Player Discussion Trevor Zegras : Part III

[zegrassyknoll]

I think Zegras had 0 confidence earlier this season which led to him not producing at all.

Now I think he's got too much confidence that is leading him to play a little too casually - thinking he's got too much time when he doesn't, thinking a play will work when it won't, etc. It was something that I noticed about LaCombe last year, actually.

I think as he gets more consistent playing (the guy hasn't played a full season in what, 3 years?) it will balance out and he will find a good level. IMO his realistic ceiling is like a 60-70 point, fun 2nd liner.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Didn't Z miss a day's practice due to illness before this game? He could still be a bit under the weather as it relates to last night.

 

[70sSanO]

Well I hope Zegras figures it out as I would like him here. I think he brings a dynamic that is beyond a lot of his contemporaries.

I just don’t want him to develop into an upgraded Sonny Milano.

John

 

[Rybread86]

I have it figured out. He's not a winger. It's been tried for at least two years and outside of a stretch or two of decent games, it hasn't worked. Every time he has been moved back to center he's looked like the Zegras we all expect. It's so painfully obvious I just can't wrap my head around why they are forcing him to play wing.

I just don't see Zegras on this team long term because of that. He's been forced into a position that isn't working, and that he doesn't like. Unless Verbeek builds a third scoring line (which I doubt because we would have seen it already) then where does he fit?

I wish they would at least try Zegras at center and McT at wing.

Mac is better at pretty much everything right now and turning into a good center. Why would they adjust Macs game when hes starting to break out? Not the time to mess with McT

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Mac is better at pretty much everything right now and turning into a good center. Why would they adjust Macs game when hes starting to break out? Not the time to mess with McT

Unless they jump up in the lottery to #2 pick and select Misa I don't see McTavish ever moving to the Wing.

 

[robbieboy3686]

Unless they jump up in the lottery to #2 pick and select Misa I don't see McTavish ever moving to the Wing.

Mac is exactly what we need in a center behind Leo. And he’s still developing. Zegras, however. Who knows man. If I was Zegras and his agent, I would demand to play center or be traded. If verbeek really planned to trade Zegras 1. You would think He would’ve already returned him to center where he will put up more points and show interested teams he’s truly a center 2. If Zegras starts at the wing next seaosn. Then maybe he truly is signing with the ducks long term

 

[SmokeyDuck]

Yall are overthinking the Zegras shit. Just let him play.

 

[FiveTacos]

I've been on the Zegras at C bandwagon. But worth noting now that in his last 20 games he's got 15 points, which puts him on his usual 60+ point pace. Perhaps he's finally figured out how to be comfortable at LW?

If so, and we have ourselves a 60-70 point winger who can slide over to C on a scoring line when needed, I'm fine with that.

 

[Bender66]

Yep. As long as he is the one carrying the puck on the rushes and making the plays, don't really care where they line him up. He sucks at faceoffs anyway so having him LW with Mac at C is fine with me, as long as they are generating scoring chances.

 

[Leonardo87]

I've been on the Zegras at C bandwagon. But worth noting now that in his last 20 games he's got 15 points, which puts him on his usual 60+ point pace. Perhaps he's finally figured out how to be comfortable at LW?

If so, and we have ourselves a 60-70 point winger who can slide over to C on a scoring line when needed, I'm fine with that.

I don't see Zegras being a C in Anaheim and that's fine. Leo and Mac have already raised their games, winning more FO's and Leo especially showing his defensive play.

The only way I see it is if he is at 3C but he needs to be in the Top 6. I prefer him on wing so he doesn't have to be as responsible on defense.

 

[Hey234]

I don't see Zegras being a C in Anaheim and that's fine. Leo and Mac have already raised their games, winning more FO's and Leo especially showing his defensive play.

The only way I see it is if he is at 3C but he needs to be in the Top 6. I prefer him on wing so he doesn't have to be as responsible on defense.

I see arguments to both sides. The most important thing is getting him in the best possible position to produce offense. If his chemistry with McTavish continues, he's probably staying on wing for awhile.

