Trottier vs Yzerman vs Sakic

[Johnny Tomala]

Sakic
Yzerman
Trottier

 

[Big Phil]

In their primes, it is pretty close. Not really a bad choice one way or another. Yzerman in 1989, Trottier in 1979 or even a year like 1982. Sakic in 1996 or 2001. There is no wrong answer here. Maybe, just maybe someone like Trottier brings the most to the table at his best. There used to be an understanding that Trottier was the most complete and all around best player to ever lace them up. Not that he was the most dominant, but I think it was just because he didn't really have a weakness and could beat you in so many ways.

As for the career it gets a little clearer. Trottier started declining in his early 30s in a way that Yzerman and Sakic did not. So if we are looking at career value here I think Trottier is 3rd. Yzerman and Sakic fight it out for #1. Probably Sakic if we had to pick, but again both have the wicked career value. Hard to choose.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

It brought back some unfavorable memories

Agreed

Disgraceful video

A dog playing basketball, c'mon now

 

[jigglysquishy]

Out of curiosity this is how they votes went in the Top 100

Sakic-Trottier-Yzerman - 12
Sakic-Yzerman-Trottier - 4
Trottier-Sakic-Yzerman - 10
Trottier-Yzerman-Sakic - 1
Yzerman-Sakic-Trottier - 1
Yzerman-Trottier-Sakic - 1

It only adds up to 29 instead of 32 so I obviously screwed up adding somewhere.

But about 75% of lists had Yzerman third.

 

[psycat]

You could throw Messier, Clarke, or even Mikita into this discussion.

Or, dare I say it?, Crosby. That's the tier of players he belongs to in my mind.

He might very well be on the top of that tier though but on a per game(or even seasonal) basis I don't see much(if any) difference.

 

[Albatros]

I still don't get how Trottier of all people became a Rangers coach.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yzerman
Sakic
Trottier

Even on one leg from 2000 to 2002 Yzerman was close to a point per game.

Also his offensive numbers dipped in part because of his age/injuries, a little from playing more defensively, but also because of Detroit’s depth. Their 3rd line center was Igor Larionov and their 4th line center was an eventual Selke winner in Draper.

The Wings were almost always near the top offensively in the league but rarely had a top 10 scorer from 1997 to 2009. They were very deep.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

1. Sakic
2. Trottier
3. Yzerman

Sakic easily beats the other 2 in longevity as an elite player, and (by a smaller margin) has the best playoff record as well.

Sakic and Trottier over Yzerman because they were both at their offensive and defensive bests at the same time.

 

[The Panther]

Sakic easily beats the other 2 in longevity as an elite player, and (by a smaller margin) has the best playoff record as well.

I'm not sure sure about that. Remember, Yzerman was drafted and started playing at an All-Star level in 1983 -- five years before Sakic.

 

[daver]

I'm not sure sure about that. Remember, Yzerman was drafted and started playing at an All-Star level in 1983 -- five years before Sakic.

Yzerman's first season as his team's leading scorer and Top 20 in scoring was in 86/87 in his 4th season at age 21. He was the clear 3rd best offensive player in the league behind Wayne and Mario in the 86/87 stretch to 92/93, and was still elite in 93/94 despite taking a backseat to Federov that year. From then on, he is more of an elite 2-way player as opposed to an elite offensive one until 02/03.

Sakic's first season as his as his team's leading scorer and Top 20 in scoring was in 89/90 in his 2nd season at age 20. He was a Top 5/10 scorer for the next five seasons before moving up to Top 3 from 95/96 to 00/01 then drops back to Top 5/10 from 00/01 to 03/04. You can argue that he was still an elite player into 06/07 when 2-way play is factored in with a Top 10 scoring finish.

Sakic clearly had more longevity as an elite offensive player but Yzerman can claim the higher peak.

 

[JackSlater]

I'd go Yzerman - Trottier - Sakic. Would not expect many to agree. It's all reasonably close though.

 

[daver]

Trottier, solely for his line at the 0.53 second mark:

 

[NordiquesForeva]

I'd go Yzerman - Trottier - Sakic. Would not expect many to agree. It's all reasonably close though.

I agree with this. I find Yzerman to be underrated on this particular board.

 

[LightningStorm]

For the Yzerman/Sakic debate, Sakic did have more great seasons, but at times his superior longevity makes it seem like the gap in elite seasons was bigger than it was. Sakic did have more, but they were scattered out throughout his career, while Yzerman's were all concentrated in the late 80's/early 90's. That's what I meant in my OP when I said the other 2 had a more consistent prime than Sakic.

