Confirmed with Link: Trevor Lewis 2 year extension, $1.525m per year

[driller1]

$12 million on two bottom six forwards and $21 million to centers, again don't see how this is realistic.

Kings are lucky to be an incredibly deep team. Brown and Richards would be top 6 on probably 25 other teams (I'm looking at the big picture and not the dumpster fire seasons both have had). I think bottom 6 is somewhat of a misnomer, since Richards has gotten 16-18 minutes of ice time despite being on the "4th line." Let's wait for the playoffs and see which version of Brown and Richards we get before we pass judgement.

Pit spends $18.2 million on 2 centers, probably $21 million on 3 centers when Sutter is resigned. There's nothing wrong with depth up the middle. I'd rather spend it there than on the wings. Also, Carts can easily slide to wing.

 

[Telos]

Again. Will have to agree to disagree. Truly, none of us know, it's all speculation, I have my reasons for thinking one might be gone, you have yours for thinking there is no chance.

But just out of curiosity, does anyone know of another team that has $12 million of cap space on two bottom six forwards which the Kings would have next season if neither one is moved.

$12 million on two bottom six forwards and $21 million on centers, again don't see how this is realistic. Lewis at $1.5 is fine for a fourth line center, not so much if he is being used as a 4th line rw on a bottom six that already has $15 million between three players.

You're assuming that Richards is a fourth liner for the rest of his career, or that he'll be permanently planted there for the remainder of his time as a King. In your mind, the damage is done and his career has deteriorated to the point where he might as well be a bought-out fourth line center for the Florida Panthers (Even though he is still getting his ice time and moving up and being used for special situations at will. This isn't a permanent move by Sutter).

Perhaps, but we can easily fit their contracts on the roster heading into next season, and Dean isn't going to make a move like that until he has to. Their play is concerning and alarming, but it isn't panic inducing. Sure, if things are the same by next deadline, we may be talking about something, but there really isn't a whole lot to talk about before the playoffs start.

Even then, Dean would stick to Richards and Brown as he has Stoll. I am sure you have metrics and charts galore to show how Stoll is better than Brown and Richards combined because he has played better defensively recently, but there is no way Dean gives up on one because they had a down year based on advanced stats. They will both be in the lineup next year, we will see by next deadline if they remain there, but I would bet on them remaining.

 

[Jason Lewis]

Again. Will have to agree to disagree. Truly, none of us know, it's all speculation, I have my reasons for thinking one might be gone, you have yours for thinking there is no chance.

But just out of curiosity, does anyone know of another team that has $12 million of cap space on two bottom six forwards which the Kings would have next season if neither one is moved.

$12 million on two bottom six forwards and $21 million on centers, again don't see how this is realistic. Lewis at $1.5 is fine for a fourth line center, not so much if he is being used as a 4th line rw on a bottom six that already has $15 million between three players.

Okay, but they're NOT bottom 6 forwards in reality.

You're tending to see them for where they are playing and not for the player they are. Richard's ice time has been consistent throughout the season as a 2nd line center. If you compare his minutes to other 2nd line centers it's relatively close.

Richards - 16:59
Shaw - 15:33
Stastny/MacKinnon - 18:21/17:15
Couturier/Lecavalier - 19:04/15:16
Jussi Jokinen - 15:33
Bonino - 16:12
Eakin - 17:24
Bergeron - 18:04
Sobotka/Bergland - 16:36/16:09
Couture - 19:07 (Not a very balanced 1-4 center group if Pavelski plays wing. Thornton, Couture, Sheppard, Dejardins)


On your more balanced teams Richards is playing is about average for a second line center. Now, if you want to argue that we are paying Richards too much in comparison to those others listed than that's certainly an argument worth having, but stop calling him a bottom six forward.

The Kings roll four lines and rotate 4-5 centers in any given situation. We have one No. 1 center in Kopitar, and essentially three second line centers in Carter, Richards, and to a lesser degree Stoll.

Just because he starts on the fourth line does not mean he is a fourth liner.