 

[JAHV]

I just don't think there's an NHL coach who will allow Zegras to play center with his defensive deficiencies. The position at the NHL level requires a level of responsibility that I don't think is consistently attainable for Zegras.

Maybe he can't reach the same offensive heights at wing, but he can still be effective there I think.

 

[Gliff]

I just don't think there's an NHL coach who will allow Zegras to play center with his defensive deficiencies. The position at the NHL level requires a level of responsibility that I don't think is consistently attainable for Zegras.

Maybe he can't reach the same offensive heights at wing, but he can still be effective there I think.

There are a lot of centers that are not defensively responsible in the NHL.

 

[JAHV]

There are a lot of centers that are not defensively responsible in the NHL.

And I think Zegras at his best barely gets to their level. And Zegras at his best defensively, as we've seen, gives away a lot of the offense that makes him valuable. I just don't think it's a good use of his skillset.

 

[DavidBL]

And I think Zegras at his best barely gets to their level. And Zegras at his best defensively, as we've seen, gives away a lot of the offense that makes him valuable. I just don't think it's a good use of his skillset.

Have really seen his best defensively at center though?

 

[FiveTacos]

A defensively responsible C, productive offensively, who isn't too old or otherwise flawed .... That's hard to find. There's like multiple trade threads looking for that at any given time, and the ask is almost always (understandably) ridiculous because they're not really available.

You're talking about an ideal 2C, or if production is much higher than Zegras a lower end 1C. Those aren't available often.

Sure there's the ideal, but great teams take flawed players and utilize them to their strengths and play them with guys who mask their weaknesses.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

A defensively responsible C, productive offensively, who isn't too old or otherwise flawed .... That's hard to find. There's like multiple trade threads looking for that at any given time, and the ask is almost always (understandably) ridiculous because they're not really available.

You're talking about an ideal 2C, or if production is much higher than Zegras a lower end 1C. Those aren't available often.

Sure there's the ideal, but great teams take flawed players and utilize them to their strengths and play them with guys who mask their weaknesses.

If Lundestrom was a bit more talented he would be great for Zegras.

 

[JAHV]

Have really seen his best defensively at center though?

I think if we haven't, then Cronin wouldn't be so effusive in his praise. Cronin has said repeatedly this year that Zegras has done everything they've asked him to do, which I translate from coach-speak as "He's been coachable and he's tried to learn and he's given his best effort." The results have been poor. Better than in the past, but still not good.

Again, he's just a bad defensive player. There are plenty of centers out there who aren't good defensively but can get by because they meet the minimum standard. Heck, Anaheim has two of them in Strome and McTavish. Zegras falls below those guys - he lacks physicality, he lacks positional awareness, and, try as he might, all of his passion and zeal is for offense. It's just who he is. That works so much better on the wing.

If the Ducks want to try him as the 3C or something and see if they can get some matchup advantages out it, I'm not going to complain. And hopefully the offense would outpace the defense. It would just take the right coach and right system and right linemates to make it work. I don't think Anaheim has that at the moment.

 

[FiveTacos]

Again, he's just a bad defensive player. There are plenty of centers out there who aren't good defensively but can get by because they meet the minimum standard.

Not THAT many or we wouldn't have all those fans of various teams looking for ways to fill the role. On about half the teams in the league, a guy you described would be their de facto 1C.

Heck, Anaheim has two of them in Strome and McTavish.

I don't think Strome is remotely like that. He's a 3C at best. No team if given the choice for C would choose him over Zegras. And with McTavish it's still based on potential ... He's made strides, but let's see if it lasts for more than 20-some games.

It would just take the right coach and right system and right linemates to make it work. I don't think Anaheim has that at the moment.

If the recent surge by the kids doesn't last, we don't have much of anything to go with anyone. Thankfully, I think the kids are finally finding compatible matches ... with each other. I'm actually liking the Z-McT combo right now.

 

[JAHV]

Not THAT many or we wouldn't have all those fans of various teams looking for ways to fill the role. On about half the teams in the league, a guy you described would be their de facto 1C.



