News and Blog Report: Training camp & Preseason News & Notes, **New Pole Added**

[Behind Enemy Lines]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1831840555460079823

Two solid 6 proven scoring wingers that have been badly needed on the top 6 especially for Drai = "but me worry about their size'

I uhh guess that short edit is supposed to be some sort of gotcha moment.

The full context would be helpful with likely normal dialogue to discuss pros and cons of player acquisition. Coming off a marathon game 7 Cup Final run, it's probably worth discussing durability, if not size questions, about Skinner and Arvy (past concussion and recent back issues respectively). Should be asking questions and actively discussing organizational philosophies and priorities especially with finite free agent bucks to spend.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I understand the concern about Josh Brown. But he played 15 minutes a night last year on a terrible Phoenix team and ended up a plus player at the end of the year.

He’s not going to be the make or break cog on the blueline this year. That’s going to be Emberson and if he can handle being a top 4 guy all season.

I think the make or break cog on D will be Nurse. If he plays like last season that entire 2nd pair could crater given Emberson has a mere 30 games under his belt.

 

[McDNicks17]

This thread was interesting.

I would say that makes almost no sense.

The only reason to go on LTIR to start the year is to keep Lavoie on the roster. Waiving him to add $60k in LTIR space by overpaying Dermott is downright nonsensical.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I think the make or break cog on D will be Nurse. If he plays like last season that entire 2nd pair could crater given Emberson has a mere 30 games under his belt.

I'm actually pretty comfortable with Nurse who's an annual double figure goals, thirty point, and 20 minute defender while doled out heavily weighted d-zone deployment. Hope that Knoblauch can manage some of his deployment to mitigate over play in which the poor, impulsive decisions is magnified and costly. I don't see a 2RD roster option that can hang in these big, critical minute ice-time deployment. Hope that doesn't stretch Bouchard into more minutes defending critical situations.

 

[FlameChampion]

I'm actually pretty comfortable with Nurse who's an annual double figure goals, thirty point, and 20 minute defender while doled out heavily weighted d-zone deployment. Hope that Knoblauch can manage some of his deployment to mitigate over play in which the poor, impulsive decisions is magnified and costly. I don't see a 2RD roster option that can hang in these big, critical minute ice-time deployment. Hope that doesn't stretch Bouchard into more minutes defending critical situations.

Problem with Nurse is that he’s serviceable in the regular season but once the games matter, his game craters. Been like this for awhile. Not sure we will have an answer until the season is over for better or worse.

 

[Spawn]

I completely disagree, the whole concept of a bad 3rd pairing being ok, doesn't really exist in the modern NHL teams have identified that as a key area to create gaps on lesser teams and strongly contribute to carrying less talented 3rd/4th line players to above average results.

The exceptions to that are the once in a blue moon 2 HOF d-man who play the same side for 25+ mins a night like Pronger and S. Niedermayer. What we have on our right side is Bouchard who played a career high 23 mins last season and then if J. Brown is playing 15 mins that means Emberson or Stecher is playing 22-ish mins!? Yuck! It's also worse cause Bouchard is an OFD who you clearly want to deploy in offensive situations which means less defensive zone draws which puts our suspect RHD in tougher situations more often.

Last season:
Desharnais in 78 games: 1g 10a +3 playing 15:44 per game on one of the best teams in the league

Brown in 51 games: 3G 7a +2 playing 14:45 per game on one of the worst teams in the league.

Brown needs to cover about one extra shift per game to make up for the loss of Desharnais.

They’re both bottom pair do nothing plugs. They aren’t difference makers either way. Browns been a bottom pair plug for nearly 300 games in the league. Kulak will be good enough to cover him just like he was good enough to cover Desharnais.

Emberson is the big question on whether he can repeat his 30 games from last season with an expanded role and expectations.

I think the make or break cog on D will be Nurse. If he plays like last season that entire 2nd pair could crater given Emberson has a mere 30 games under his belt.

22 minutes a night, a plus player and 30+ points isn’t going to crater your 2nd pair.

Nurse is far from good value on his contract, but he’s not going to crater your second pair on his own.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Problem with Nurse is that he’s serviceable in the regular season but once the games matter, his game craters. Been like this for awhile. Not sure we will have an answer until the season is over for better or worse.