I won't argue about Dustin Brown. The dude's icetime is down about five minutes from his average over the last three seasons. Hopefully just a down year and he is back up next year.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

I am okay with this.

People complain about 200k voor Lewis while Brown got at least 800k too much for way too long.

 

[Herby]

Jason,

I don't want to get in trouble again by turning this into a Mike Richards thread.

But MR's icetime has decreased each month of the season, from 18:25 in October to 16:33 in December to 15:52 in April. So while his season average is still relatively high, his icetime has been cut pretty significantly from where it was at the beginning of the year, because despite what you want to say, he is a bottom six player right now, largely because he has been awful in a top 6 role since December.

@Driller. Pittsburgh is paying $18 million to two former MVP centers. I have no problem paying Kopitar and Carter the $13 million they make (which likely jumps up to close to $15 with Kopi's extension), but it's not a positive to be paying a 3rd and 4th line center as much as the Kings are currently paying their 3rd and 4th line centers. And you mention Carter sliding back over to wing, why would the Kings want to do that, they have no one else right now who is capable of centering the 2nd line at a high level. Carter looked terrible playing 2nd line RW after the Gaborik trade, his game only started to take off again when he was moved to center and given some capable players to work with in the two young kids.

@NoseofSutter, Yes Williams, Stoll and Regehr are UFA's after next season. But you are incorrect in saying it's freed up cap space, because the players have to be replaced. Sure, Stoll can be replaced on the cheap, but it's not going to be cheap to replace the first line rw and the tough minutes that Regehr has been playing lately. And then you factor in that Martinez (UFA), Muzzin, Toffoli, Pearson, Clifford and ofcourse the big one Kopitar the year after.

You guys may be able to find the cap space for next season (I agree it's realistic), but things start to get really dicey beyond that. And if DL knows he is going to need to unload one of those contracts then a strong case is made to do it this summer because he can still likely get value for both players. If they both play in 2015 like they did this year there will be very little value on either one.

 

[Fishhead]

I think whether or not the reduced ice time for Brown and Richards pays dividends in the playoffs will be very telling. Both of these guys, when on, play a style that is very stressing on the body.

If they bring it in the playoffs, it will be pretty obvious that they were minimizing the risk of injury and were saving energy for when it truly counts. If they continue their lackluster play, I think it's completely fair to question if their contracts will be viable in only a couple seasons, let alone their entire lengths.

I don't think the Lewis extension will have much of an impact on the cap, it's a good price for him. He traditionally plays at a noticeably higher level in the playoffs, and I expect more of the same from him.

 

[Mitchnesses]

Glad to see Lewis locked up for 2 more years. Workhorse that always gives it his all.

 

[Herby]

You're assuming that Richards is a fourth liner for the rest of his career, or that he'll be permanently planted there for the remainder of his time as a King.

Even then, Dean would stick to Richards and Brown as he has Stoll. I am sure you have metrics and charts galore to show how Stoll is better than Brown and Richards combined because he has played better defensively recently, but there is no way Dean gives up on one because they had a down year based on advanced stats.

So now it's time to make fun of the stats, got it. BTW it's not only the advanced stats, the old fashioned stats look just as terrible.

And I don't think Richards will be the fourth line center next year. I assume if Dean brings back Richards it will be in a third line role and Stoll is likely moved for a pick (despite playing pretty well this season) and either Lewis or Vey are centering the fourth line.

Whoever moves, whether it's Brown, Richards or Stoll I think one is gone, I don't see the Kings paying that much to so many bottom six players.

The Kings still need to re-sign Gaborik, possibly add a defenseman, work on extensions for AMart, Muzzin and possibly RR. The Kings could/should also be looking for a 2nd line lw they could sign for a year or two if there are any doubts about Pearson playing the role permanently next season (probably be judged based on the playoffs)

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

But MR's icetime has decreased each month of the season, from 18:25 in October to 16:33 in December to 15:52 in April. So while his season average is still relatively high, his icetime has been cut pretty significantly from where it was at the beginning of the year, because despite what you want to say, he is a bottom six player right now, largely because he has been awful in a top 6 role since December.

