Trevor Timmins Part II

[Belial]

A fun, pointless activity, I used wikipedia to look up what happened to draft picks traded away by the Habs during the period 2003-2012.

The following is an incredibly uninspiring list of players. What a fun coincidence.

2003,
109th, Andreas Valdix
147th, Kalle Olsson
207, Grigory Misharin

2004
51, Bruce Graham
95, Paul Baier
117, Julien Sprunger

2005
56, Marc-Andre Cliche
66, Brodie Dupont

2006,
16, Ty Wishart
79, Jonathan Matsumoto
109, Jakub Kovar
169, Chris Auger

2007,
103, Vladimir Ruzicka
193, David Skokan

2008,
25, Greg Nemisz
146, Julien Demers
176, Matthew Tassone

2009,
45, Jeremy Morin
49, Stefan Elliot

2010,
27, Mark Visentin (Tinordi trade)
32, Jared Knight
57, Oscar Lindberg
87, Julian Melchiori
177, Kevin Lind

2011
47, Matt Nieto
50, Johan Sundstrom
78, Brennan Serville

2012,
124, Ryan Culkin
127, Brian Cooper
184, Marek Langhamer

Well, here you have it! Draft picks are overrated! Especially after the first round.

 

[DAChampion]

Well, here you have it! Draft picks are overrated! Especially after the first round.

Especially after the first round? Those first rounders are worth nothing.

2006, 16, Ty Wishart
2008, 25, Greg Nemisz
2010, 27, Mark Visentin (Tinordi trade)

 

[Belial]

Especially after the first round? Those first rounders are worth nothing.

2006, 16, Ty Wishart
2008, 25, Greg Nemisz
2010, 27, Mark Visentin (Tinordi trade)

You still have a pretty good chance to draft a serviceable NHLer in the first round.

I'm just talking about percentages here. You have a lot of busts in the first round too...

 

[Mrb1p]

If Timmins would have the same eye on forwards than he has on goalies, we'd be a REAL top contending team.

How about the eye he has on defensemen?

Can you find another team that drafted Subban, McDonagh, Emelin, Beaulieu, Sergachev, Mete, Streit, Weber, Juulsen, Lernour

Thats 3 (so far) all star in 13 years? 5 top 4 D in 13 years.

Find me someone with a better track record, come on!

 

[Belial]

How about the eye he has on defensemen?

Can you find another team that drafted Subban, McDonagh, Emelin, Beaulieu, Sergachev, Mete, Streit, Weber, Juulsen, Lernour

Thats 3 (so far) all star in 13 years? 5 top 4 D in 13 years.

Find me someone with a better track record, come on!

Ryan Sutter, Shea Weber, Kevin Klein, Cody Franson, Roman Josi, Mattias Ekholm, Ryan Ellis, Seth Jones, Dante Fabbro, Samuel Girard...

 

[yianik]

How about the eye he has on defensemen?

Can you find another team that drafted Subban, McDonagh, Emelin, Beaulieu, Sergachev, Mete, Streit, Weber, Juulsen, Lernour

Thats 3 (so far) all star in 13 years? 5 top 4 D in 13 years.

Find me someone with a better track record, come on!

Yes, and if we had kept McDo, then he or Sergachev could be flipped for the missing center.

 

[scrubadam]

Yes, and if we had kept McDo, then he or Sergachev could be flipped for the missing center.

Funny think is McD was flipped for our missing C. But we wound up with Gomez a real lemon.

Wasting time and assets chasing a C instead of picking one up in the draft when guys like Zajac/Giroux/Kopitar/Bergeron and others were available.

TT is great at finding D but thats about it. Not good at finding forwards and after Price/Halak his goaltending drafting is pretty suspect too.

Yes he found Max/AG/Galley over 14 years but he missed on a ton of other forwards. We are even talking about Hartman vs McCarron now another possible swing and miss by TT?

 

[Whitesnake]

How about the eye he has on defensemen?

Can you find another team that drafted Subban, McDonagh, Emelin, Beaulieu, Sergachev, Mete, Streit, Weber, Juulsen, Lernour

Thats 3 (so far) all star in 13 years? 5 top 4 D in 13 years.

Find me someone with a better track record, come on!

Love that list. So I can actually use prospects that are totally unproven and make a list as if they are proven? Who is that 3rd all-star D you're talking about? Sergachev? Wow...so he's already an all-star without having played a game? When are we retiring his jersey? Next year?

While Condon, Lindgren and McNiven are fairly recent and boost his 6 or 7 last years when he had less overall success, your list of PROVEN NHL'ers tells us that he was great pre 2007. Aside from the great Beaulieu obviously. ALL THE OTHERS still need to be proven. And awesome to add Weber and Lernout just for the pleasure of adding random names to make that list bigger....