We'll see for sure. They've needed a bonafide 2RD upgrade for years. Someone with a strong structured defending ability that can mitigate the impulsivity moments in Nurse. Stronger, consistent team defending structure can help too.

There's ideally somewhere between Nurse's Jets playoff series beast mode and this last couple of seasons. He's overplayed with heavy defensive zone and critical situational play. Better deployment use can help and the long overdue 2RD upgrade also.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

22 minutes a night, a plus player and 30+ points isn’t going to crater your 2nd pair.

Nurse is far from good value on his contract, but he’s not going to crater your second pair on his own.

I disagree. Nurse has a pretty raw player as his partner now, something he’s not had before.

If Nurse goes into “do it all myself” mode he leaves Emberson hanging. If Emberson struggles that’s the impetus for Nurse to hit that mode.

In other words, Nurse needs to be a strong steady Eddie for Emberson back there no matter how Emberson plays. Think how Ekholm helped steady Bouchard’s game.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I disagree. Nurse has a pretty raw player as his partner now, something he’s not had before.

If Nurse goes into “do it all myself” mode he leaves Emberson hanging. If Emberson struggles that’s the impetus for Nurse to hit that mode.

In other words, Nurse needs to be a strong steady Eddie for Emberson back there no matter how Emberson plays. Think how Ekholm helped steady Bouchard’s game.

Ethan Bear?

He was more raw than Emberson.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I would definitely feel a bit more comfortable if Nurse could get into a game or two here. If he doesn't he's in for a rough first ten games or so and we can't afford to faceplant out of the gate again

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Ethan Bear?

He was more raw than Emberson.

True but for some reason Nurse’s play has degraded since then.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I disagree. Nurse has a pretty raw player as his partner now, something he’s not had before.

If Nurse goes into “do it all myself” mode he leaves Emberson hanging. If Emberson struggles that’s the impetus for Nurse to hit that mode.

In other words, Nurse needs to be a strong steady Eddie for Emberson back there no matter how Emberson plays. Think how Ekholm helped steady Bouchard’s game.

I think Nurse is fine dealing with a raw partner, where he starts to struggle is when his partner is happy to let Darnell dominate puck possession. Bear vs. Benning early in his career is a good example of this.
Nurse-Bear worked, as Bear was confident controlling the puck and making a breakout pass; while Nurse-Benning (or Gryba) saw the breakout near always go through Nurse back in 2016/17. The result of that? I still remember the threads and posts stating Brandon Davidson looked better than Nurse. (and to be fair, he did at the time...)


This is one reason why I'm not a fan of starting Emberson next to Nurse. I'd prefer someone like Stecher (or even Gleason) next to Nurse, Guys who actively want the puck on their stick and won't automatically default to Nurse to lead the breakout.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

True but for some reason Nurse’s play has degraded since then.

It really hasn't though.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

It really hasn't though.

Preface by saying I’m on record saying that I think he has a good year this year, but I do think his play last year in particular in the playoffs last year has not been peak Nurse.

 

[CupofOil]

I haven't seen any size fetish bias with Knoblauch and Coffey. They have actually shown the most versatility of any Oilers coaching group in recent memory to change and tweet defensive deployment including seismic risky moves in deep playoff competition. Coffey's philosophy is to encourage his d-men to make plays so giving 3RD runway to a big, physical defensive zone start guy over skill would seem to go against his philosophy. Knoblauch speaks of information based analytic supported decision making at times in his interviews.

Personally think this coaching staff has earned some runway through pre-season coming out of an off-season with deep change to its d-corp. This team rode a 94% PK as a critical, not likely repeatable event so playing through this key need with rotating personnel in pre-season is a reasonable focus. This team's coaching staff also have substantively more information and deeper statistical insight than we do. Let the process play out.

I like this coaching staff, they've done a great job, but I think the writing is on the wall with their deployments this preseason and practice pairings that Brown is the clear #6 now. I say "size fetish" because if he is indeed handed a spot despite being outplayed by some others who are smaller, it would lead me believe that him being a bigger Dman in the Desharnais mold with his size and reach is why he's getting the nod over the other guys not because he earned based on merit. I'm sure there will be a rotation in season but I think they want to give Brown the first long look to fill the Vinny role.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I like this coaching staff, they've done a great job, but I think the writing is on the wall with their deployments this preseason and practice pairings that Brown is the clear #6 now. I say "size fetish" because if he is indeed handed a spot despite being outplayed by some others who are smaller, it would lead me believe that him being a bigger Dman in the Desharnais mold with his size and reach is why he's getting the nod over the other guys not because he earned based on merit. I'm sure there will be a rotation in season but I think they want to give Brown the first long look to fill the Vinny role.

