

there is nothing wrong with youth in a big tournament
oveshkin was playing spectacular at the WC in austria ,
come on
give the boyz the spots

 

[therealdeal]

As usual, plus minus is a misleading stat, though. There are those on the team that are weak defensively(Martin Erat, Yanic Perreault) but Kariya isn't one of them. He plays a fair amount of penalty kill time, actually. Sometimes, plus\minus is just a case of being in the right or wrong place at the right or wrong time.

Penalty kill time doesn't matter, he's on for a ton of 5-5 goals against, the worst on his team, a team that only has what, 6 losses? And he's not even getting a point a game, this isn't the same Kariya from the 2001-2002 season, he's just not effective anymore.

 

[therealdeal]

In regards to what I bolded in your original quote....

It is for this exact reason that Kariya should be on the team. He would make the team better.

There have been some better players this season than Kariya (Spezza, Staal, and maybe even Crosby). But none of them would make the team as good as Kariya would.

Positives of Kariya compared to the three youngsters:

- He plays the wing: This is significant, considering Canada is loaded with centres already (Sakic, Richards, Lecavalier, Thornton, Draper)
- He is more experienced: He knows how to play in high-level pressure games, and knows how to be successful in these games
- He is a better leader: Kariya has captained a team to the Stanley Cup Finals before. He is leading the Predators to their best season (he is perhaps the main reason the Predators have gone from 8th to potentially 1st in the conference).
- He is more suited to a 3rd or 4th line role: He is very effective even when not scoring, due to his very under-rated defensive play and strong penalty killing.
- He is more versatile: This combines the fact that he can play all three forward positions, as well as play in many different roles.
- He is a superior shoot-out specialist: Kariya has probably been the best shoot-out shooter in the NHL this year, which is very significant considering the fact that an Olympic game might end up being decided by a shoot-out.

The only thing that the three youngsters have their in favour is point-production, which is probably redundant considering that Canada already has enough point-producing scoring-line centres.

If Gretzky is trying to build a strong team, Kariya is a very good fit. A much stronger fit than any of the "trendy picks" that is for sure.

-The shoot-out stats don't matter, you can't pick a guy just because he's good at shootouts.
-Lots of guys can move from wing to center, thats not a big deal
-If he's so defensively responsible, how come he's the worst plus/minus on his team?
-Kariya has led his team to nothing, they rode a hot goaltender once to the cup finals, where he wasn't even getting a point a game in the playoffs, what have the ducks done otherwise?
-Again, he's only played in one pressure game, the Olympics, where he scored one goal because of a nice play by Mario, he won't have Mario again.
-This is the only thing that he has going for him, he plays the wing where Canada is relatively weak. If you were to move one or two centers to the wing though, there is no way Kariya should make the team

Spezza is one of the leagues leading plus minus this year, and he was last year, 2nd on the Sens, Staal is a sniper and is leading a team that nobody though would do anything, and I agree Crosby probably shouldn't be on the team.

 

[nomorekids]

Penalty kill time doesn't matter, he's on for a ton of 5-5 goals against, the worst on his team, a team that only has what, 6 losses? And he's not even getting a point a game, this isn't the same Kariya from the 2001-2002 season, he's just not effective anymore.

One of the lowest scoring 5 on 5 teams in the league, with one of the lowest goal differentials of all playoff teams.

It's not your place to say whether he's "effective" or not. He's been the best player on one of the best teams in the league.

 

[Sammy*]

One of the lowest scoring 5 on 5 teams in the league, with one of the lowest goal differentials of all playoff teams.

True, but Kariya shares a signifigant part of the blame for that.

 

[therealdeal]

One of the lowest scoring 5 on 5 teams in the league, with one of the lowest goal differentials of all playoff teams.

It's not your place to say whether he's "effective" or not. He's been the best player on one of the best teams in the league.

So, he's a liability 5-5 where he gets scored on and doesn't score, and he won't ever make the power-play or penalty-kill for Canada, so what situation would you have him in?

 

[Gnashville]

Yeah in the past Kariya had a really hard time making Canadian teams when he was playing in Anaheim. And Anaheim is much further north of Nashville.

Yeah if where you play really doesn't matter.
Why is this guy being considered

GP G A P +/- PIM S
32 7 9 16 2 19 92

And this one isn't even getting a sniff
GP G A P +/- PIM S
30 2 13 15 -2 20 38

 

[espo*]

So, he's a liability 5-5 where he gets scored on and doesn't score, and he won't ever make the power-play or penalty-kill for Canada, so what situation would you have him in?

We can't be sure he would'nt get on the power play.If the PP ain't clicking but Kariya is heating it up on his shifts on the big ice.......................he may end up on it.No-one knows how the tourney will go in terms of who's hot and chemistry among players.Just because Heatley has 20 goals this year does'nt mean he'll even get one come Torino.

 

[futurcorerock]

Rick Nash deserves to be on the bubble, or better yet, not even on the team.

Kariya's worst season is equal PPG wise to Nash's best season. Plus, Kariya has proven that he is a winner and a leader, unlike Nash. In addition, Kariya is ten times more the two-way player that Nash is. To top it off, while Nash has been sitting at home all season with an injury, Kariya has been leading the Nashville Predators to their best season and to the near the top of the Western Conference.

Nash, at this point in time, shouldn't even be considered for Team Canada.

Nash is on the bubble because he's on the rise.

Did Nash not play for the silver medal-winning Canada roster at the World Championships, easily becoming the tournament's most dangerous offensive threats?

Oh thats right, * for Kariya