Trevor Linden or Kirk Muller?

[Staniowski]

That's pretty heady praise. For me, Mats Naslund, Stéphane Richer at his best, and Vince Damphousse were all better than Muller. And maybe Bobby Smith for a while, too...

And Carbonneau, who was probably the Habs' most important forward in the period from the early '80s to the early '90s. He was the heart of the team's defensive game.

When I was watching the Habs, though, in the '93 season, I remember contemplating this question, of whether Muller was better than the guys you mentioned. It's a matter of opinion, but I think Muller - at his best - was the best of them. Muller was a leader and had the best hockey sense (along with Carbonneau).

Muller was a sad case, though. He certainly looked like a hall-of-famer in '93...but just disintegrated soon after this. After '94, he never scored more than 40 points ever again. And he wasn't old.

 

[connellc]

Great job for the author. This is one of the closest player comparisons I have seen. Both were similar in a lot of ways.

Pretty even in everything, except I like Linden's playoff resume more. However, Muller has the cup but Linden meant a lot more to Vancouver. That 1993 season seems to be a fair comparison for overlapping peaks.

Linden was also shootout specialist, and was picked for national teams (1996 Canada cup and 2006 Olympics) (58.33% although only 12 attempts).

1st half career is a tie
2nd half is very slight advantage Linden

 

[MS]

My immediate answer is Muller, but the more I reflect, the closer I think it is. How the heck did Linden end up with 30 more points in three fewer playoff games? My god...

Yeah, this is one of those things that on paper looks like, 'Oh, Muller had the best offensive seasons + a Cup, he takes this' but when you dive deeper ... I'd certainly take Linden (although I might be biased).

1. Linden to me was a better defensive player than Muller, who as mentioned earlier in the thread was kind of one of those guys who had good defensive play attributed to him because he was a gritty square-jawed guy from Kingston rather than that he was actually really good defensively. Linden was also a bigger, more physical player.

2. Linden was an absolute monster in the playoffs. He was a Claude Lemieux who just never got to play for a consistently elite team. Best Canuck every year, upped his physical game in a huge way, one of those players who legitimately turned into a postseason superstar. Even in the 2007 playoffs when he was 37 and nearly finished he stepped up the team's best forward and led the Canucks in playoff scoring.

3. Usage. I've mentioned this before, but Linden really only had one stretch as a 'first liner' in the prime his career, when he scored 50 points in the first 40 games of the 91-92 season at age 21. Then Pavel Bure exploded in the 2nd half of that season, and for the rest of his prime until his 96-97 knee injury he was pretty consistently on a high-leverage 2nd line while the Bure and/or Mogilny line got the top creamy offensive minutes. Muller by contrast was the undisputed 20+ minute #1 C for NJ/Montreal for several years. I think this explains away quite a bit of the production disparity.

4. Better career finish. Both guys had a major crash from impact players to depth players around age 27-28, but Linden was still a substantially superior two-way player and outscored Muller by basically a 2:1 ratio in their age 31-32 seasons as an example. Muller fell off much harder and was basically a fungible 4th line player for most of his 30s while Linden averaged 40-45 points/82 from age 30-35. And had some big highs like that 2007 playoffs.

 

[Moose Head]

That's pretty heady praise. For me, Mats Naslund, Stéphane Richer at his best, and Vince Damphousse were all better than Muller. And maybe Bobby Smith for a while, too...

Personally I’d take Habs Muller over Habs Richer any day of the week. That said, I’d take habs Smith over both of them.

Speaking of Damphousse, I still recall him saying he would have taken the contract the habs gave Linden in order to stay in Montreal. Damn the Houle/Corey admin was stupid.

 

[sr edler]

There's a stage of fatigue phenomenon in cycling known as bonking, I think because your body is low on carbohydrates which exhausts the glycogen stores, where your legs just run dead and can't pedal properly anymore or with any power.

I think more broader in a pro sports context (or just in any physical workaholic context) you can apply this to taking on too much responsibility or spending too much energy over a set period of time. Muller and Linden, yes, but also similar type of players like Mike Richards or Jonathan Toews, young two-way captains mid-ice set to carry their teams forward to more promised lands. All these guys essentially bonked at a certain point in their mid to late 20s.