News and Blog Report: Training camp & Preseason News & Notes

[powerserge]

Boo! oilers plus.

I agree, but for preseason not really, if you only want preseason, some insights and no blackouts on trying to watch other teams streams. You can get 2 free months of Oilers + and have just tested it, just do a monthly sub, works on Apple and Android. No hassles. Use code PRESEASON24 for 2 free months. Just cancel before/afterwards.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Bad player by your standards*

Anyone who makes it to the NHL gets there for a reason. Oilers think of him as an upgrade over Desharnais and targeted him early in free agency locking him up for 3 yrs. He may not be more than a #7 at NHL level but he is far from a 'bad player' by my standards

Bad player relative to other NHL players.by that logic we can never call any player in the league bad and they are all elite.

That's not what relative stats do at all.

A player in a defensive role is almost always going to have worse team metrics than guys playing in offensive situations with more talented players. One number that ignores all context of usage isn't going to tell you which player is doing a better job at their role.

If you are giving up far more than you produce you are not doing a good job in your role. Thats a fact. Good defensive players produce little offense but give up even less. If you are giving up way more than you produce you aren’t doing a good job. Even average defensive players are looking to give up as many chances as they get while in their ice.

And yes if he was being used in a tough defensive role against top 6 guys sure. But he wasn’t.
I hope for the best for him but he is a worse player than Desharnais, is older and preferably he is a guy who is used only against weaker teams that might try and start shit. He shouldn’t be a regular.

Other then fight, what does he actually do well if you are so optimistic on him?
He is 30, doesn’t move the puck well, doesn’t defend well. Not a good penalty killer. He can punch faces I guess?

 

[FlameChampion]

I like that Knoblauch is indicating that they are focusing on putting the best team together and that fans/media shouldn’t just focus on what the lines or pairings are.

Curious if this actually happens throughout camp and how much an opportunity Lavoie, Savoie, Philp, Kemp etc actually get.

 

[McDNicks17]

Bad player relative to other NHL players.by that logic we can never call any player in the league bad and they are all elite.


If you are giving up far more than you produce you are not doing a good job in your role. Thats a fact. Good defensive players produce little offense but give up even less. If you are giving up way more than you produce you aren’t doing a good job. Even average defensive players are looking to give up as many chances as they get while in their ice.

And yes if he was being used in a tough defensive role against top 6 guys sure. But he wasn’t.
I hope for the best for him but he is a worse player than Desharnais, is older and preferably he is a guy who is used only against weaker teams that might try and start shit. He shouldn’t be a regular.

Other then fight, what does he actually do well if you are so optimistic on him?
He is 30, doesn’t move the puck well, doesn’t defend well. Not a good penalty killer. He can punch faces I guess?

Again, without context, giving up more than you produce doesn’t really mean anything. There’s plenty of coaches who still use players in roles where they’ll be lucky to break even.

Brown saw the majority of his ice time in the defensive zone with a rookie with a 30% faceoff rate and Liam O’Brien. Any numbers coming from that are going to be pretty pointless. There’s a vastly different situation on the Oilers.

 

[LTIR]

Bad player relative to other NHL players.by that logic we can never call any player in the league bad and they are all elite.

I never call one bad.. just call out poor traits of players. Desharnais is a beauty player too with some difficiencies. He would be making Zadorov money if he didn't. I am sure we added Brown for a reason and am willing to give him a chance.

Again, without context, giving up more than you produce doesn’t really mean anything. There’s plenty of coaches who still use players in roles where they’ll be lucky to break even.

Brown saw the majority of his ice time in the defensive zone with a rookie with a 30% faceoff rate and Liam O’Brien. Any numbers coming from that are going to be pretty pointless. There’s a vastly different situation on the Oilers.

Looking to see what weakness he has... decision making? Foot speed ? Will find out.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Bad player relative to other NHL players.by that logic we can never call any player in the league bad and they are all elite.


If you are giving up far more than you produce you are not doing a good job in your role. Thats a fact. Good defensive players produce little offense but give up even less. If you are giving up way more than you produce you aren’t doing a good job. Even average defensive players are looking to give up as many chances as they get while in their ice.

And yes if he was being used in a tough defensive role against top 6 guys sure. But he wasn’t.
I hope for the best for him but he is a worse player than Desharnais, is older and preferably he is a guy who is used only against weaker teams that might try and start shit. He shouldn’t be a regular.

Other then fight, what does he actually do well if you are so optimistic on him?
He is 30, doesn’t move the puck well, doesn’t defend well. Not a good penalty killer. He can punch faces I guess?

I suggest you look at other D in the NHL who start in the D zone as much as brown.

Almost all except a couple are negative in terms in analytics

It’s a pretty simple concept

 

[CycloneSweep]

I suggest you look at other D in the NHL who start in the D zone as much as brown.

Almost all except a couple are negative in terms in analytics

It’s a pretty simple concept

And he was still the worst.

Again, without context, giving up more than you produce doesn’t really mean anything. There’s plenty of coaches who still use players in roles where they’ll be lucky to break even.

Brown saw the majority of his ice time in the defensive zone with a rookie with a 30% faceoff rate and Liam O’Brien. Any numbers coming from that are going to be pretty pointless. There’s a vastly different situation on the Oilers.

An abysmal player isn’t suddenly good on a good team. He could be less bad.
If he was mid twenties like Emerson sure. Brown is already 30 he isn’t going to suddenly be a much better player.

 

[McDNicks17]

And he was still the worst.