@Driller. Pittsburgh is paying $18 million to two former MVP centers. I have no problem paying Kopitar and Carter the $13 million they make (which likely jumps up to close to $15 with Kopi's extension), but it's not a positive to be paying a 3rd and 4th line center as much as the Kings are currently paying their 3rd and 4th line centers. And you mention Carter sliding back over to wing, why would the Kings want to do that, they have no one else right now who is capable of centering the 2nd line at a high level. Carter looked terrible playing 2nd line RW after the Gaborik trade, his game only started to take off again when he was moved to center and given some capable players to work with in the two young kids.

In regards to the first boldfaced, I don't disagree in the literal manner--but let's also keep in mind the Kings especially lately have been rolling their third and fourth lines much more than other teams. MR's ice time has obviously been cut and for pretty clear reasons that we don't need to get into as you mention, but I see what JL was saying in that calling MR a 4th-line center is misleading even if you didn't mean it that way.

In regards to the second--I don't disagree philosophically with what you're saying but I will say that DL may disagree based on how he likes to build his teams. I know he's not, but if MR was playing up to his capabilities, we'd be paying three top-tier centers in their respective slots a very fair amount of money and if that made our 4C stoll sure he's 'overpaid' but he and Richards would also be the best 3rd and 4th C in the league. To me, it's just a matter of where you're placing your money--where we've been unloading it on C, D, G, other teams are loading it on the wings. For example, Chicago's got holes at C, but they're paying their wingers big money instead. I don't know if I said that right but I guess I just mean the investment-per-position is different.

Edit: just saw what you said re: investing so much money in the bottom six and it would be hard for me to disagree with that. good point.

I think whether or not the reduced ice time for Brown and Richards pays dividends in the playoffs will be very telling. Both of these guys, when on, play a style that is very stressing on the body.

If they bring it in the playoffs, it will be pretty obvious that they were minimizing the risk of injury and were saving energy for when it truly counts. If they continue their lackluster play, I think it's completely fair to question if their contracts will be viable in only a couple seasons, let alone their entire lengths.

I don't think the Lewis extension will have much of an impact on the cap, it's a good price for him. He traditionally plays at a noticeably higher level in the playoffs, and I expect more of the same from him.

I fully agree with this and as I said before the Lewis extension seems to only be raising blood pressure due to other contracts, not his own.

 

[Jason Lewis]

Jason,

I don't want to get in trouble again by turning this into a Mike Richards thread.

But MR's icetime has decreased each month of the season, from 18:25 in October to 16:33 in December to 15:52 in April. So while his season average is still relatively high, his icetime has been cut pretty significantly from where it was at the beginning of the year, because despite what you want to say, he is a bottom six player right now, largely because he has been awful in a top 6 role since December.

You are definitely not incorrect in his view of ice time fluctuation, and I'm alright to agree to disagree here. DEFINITELY entitled to that stance on his play. Richards is polarizing for sure.

 

[damacles1156]

Mike Richards and Dustin Brown are going nowhere this season or next season....

Don't care about the money Lewis got. I care about his lack of offense; and him sucking up a roster spot that could have gone too a more offensive minded player.

The Bottom six needs too score more, it needs more balance. I would have started that with not resigning Lewis/traded Clifford by now.

Who knows maybe Lombardi is seriously considering moving Clifford at the Draft. Or the next deadline, (if Clifford provides no offense)

Stoll is at least going to hit close 30 points this season.

 

[Seventyx7]

This team is to the point where it all comes down to the playoffs. Stats aside, if you actually watch the games, it's easy to see Richards has been bad this year.

But I am going to keep believing in him until he has a ****** playoffs. If he needs to half ass it all year to ensure being 100% and healthy come playoff time I can live with that. Would it be nice to go full speed all year and contend for the division? Of course. But if his career (and Brown for that matter) is where they can no longer bring it all the time, I say save it for when it really counts.

