GDT: Training Camp discussion - Rifai and Murray on waivers -- Steeves clears

[Enniskillen]

why did I read that with Trumps voice in my head?

I read it like it’s the best speech ever. Great club, great player, met him once, love them all.

 

[Nineteen67]

Unknown? Until they show something different, we all know exactly what they are as a playoff team.

I for one, am ready for something different.

You never know, but 7 years of the same and one miss wasn’t an accident.

 

[Antropovsky]

I dont think Murray gets through. Hed be a great pickup for Edmonton, considering their playoff tending. If they have the space.

 

[Buds17]

I dont think Murray gets through. Hed be a great pickup for Edmonton, considering their playoff tending. If they have the space.

It'd be a plausible yet risky proposition for a playoff team just because he didn't take to the ice for an NHL game at all last season.

 

[Antropovsky]

It'd be a plausible yet risky proposition for a playoff team just because he didn't take to the ice for an NHL game at all last season.

He looked pretty good in preseason.

 

[Buds17]

He looked pretty good in preseason.

Depending upon how much stock teams put into preseason hockey and their overall need at the position, yes.

 

[Rude Dog]

I think the leafs are a very good regular season team

They were an ot goal away from getting into the 2nd round in consecutive years with 88 and 34 missing games. Thats almost like climbing Everest for this team. Can’t wait to be at the Cup banner raising ceremony. Gonna happen any decade now.

 

[bansheebeat]

I like Rifai as much as the next guy, but he's a defensive Dman who's played 2 whole games in the NHL. That's a massive gamble for any team to take. I just don't see him getting claimed.

 

[Antropovsky]

Depending upon how much stock teams put into preseason hockey and their overall need at the position, yes.

Pickard... or 6'5, two time Stanley cup winner, on @900,000 contract. After the rickety play by their goalies last playoffs. Id make it happen, personally.

 

[notDatsyuk]

What do Habs fans have to say now?

Did any of them mention that Pare is from Quebec City (well, Levis, a suburb)?

 

[Apex Predator]

I could be wrong but the last few seasons I hear about all this depth we have but by season ends it turns out the depth we thought we had wasn’t good.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Maple Leafs place Matt Murray on waivers: Is a signing bonus enough to keep him in Toronto? - The Athletic

TORONTO - Getting depth goaltenders through the waiver wire is among the most unpredictable tasks NHL teams face in the days leading up to the regular season. An ill-timed injury, poor training camp performance or even a drawn-out contract negotiation elsewhere could prompt a rival to pluck your No. 3 just before opening night and weaken your organization at a key position.

The Toronto Maple Leafs know this well, having lost Curtis McElhinney and Calvin Pickard to waivers on the same day before the 2018-19 season and then Aaron Dell under the same circumstances ahead of the 2021-22 campaign.

So they’ve come up with a creative solution to try and keep it from happening again.

Included in the $875,000 contract the Leafs gave veteran Matt Murray over the summer is a $100,000 signing bonus due this Thursday, according to league sources — a pending payment that could serve as a disincentive for another team to put a claim in on Murray after he was exposed to the waiver wire Sunday afternoon.

Teams have until 2 p.m. ET on Monday to decide if they’ll grab the two-time Stanley Cup winner coming off a lost season following bilateral hip surgery.

If someone really likes Murray and has a gaping need, the signing bonus likely won’t be enough to scare them away. But for those weighing whether it’s worth taking a flier on the 30-year-old with a long history of health challenges, it’s another data point to consider — especially with cheaper depth goaltending options Jiři Patera (Boston), Brandon Bussi (Boston), Devin Cooley (Calgary), Olivier Rodrigue (Edmonton), Marcus Högberg (N.Y. Islanders) and Pheonix Copley (Los Angeles) among the other players also on waivers.

Toronto used a similarly structured contract to get veteran goaltender Martin Jones through waivers unclaimed last October and it ended up paying dividends. Jones was recalled from the American Hockey League in early December and never returned after Joseph Woll suffered a significant ankle injury — making 22 appearances for the Leafs while posting an 11-8-1 record.

 

[bax]

I think it sends a terrible message if Robertson isn't in the starting lineup on Wed. I'd think that would be worse than not starting Spezza in his first game. Also, his family is flying in to watch him in that game

They mentioned on the broadcast during the last game he’ll be in the lineup and his family is coming to the game.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

They should make the playoffs but after that they’re an unknown. There’s hope, but no one can assume they’ll be competitive. The core have never dictated who wins the series and rely on the opposition to determine the outcome.

If their stars get pushed out again they won’t win. It’s that simple.

They’re not an unknown. They are remarkably consistent in the postseason. Out in round one.

 

[Racer88]

I could be wrong but the last few seasons I hear about all this depth we have but by season ends it turns out the depth we thought we had wasn’t good.

Sad but true

 

[conFABulator]

I could be wrong but the last few seasons I hear about all this depth we have but by season ends it turns out the depth we thought we had wasn’t good.

Well, we have been one of the best teams in the NHL over the past several years, so I don't know about our depth not being good...at least relative to other teams which is all that matters.

I have more of an issue with our balance than our depth. I don't like us stacking two lines and one PP unit. It's too easy to shut down and we don't score in the playoffs and this is why we lose.

I really would like to see our core four forwards spread across three lines rather than two. If our depth scoring is also spread across three lines rather than expected to make up the third line I think we show better also.

What does it look like coming out of camp?

Knies Matthews Marner
Domi Tavares Nylander
Pacioretty Holmberg Robertson

That's our six best forwards on the top two lines. Our PP will be the core four + hopefully OEL, possibly Reilly again.

Balance would look like...