 

[ginomini]

Ryan Sutter, Shea Weber, Kevin Klein, Cody Franson, Roman Josi, Mattias Ekholm, Ryan Ellis, Seth Jones, Dante Fabbro, Samuel Girard...

That list is pretty insane. However NSH has pretty much the same problem than MTL. They can't draft offense... Johansen trade and Forsberg trade that's all.

Like MTL, good at getting D, G and depth, but no real offensive talent.

 

[Whitesnake]

Ryan Sutter, Shea Weber, Kevin Klein, Cody Franson, Roman Josi, Mattias Ekholm, Ryan Ellis, Seth Jones, Dante Fabbro, Samuel Girard...

Just warning you...you are NOT going to get a reply for that post. Well except mine...you won't....okay you just did. Geez Ginomini.....you screwed up my post.

Yep, that eats our D list alive. Still, pre 2007, Timmins was clealry amongst the best if not the best.

 

[Belial]

That list is pretty insane. However NSH has pretty much the same problem than MTL. They can't draft offense... Johansen trade and Forsberg trade that's all.

Like MTL, good at getting D, G and depth, but no real offensive talent.

Well , they drafted Radulov!

But yeah, seems like they have a tough time drafting good offensive forwards while nailing it with the D's.

But we're doing neither, to be honest, Streit, Mcdo and Subban are great but that's all before 2007... Where's our Seth Jones that we could trade for Ryan Johansen?

Just warning you...you are NOT going to get a reply for that post. Well except mine...you won't....okay you just did. Geez Ginomini.....you screwed up my post.

Yep, that eats our D list alive. Still, pre 2007, Timmins was clealry amongst the best if not the best.

2 and counting

 

[scrubadam]

Love that list. So I can actually use prospects that are totally unproven and make a list as if they are proven? Who is that 3rd all-star D you're talking about? Sergachev? Wow...so he's already an all-star without having played a game? When are we retiring his jersey? Next year?

While Condon, Lindgren and McNiven are fairly recent and boost his 6 or 7 last years when he had less overall success, your list of PROVEN NHL'ers tells us that he was great pre 2007. Aside from the great Beaulieu obviously. ALL THE OTHERS still need to be proven. And awesome to add Weber and Lernout just for the pleasure of adding random names to make that list bigger....

Weren't Condon/Lindgren/Mcniven singed as UFA and not drafted?

 

[Whitesnake]

Weren't Condon/Lindgren/Mcniven singed as UFA and not drafted?

Yes. What's your point? You don't think that those acquisitions aren't written Timmins all over this? You think Bergevin knew those guys and scouted them himself? This is clearly Timmins and/or his scouting group who surely had scouted them before and wanted Bergie to sign them.

 

[scrubadam]

Yes. What's your point? You don't think that those acquisitions aren't written Timmins all over this? You think Bergevin knew those guys and scouted them himself? This is clearly Timmins and/or his scouting group who surely had scouted them before and wanted Bergie to sign them.

My only point is that they weren't drafted by TT so we shouldn't count them as his draft picks.

After Price TT has not gotten a good goalie prospect in the system. Even Tokarski wasn't drafted by TT.

He got us what Massien and Fucale 2 busts.

 

[DAChampion]

My only point is that they weren't drafted by TT so we shouldn't count them as his draft picks.

After Price TT has not gotten a good goalie prospect in the system. Even Tokarski wasn't drafted by TT.

He got us what Massien and Fucale 2 busts.

And Halak.

 

[scrubadam]

And Halak.

Pre Price though. After Price nothing.

I understand that when you have a blue chip in nets you don't need to focus on goaltending but it would be nice to have something there. At least have a fall back plan and take some leverage out of Prices hands.

TB just moved on from Bishop and Pens are going to move on from MAF. Neither of those guys are as good as Price but both teams were able to make the hard decision because they have 2 strong goalie prospects that they drafted ready to step in.

 

[Whitesnake]

My only point is that they weren't drafted by TT so we shouldn't count them as his draft picks.

After Price TT has not gotten a good goalie prospect in the system. Even Tokarski wasn't drafted by TT.

He got us what Massien and Fucale 2 busts.

So when I criticize Timmins, I'M bashed. And when I give him credit for some UFA, I'm criticize.

Sorry, again, the fact that they are not draft picks don't matter. Guys that are invited to the development camp without being drafted....you think it was not Timmins doing? There is 7 rounds in a draft. And there's the UFA business that Timmins and his crew ALSO has to work on. If Grant would be here, he'd tell you. Go on Twitter....and ask him. He doesn't talk to me but he'll talk to you.