If he sucks this year in the playoffs then it may be time to consider some tough decisions.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This team is to the point where it all comes down to the playoffs. Stats aside, if you actually watch the games, it's easy to see Richards has been bad this year.

But I am going to keep believing in him until he has a ****** playoffs. If he needs to half ass it all year to ensure being 100% and healthy come playoff time I can live with that. Would it be nice to go full speed all year and contend for the division? Of course. But if his career (and Brown for that matter) is where they can no longer bring it all the time, I say save it for when it really counts.

If he sucks this year in the playoffs then it may be time to consider some tough decisions.

Agreed. I think we are all hoping for the best and planning for the worst.

In Brown's case at least, I think he has some mitigating circumstances and this year is an extreme outlier.

 

[damacles1156]

Agreed. I think we are all hoping for the best and planning for the worst.

In Brown's case at least, I think he has some mitigating circumstances and this year is an extreme outlier.

Brown has been almost a PPG since the break, so I agree this year is just some sort of outlier.

Players that miss training camp, struggle all year.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Brown has been almost a PPG since the break, so I agree this year is just some sort of outlier.

I dont think 10 points in 18 games is ''almost'' a PPG.


Personally I rather see flashes of a good Brown without points anyway but that's not the case either.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

I don't think there is a chance in hell Brown is moved. I think Stoll is gone before Mike Richards but I'm not sure any of them will be moved though. DL is a lot less reactionary than most of the people on here.

 

[The Pale King]

love this move, glad to see lewis back for at least two years on a nice deal for both sides.

a lot of fans of other teams look at our roster and go, "how are these guys winning with a 10 point third line winger" but it's about way more than the numbers with T-lew, as well as a lot of other guys.

I actually think he'll continue to improve offensively. He's had some bad luck this year with his finishing. work on that shot and he'll only get better in that area.

 

[damacles1156]

love this move, glad to see lewis back for at least two years on a nice deal for both sides.

a lot of fans of other teams look at our roster and go, "how are these guys winning with a 10 point third line winger" but it's about way more than the numbers with T-lew, as well as a lot of other guys.

I actually think he'll continue to improve offensively. He's had some bad luck this year with his finishing. work on that shot and he'll only get better in that area.

Trevor lewis has 48 points in 273 NHL games , that's not bad luck. That's no offensive skill.

 

[saintsnsoldiers]

Trevor lewis has 48 points in 273 NHL games , that's not bad luck. That's no offensive skill.

Hmmm, not sure about no skill, he was a scorer in Juniors. Was hoping that would of translated more to the pros, think his progress was stunted a bit under Murray. I think he as not been able to finish which is the problem not lack of skill (yes there is skill in scoring), he gets himself into scoring position and gets shots off. Skills there just needs to hone or keep adding to his confidence. His goal out put in the second half is more then all of last year. He has always been a checking role with us and thank goodness for that. I think his scoring will continue to get better. Didn't Sutter say he was a very skilled player in an interview?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Hmmm, not sure about no skill, he was a scorer in Juniors. Was hoping that would of translated more to the pros, think his progress was stunted a bit under Murray. I think he as not been able to finish which is the problem not lack of skill (yes there is skill in scoring), he gets himself into scoring position and gets shots off. Skills there just needs to hone or keep adding to his confidence. His goal out put in the second half is more then all of last year. He has always been a checking role with us and thank goodness for that. I think his scoring will continue to get better. Didn't Sutter say he was a very skilled player in an interview?

He's obviously got plenty of skill but yeah there are plenty of guys who don't translate scoring in juniors/other leagues to the NHL. I.e. Brad Richardson, Corey Locke, Justin Azevedo, etc.

I agree on his IQ--he's always going to the right spots and I'm kind of surprised the production hasn't followed. I would also argue he's a Sutter/DL favorite for things we don't really have metrics for, as in the eye test tells me he's one of the best at skating the puck through the neutral zone into the opposing zone and retrieving it.