I don't think Strome is remotely like that. He's a 3C at best. No team if given the choice for C would choose him over Zegras. And with McTavish it's still based on potential ... He's made strides, but let's see if it lasts for more than 20-some games.



If the recent surge by the kids doesn't last, we don't have much of anything to go with anyone. Thankfully, I think the kids are finally finding compatible matches ... with each other. I'm actually liking the Z-McT combo right now.

I'm unclear what you're saying here. To try to clarify my point - I don't think Zegras meets the minimum defensive capabilities you need to play center in the NHL. NHL defensive systems require centers to have more defensive responsibilities than their wingers. You don't have to be GOOD defensively, you just can't be abjectly bad.

Strome and McTavish are not good defenders, but they can wrestle their responsibilities to a draw at least, which is why I used them as an example. I don't think Zegras has it in him to get even to their level. To his credit, it seems he's tried, but I think the wing is where he's best suited to play.

 

[FiveTacos]

I'm unclear what you're saying here. To try to clarify my point - I don't think Zegras meets the minimum defensive capabilities you need to play center in the NHL. NHL defensive systems require centers to have more defensive responsibilities than their wingers. You don't have to be GOOD defensively, you just can't be abjectly bad.

I don't think he is ablectly bad any more. And let's be honest, on a team with a real PP he'd have likely been a 70-80 point player twice, at which point I think you most certainly could live with defensive deficiencies, you'd just find him a couple two way wingers, which is a hell of a lot easier than finding an offensively productive scoring line C.

Strome and McTavish are not good defenders, but they can wrestle their responsibilities to a draw at least, which is why I used them as an example.

Funny, I thought McT was garbage on D until fairly recently. And until his uptick on offense he was definitely NOT wrestling to a draw.

I don't think Zegras has it in him to get even to their level. To his credit, it seems he's tried, but I think the wing is where he's best suited to play.

Maybe, but in any case I don't think positions matter SO much with Z and McT since McTavish doesn't necessarily play like a pure C himself. In a way they both seem to be playing hybrid C/LW, and it seems to be working. Maybe that's why Cutter and Mason worked too, as Gauthier did his fair share of the playmaking in those games as well.

 

[70sSanO]

This off season is going to be a big one for Trevor. He has to do some real soul searching and come in next season ready to go. He has to figure out how he can be productive. For his sake I hope he does.

He’s making almost $6m and will be an RFA. Right now he has no value and few in the NHL will he thinking about potential at age 25.

Few of us have the luxury of the best environment to succeed. We have to adapt and succeed regardless of the idiots we work for.

John

 

[HanSolo]

This off season is going to be a big one for Trevor. He has to do some real soul searching and come in next season ready to go. He has to figure out how he can be productive. For his sake I hope he does.

He’s making almost $6m and will be an RFA. Right now he has no value and few in the NHL will he thinking about potential at age 25.

Few of us have the luxury of the best environment to succeed. We have to adapt and succeed regardless of the idiots we work for.

John

Yeah I mean the talk is he's gotten his production back on track to his first two full seasons this last stretch of games, but if he wants a meaningful raise, he needs to prove he's better than that. The "team played better when we got Z back" effect only goes so far.

Right now, Mac, Leo and Cutter appear to be on the right track to be the biggest earners amongst the young forwards.

I think Z is playing better lately but there's still aspects of his game on an individual shift basis that need to improve, mis aiming or underpowering passes has been a common one lately. Right now, as much as he brings, he's still playing at a second line level overall.

 

[Gliff]

Ya, if he doesn't step up next year in actual production you have to assume he gets moved.

 

[Deuce22]

I think some context is needed here. Under his first coach, Zegras was allowed to do what he does offensively and 60+ point seasons were the result. Unfortunately, those teams were historically bad on defense and Cronin was hired. Under Cronin, Zegras has been reigned in. Cronin moved him to wing because he doesn't trust him defensively at center. His power play time has been cut back and he's been benched when making mistakes. Cronin and Z are a poor match. A dynamic offensive center with a defensively focused coach. Seeing Strome out there on the 5 on 3 may have been too much for him. I think our expectations need to be lowered as long as this coaching staff is in place.