I also wonder if, on a subconscious level, people who give Sakic the edge also inadvertently give too much weight to how good Yzerman and Sakic were from 1996-2002 (the height of the Wings/Avs rivalry) when comparing them as players. This is a big reason why they are compared after all. Obviously, if we are strictly going off those years, Sakic wins in a landslide.

 

[LightningStorm]

In their primes, it is pretty close. Not really a bad choice one way or another. Yzerman in 1989, Trottier in 1979 or even a year like 1982. Sakic in 1996 or 2001. There is no wrong answer here. Maybe, just maybe someone like Trottier brings the most to the table at his best. There used to be an understanding that Trottier was the most complete and all around best player to ever lace them up. Not that he was the most dominant, but I think it was just because he didn't really have a weakness and could beat you in so many ways.

As for the career it gets a little clearer. Trottier started declining in his early 30s in a way that Yzerman and Sakic did not. So if we are looking at career value here I think Trottier is 3rd. Yzerman and Sakic fight it out for #1. Probably Sakic if we had to pick, but again both have the wicked career value. Hard to choose.

For the bolded about their careers, do you think, as I said in my OP, that Trottier (and all Isles dynasty stars) playing all that extra hockey and having short offseasons is a mitigating factor in their lack of longevity? Trottier is still last in longevity of these 3, but I do want to make sure he doesn't get punished too much for being a major part of his team winning a big 4 pro sports record 19 consecutive playoff series.

 

[Boxscore]

This is as tough as it gets imho. The gap between 1-3 is almost nil. Personal preference...

1. Trottier
2. Stevie
3. Sakic

Trottier was a monster. No flaws in his game and he could go to war physically with anyone.

 

[Dingo]

Or, dare I say it?, Crosby. That's the tier of players he belongs to in my mind.

He might very well be on the top of that tier though but on a per game(or even seasonal) basis I don't see much(if any) difference.

I agree

and Forsberg, as long as you, like me, don’t care about duration

pretty much a list of all my favourite centres.

 

[Boxscore]

I agree

and Forsberg, as long as you, like me, don’t care about duration

pretty much a list of all my favourite centres.

Agreed. Sid and Forsberg in that tier as well. Like you said -- Forsberg without duration.

 

[BraveCanadian]

It doesn't look "as good" statistically as the other two because it was the DPE but from 2000-2004 Sakic made 3/4 first AST's, had his hue 2001 season, was 3rd in total points, point finishes of 2,5,2, assist finishes of 5,3,4 and goal finishes of 2, 10.

In 2003 he missed just over 1/4 of the season otherwise he'd likely be 1st in points over that span, would've added more top 10 finishes and possibly another AST.

That was also one of the weakest periods in the NHL in a long time. Sakic didn't suddenly find another gear so much as the rest of the competition got old, retired, or was hurt.

Peak play it is super close but Trottier >= Yzerman > Sakic

Career it is exactly the opposite due to longevity: Sakic > Yzerman > Trottier.

 

[The Panther]

For the Yzerman/Sakic debate, Sakic did have more great seasons, but at times his superior longevity makes it seem like the gap in elite seasons was bigger than it was. Sakic did have more, but they were scattered out throughout his career, while Yzerman's were all concentrated in the late 80's/early 90's. That's what I meant in my OP when I said the other 2 had a more consistent prime than Sakic.

Sort of, yes. But Yzerman won the Selke and was 1st-team All Star in 2000, two things he never did in the late-80s / early-90s.

Yzerman had a bit of a scoring dip in 1997-98, but otherwise his (seemingly lower scoring) 1995-96 to 1999-00 five seasons are all very impressive for his age and mileage. They're pretty similar, offensively, to Sakic's post-2001 seasons.

I agree with you there are probably a lot of fans ranking Yzerman according to his latter half than his younger half, though.

 

[Big Phil]

For the bolded about their careers, do you think, as I said in my OP, that Trottier (and all Isles dynasty stars) playing all that extra hockey and having short offseasons is a mitigating factor in their lack of longevity? Trottier is still last in longevity of these 3, but I do want to make sure he doesn't get punished too much for being a major part of his team winning a big 4 pro sports record 19 consecutive playoff series.

That could be. Now, Sakic and Yzerman also had a lot of deep runs in the playoffs and titles to their names. It didn't happen at the consecutive level of Trottier of course, and much of it was when they were in their 30s. But yeah I think there was some wear and tear because of it. Bossy played only until 30. Potvin played until 1988, but he really wasn't all that old when he retired. Maybe the short summers were a factor. Throw in the Canada Cups too. That's some short breaks. I don't doubt he does it all again though. And it wasn't as if Trottier still wasn't around for two more Cups in Pittsburgh that he contributed for. Not offensively so much, but defensively and a leadership type role.