The hands-of-stone joke is mostly true but he was scoring at a roughly 1pt/3gms pace last year so this year was a shock to me. I still think there's 15-20 goal potential there in a career year but it looks like his shot release that's the problem (slow and likely easy to read).

 

[saintsnsoldiers]

He's obviously got plenty of skill but yeah there are plenty of guys who don't translate scoring in juniors/other leagues to the NHL. I.e. Brad Richardson, Corey Locke, Justin Azevedo, etc.

I agree on his IQ--he's always going to the right spots and I'm kind of surprised the production hasn't followed. I would also argue he's a Sutter/DL favorite for things we don't really have metrics for, as in the eye test tells me he's one of the best at skating the puck through the neutral zone into the opposing zone and retrieving it.

The hands-of-stone joke is mostly true but he was scoring at a roughly 1pt/3gms pace last year so this year was a shock to me. I still think there's 15-20 goal potential there in a career year but it looks like his shot release that's the problem (slow and likely easy to read).

Good Points... I think he can hit that 15-20 goal output and wouldn't it be great if he was doing it from the 3rd line. I'm living in Utah and I love me some T-Lew.

 

[damacles1156]

Jesus guys,


Lewis went almost 70 games without a goal , he is not going to pot 15 or 20 ever. A career year for him would be 7 goals.

Think about that.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Maybe not and I certainly don't expect it but he has most of the tools. As we mentioned above there's plenty of guys who don't translate offense from one level to the next. I'm holding out hope

Again, the question becomes what do we expect from our 3rd/4th liners? Last season, he was at about a 24-point pace. This season, he tanked it again. In a perfect world, Lewis is a 4th liner (albeit one with enough tools to jump around the lineup a la Derek Armstrong), and that production would be perfect. His versatility and special teams play along with everything else he brings to the table has earned him this contract. He's a swiss army knife.

 

[Minor Boarding]

So now it's time to make fun of the stats, got it. BTW it's not only the advanced stats, the old fashioned stats look just as terrible.

And I don't think Richards will be the fourth line center next year. I assume if Dean brings back Richards it will be in a third line role and Stoll is likely moved for a pick (despite playing pretty well this season) and either Lewis or Vey are centering the fourth line.

Whoever moves, whether it's Brown, Richards or Stoll I think one is gone, I don't see the Kings paying that much to so many bottom six players.

The Kings still need to re-sign Gaborik, possibly add a defenseman, work on extensions for AMart, Muzzin and possibly RR. The Kings could/should also be looking for a 2nd line lw they could sign for a year or two if there are any doubts about Pearson playing the role permanently next season (probably be judged based on the playoffs)

I agree with you. At least one pricey forward will be gone after this season.
To the mentioned I would add Williams as a possible guy to get traded.
Also one of the veteran defensive defensman will be gone.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

Maybe not and I certainly don't expect it but he has most of the tools. As we mentioned above there's plenty of guys who don't translate offense from one level to the next. I'm holding out hope

Again, the question becomes what do we expect from our 3rd/4th liners? Last season, he was at about a 24-point pace. This season, he tanked it again. In a perfect world, Lewis is a 4th liner (albeit one with enough tools to jump around the lineup a la Derek Armstrong), and that production would be perfect. His versatility and special teams play along with everything else he brings to the table has earned him this contract. He's a swiss army knife.

OMG.. Trevor Lewis = Derek Armstrong! Very similar players... at least from what I remember of Armstrong.

Lewis baffles me because he seems to skate well, handles the puck well (at times), forechecks well and looks like he knows what he is doing out there but doesn't seem to get on the scoresheet often. Iagree with what you said about his shot being very predictable. He also seems to whiff or flat out miss the net on some glorious chances that anybody should be able to score on. I'm not sure if that is bad luck or just not focused enough.

I always thought Armstrong was a decent player that was just missing something that could have made him a good player. I'm not sure what it is.. maybe vision? I don't know.. but Lewis is kinda like him. He looks like he knows what he is doing but for some reason he seems to look better when you watch him more than the stats would indicate. How can Trevor Lewis be on par with Raitis Ivanans in terms of offensive production?