 

[ginomini]

Pre Price though. After Price nothing.

I understand that when you have a blue chip in nets you don't need to focus on goaltending but it would be nice to have something there. At least have a fall back plan and take some leverage out of Prices hands.

TB just moved on from Bishop and Pens are going to move on from MAF. Neither of those guys are as good as Price but both teams were able to make the hard decision because they have 2 strong goalie prospects that they drafted ready to step in.

What's your complaint ? We have one of the league's best goalie pool with McNiven, Lindgren, Fucale and Hawkey.

At least one of those guys could become a decent starter.

 

[scrubadam]

So when I criticize Timmins, I'M bashed. And when I give him credit for some UFA, I'm criticize.

Sorry, again, the fact that they are not draft picks don't matter. Guys that are invited to the development camp without being drafted....you think it was not Timmins doing? There is 7 rounds in a draft. And there's the UFA business that Timmins and his crew ALSO has to work on. If Grant would be here, he'd tell you. Go on Twitter....and ask him. He doesn't talk to me but he'll talk to you.

I think you are mistaken I am not bashing you. I was just pointing out that those 3 weren't drafted by TT. I agree with your criticism of TT.

 

[Mrb1p]

Well , they drafted Radulov!

But yeah, seems like they have a tough time drafting good offensive forwards while nailing it with the D's.

But we're doing neither, to be honest, Streit, Mcdo and Subban are great but that's all before 2007... Where's our Seth Jones that we could trade for Ryan Johansen?



2 and counting

We got a Johansen that could land us a Seth Jones instead. They spent their highest pick on Jones, we spent it on Galchenyuk, we both got the best players in the draft.

Love that list. So I can actually use prospects that are totally unproven and make a list as if they are proven? Who is that 3rd all-star D you're talking about? Sergachev? Wow...so he's already an all-star without having played a game? When are we retiring his jersey? Next year?

While Condon, Lindgren and McNiven are fairly recent and boost his 6 or 7 last years when he had less overall success, your list of PROVEN NHL'ers tells us that he was great pre 2007. Aside from the great Beaulieu obviously. ALL THE OTHERS still need to be proven. And awesome to add Weber and Lernout just for the pleasure of adding random names to make that list bigger....

You missed Streit or something? Two times top 10 in Norris voting, multiple 40 points seasons..

Also Weber is a legit NHL player.

 

[Whitesnake]

You missed Streit or something? Two times top 10 in Norris voting, multiple 40 points seasons..

Also Weber is a legit NHL player.

Yeah, Streit is a very good d-man. All-Star??? You think he'll be seen as an all-star? Geez, what is Shea Weber and Ryan Suter? Semi-gods?

 

[Mrb1p]

Yeah, Streit is a very good d-man. All-Star??? You think he'll be seen as an all-star? Geez, what is Shea Weber and Ryan Suter? Semi-gods?

I meam, top 10 in Norris twice in a year, playing until hes 40 and actuallu putting up points, 62 points, etc.

If you wanna get caught in semantics and derail the discussion into stupidity, be my guess.

 

[Whitesnake]

I think you are mistaken I am not bashing you. I was just pointing out that those 3 weren't drafted by TT. I agree with your criticism of TT.

Well my overall criticism is 2 things. I think TT was lights out in goalies. Very good in d-men. But awful in forwards. And he's been mediocre since 2008 until proven otherwise. And I,m including 2012.

I meam, top 10 in Norris twice in a year, playing until hes 40 and actuallu putting up points, 62 points, etc.

If you wanna get caught in semantics and derail the discussion into stupidity, be my guess.

Stupidity? Well.....okay, I won't be caught in semantics with you.....what you are actually saying is not what you mean. I get it now.

By the way, have you replied to Belial's post about Nashville d-men draft?

 

[Mrb1p]

Well my overall criticism is 2 things. I think TT was lights out in goalies. Very good in d-men. But awful in forwards. And he's been mediocre since 2008 until proven otherwise. And I,m including 2012.

How many high profile forwards did we try to get vs dmen?

 

[Whitesnake]

How many high profile forwards did we try to get vs dmen?

Timmins said in 2006 and 2007 that the reason why he went hard on d-men was for organizational needs. Strangely, we never had any forward needs? He should have done more in that regard. And that's a problem that we are paying the price as we speak. And not only that but right now, we are also playing the price of the lack of findings since 2008.

2007 was not the norm for him. It was the exception. So he STILL made an incredible draft. But people have to stop going back to the stone age to try to demonstrate how great he is. Aside from the stupid McDo trade, this great 2007 draft is STILL not good enough to make us a real top contending team.