An abysmal player isn’t suddenly good on a good team. He could be less bad.
If he was mid twenties like Emerson sure. Brown is already 30 he isn’t going to suddenly be a much better player.

He doesn’t have to be a better player.

Players look better in better situations. Happens all the time when “bad” players leave bad teams. As Oilers fans, we’re probably more familiar with that than most.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You sir are SOL! Take it to the OT thread Bub!

Sorry bro. I was having trouble letting Chicken Wings be the biggest convo on the board. heh

Hockey season can't start fast enough.

Anybody here go to fanday? I thought about it but then thought about not waking up at 7am on a Sunday.

 

[CycloneSweep]

He doesn’t have to be a better player.

Players look better in better situations. Happens all the time when “bad” players leave bad teams. As Oilers fans, we’re probably more familiar with that than most.

There is a difference between bad and the worst though.
I mean we have also had lots of bad players that were, still bad elsewhere. Usually our bad guys who look better are younger players, not a 30 year old.
We will see soon. I think our team is good but depth wise Brown is 7th on a good day.
Still wild that the team that’s trying to be more analytics forward signed him to a 3 year deal but maybe they are the smartest people in the league and see something literally no one else sees.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

He only wants 10 from the Bruins. There is really bad blood there. He would take less elsewhere.

Listening to his interview he said he thinks he will be setting the marketplace for goalies and won’t take a penny less than what the market is. So it sounds like that’s what he wants to be paid no matter where he plays.

Either way December 1 comes fast so if he’s bound to his convictions he might sit out the entire year which would be hilarious.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

I agree, but for preseason not really, if you only want preseason, some insights and no blackouts on trying to watch other teams streams. You can get 2 free months of Oilers + and have just tested it, just do a monthly sub, works on Apple and Android. No hassles. Use code PRESEASON24 for 2 free months. Just cancel before/afterwards.

I just want all the games in one place. I'm not subscribing to multiple things to watch a few crappy preseason games.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Sorry bro. I was having trouble letting Chicken Wings be the biggest convo on the board. heh

Hockey season can't start fast enough.

Anybody here go to fanday? I thought about it but then thought about not waking up at 7am on a Sunday.

Chicken wings have their own thread though.

 

[McDNicks17]

There is a difference between bad and the worst though.
I mean we have also had lots of bad players that were, still bad elsewhere. Usually our bad guys who look better are younger players, not a 30 year old.
We will see soon. I think our team is good but depth wise Brown is 7th on a good day.
Still wild that the team that’s trying to be more analytics forward signed him to a 3 year deal but maybe they are the smartest people in the league and see something literally no one else sees.

Like I’ve been saying, that “worst” title is based on a flawed understanding of analytics.

 

[powerserge]

I just want all the games in one place. I'm not subscribing to multiple things to watch a few crappy preseason games.

Then don't. Hockey is back and want to see guys like Philp, Wanner, etc gain some experience. All the preseason games seem to be all over the place and with blackouts depending on your location. A free 2 month trial solves the issue of dealing with hassles for those that want to watch it.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

And he was still the worst.



An abysmal player isn’t suddenly good on a good team. He could be less bad.
If he was mid twenties like Emerson sure. Brown is already 30 he isn’t going to suddenly be a much better player.

I think defensive defensemen are a player type that is often misrepresented through secondary analytics work (one of my personal pet peeves). There needs to be a deeper dive to look into context of their usage, deployment, individual results in context of team results. Brown's ideally placed to be a veteran 3RD/7TH deployment and frankly with the security of a x3 contract an easy waiver guy who can shuttle between NHL and AHL. Brown is regarded as well for strong intangibles as a high character teammate and leader at lower levels. Physical game and some fighting willingness is a decent value-add for this team.

About his last season in AZ, he was a +3 within a team with a -20 goalshare. His NHL Edge numbers show a significant defensive zone start well above league average (like 5%). NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking Statistics - Skaters

Knoblauch has shown quickly to be a strong coach able to make strategic and in-game deployment decisions by instinct and information based. Brown's a low risk end of roster player with a specific tool kit that can help this team with a big, physical hard game.

 

[Gordy Elbows]

Josh Brown isn’t expected to provide us above-par defending. He only needs to provide the basic minimum while doing his 5 or 6 minutes in the games he plays.
What we really want from him is his presence (a word,glare or push as needed) when somebody is considering taking liberties with our players.
A few games like that sends a message….don’t need a full season of that.

 

[Fourier]

Josh Brown isn’t expected to provide us above-par defending. He only needs to provide the basic minimum while doing his 5 or 6 minutes in the games he plays.
What we really want from him is his presence (a word,glare or push as needed) when somebody is considering taking liberties with our players.
A few games like that sends a message….don’t need a full season of that.

If Brown is playing it will be more like 14-16 minutes. That is typical of a bottom pairing defender.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

There is a difference between bad and the worst though.
I mean we have also had lots of bad players that were, still bad elsewhere. Usually our bad guys who look better are younger players, not a 30 year old.
We will see soon. I think our team is good but depth wise Brown is 7th on a good day.
Still wild that the team that’s trying to be more analytics forward signed him to a 3 year deal but maybe they are the smartest people in the league and see something literally no one else sees.

I think this is gonna be another instance of your premature opinionating which is a condition you struggle with pretty severely.

When we get into the back half of the season and Brown proves to be a perfectly fine #6 who’s showing better then he has in the past, I look forward to your spin and revisionist softening of your opinions.