I didn't like the Brown signing on day 1. But I 'got' it with the term given to both him and Stecher was to build up organizational NHL depth that could move between Edmonton and Bakersfield. The team's plans changed August 12 and now they are indeed giving long looks at a 30 NHL game Emberson at 2 RD and clearly with an eye on PK and physicality Brown's getting reps at 3RD. As awkward as Brown looks, last night it was Gleason Emberson beat on a missed coverage for a goal and Stecher Kulak pairing also on a missed assignment that gave up the goals.

Like you, I have a fair bit of faith in Knoblauch and Coffey (right from the discombobulated hiring announcement). He's also an information driven coach aligned with the guy running the organization. So I believe there working with deeper and more diverse insight than I can eyeball or scrape from public sites. It's a hard veer from the deployment plan of July 1. Clearly they are working from their premise of a hierarchy based on Emberson, Brown, and Stetcher. I'm saying here we are with some earned trust in Knoblauch and this team's information based decision making approach. Let's see how their evaluation process shakes out. There's a rationale to it.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Preface by saying I’m on record saying that I think he has a good year this year, but I do think his play last year in particular in the playoffs last year has not been peak Nurse.

The playoffs last year and the 1 series against Colorado when he was injured.

His play has been pretty consistent other than those 2 things

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Watching these top players get injured in the last few days is making more worried about our top guys playing any more preseason games.

 

[Mr Positive]

Watching these top players get injured in the last few days is making more worried about our top guys playing any more preseason games.

Meh
I agree but it's not happening. It's always close to the main roster for the last games. Plus McDavid and Draisaitl seem to want to play to shake the rust. They want to start strong and avoid last season's horrid start

 

[KCC]

Watching these top players get injured in the last few days is making more worried about our top guys playing any more preseason games.

McDavid and Draisaitl have been around long enough. You have to get reps in to be ready. There's a reason why last night they went at 50% max. To get their legs under them, timing etc.

 

[LTIR]

Preface by saying I’m on record saying that I think he has a good year this year, but I do think his play last year in particular in the playoffs last year has not been peak Nurse.

Is it possible that Nurse was banged up in playoffs?
Physical limitations can cause brain farts trying to compensate

 

[Mr Positive]

Is it possible that Nurse was banged up in playoffs?
Physical limitations can cause brain farts trying to compensate

If I remember right someone was saying that was the case. Some kind of non surgery issue that just needed healing time.

 

[tardigrade81]

It really hasn't though.

He’s a good player, but his turnovers and sometimes defensive play in our zone can be so friggin sloppy it’s painful.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Is it possible that Nurse was banged up in playoffs?
Physical limitations can cause brain farts trying to compensate

Considering hes just finally cleared to play.

I would say he was dealing with a pretty good injury during the playoffs.

 

[Oilslick941611]

I would definitely feel a bit more comfortable if Nurse could get into a game or two here. If he doesn't he's in for a rough first ten games or so and we can't afford to faceplant out of the gate again

Knob already confirmed nurse is playing in Seattle.

I like this coaching staff, they've done a great job, but I think the writing is on the wall with their deployments this preseason and practice pairings that Brown is the clear #6 now. I say "size fetish" because if he is indeed handed a spot despite being outplayed by some others who are smaller, it would lead me believe that him being a bigger Dman in the Desharnais mold with his size and reach is why he's getting the nod over the other guys not because he earned based on merit. I'm sure there will be a rotation in season but I think they want to give Brown the first long look to fill the Vinny role.

You can’t judge how knob coaching in the preseason will affect the season. He already said in an interview that he coaches different in the preseason because you are looking at how different guys play in different situations and you aren’t necessarily coaching to win the game but rather coaching to evaluate players in different situations that they may not be played during the season or in some cases guys who won’t be on the team to get a first hand knowledge of organizational depth. People are reading far too much into little things here and making up problems that may not exist