Knies Matthews Marner
Domi Holmberg Nylander
Pacioretty Tavares Robertson

PP1
Matthews
Marner
Knies
Robertson
OEL

PP2
Matthews
Domi
Tavares
Nylander
Reilly

Why not?

 

[Guided by Veseys]

is there room for Cowan to get some games to start the season?

 

[VanW27]

Well, we have been one of the best teams in the NHL over the past several years, so I don't know about our depth not being good...at least relative to other teams which is all that matters.

I have more of an issue with our balance than our depth. I don't like us stacking two lines and one PP unit. It's too easy to shut down and we don't score in the playoffs and this is why we lose.

I really would like to see our core four forwards spread across three lines rather than two. If our depth scoring is also spread across three lines rather than expected to make up the third line I think we show better also.

What does it look like coming out of camp?

Knies Matthews Marner
Domi Tavares Nylander
Pacioretty Holmberg Robertson

That's our six best forwards on the top two lines. Our PP will be the core four + hopefully OEL, possibly Reilly again.

Balance would look like...

Knies Matthews Marner
Domi Holmberg Nylander
Pacioretty Tavares Robertson

PP1
Matthews
Marner
Knies
Robertson
OEL

PP2
Matthews
Domi
Tavares
Nylander
Reilly

Why not?

It's "too easy to shut down" because our stars are crap in the playoffs.

Basically by trying to balance the lineup like that you're saying "we know the big guys won't produce, let's try and win despite that fact!"

Which is probably a valid take but management has committed to them over and over. So if that's managements stance they have no real choice but to hope they figure it out and play to the level their supposed to in the playoffs.

Maybe they make it out if the first round an extra time or two with a more balanced approach but the team isn't good enough to go deep without Matty/Marner giving us MacKinnon/Rantanen type of playoff performance. So pray for a miracle I guess.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Maple Leafs place Matt Murray on waivers: Is a signing bonus enough to keep him in Toronto? - The Athletic

TORONTO - Getting depth goaltenders through the waiver wire is among the most unpredictable tasks NHL teams face in the days leading up to the regular season. An ill-timed injury, poor training camp performance or even a drawn-out contract negotiation elsewhere could prompt a rival to pluck your No. 3 just before opening night and weaken your organization at a key position.

The Toronto Maple Leafs know this well, having lost Curtis McElhinney and Calvin Pickard to waivers on the same day before the 2018-19 season and then Aaron Dell under the same circumstances ahead of the 2021-22 campaign.

So they’ve come up with a creative solution to try and keep it from happening again.

Included in the $875,000 contract the Leafs gave veteran Matt Murray over the summer is a $100,000 signing bonus due this Thursday, according to league sources — a pending payment that could serve as a disincentive for another team to put a claim in on Murray after he was exposed to the waiver wire Sunday afternoon.

Teams have until 2 p.m. ET on Monday to decide if they’ll grab the two-time Stanley Cup winner coming off a lost season following bilateral hip surgery.

If someone really likes Murray and has a gaping need, the signing bonus likely won’t be enough to scare them away. But for those weighing whether it’s worth taking a flier on the 30-year-old with a long history of health challenges, it’s another data point to consider — especially with cheaper depth goaltending options Jiři Patera (Boston), Brandon Bussi (Boston), Devin Cooley (Calgary), Olivier Rodrigue (Edmonton), Marcus Högberg (N.Y. Islanders) and Pheonix Copley (Los Angeles) among the other players also on waivers.

Toronto used a similarly structured contract to get veteran goaltender Martin Jones through waivers unclaimed last October and it ended up paying dividends. Jones was recalled from the American Hockey League in early December and never returned after Joseph Woll suffered a significant ankle injury — making 22 appearances for the Leafs while posting an 11-8-1 record.

I dunno, but if I were a GM and another GM called me and said they had a gaping need, I think I would say Bowman get off the phone you're drunk

 

[VanW27]

is there room for Cowan to get some games to start the season?

Maybe, he definitely didn't play well enough to earn some games though.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

is there room for Cowan to get some games to start the season?

I dont think he's earned a spot to be honest... I think he'll be here soon but just not this year IMO.

 

[Tak7]

I dont think he's earned a spot to be honest... I think he'll be here soon but just not this year IMO.

Agreed.

He didn't look ready at the prospects camp early in the year, so I'm not really surprised he won't be making the team this year. The spanner in all of this though is that he's clearly WAY too good for London and the OHL at the moment.

Shame they can't get him to the Marlies.

 

[Nineteen67]

is there room for Cowan to get some games to start the season?

He didn’t attend his junior camp this year so he was starting at the same level has everyone else. A lot times junior players attend their team camp before the nhl camp and come in a step ahead and look like the should play.

He didn’t make it impossible to send him down but if the cap allowed it would have been nice to let him hang around for a few games to make him hungry for more.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I could be wrong but the last few seasons I hear about all this depth we have but by season ends it turns out the depth we thought we had wasn’t good.

What do Domi, Kampf, Jarnkrok, Reaves, McMann, Dewar, and Knies have in common with Nylander?

Their salaries all add up to what he makes. Let that one sink in for a moment. The entire bottom half of the roster earns what the second line winger does.

A good rule of thumb is to not pay your top four wingers more than your top four defensemen.

The Leafs are paying their entire defensive corps just over $22.5M. They have that much in two wingers alone. To accommodate the core the Leafs have been forced to gut the team.

Thinking backing up good players with bad players is called depth.

Looking at the roster I'm struck by how much worse they just might be than last year. That's what adding over the hill veterans on retirement deals will do. The core still hasn't been changed even though it was them who mainly failed to do what they're here for.

They all get an $11M endless free ride.

 

[Tak7]

Maple Leafs place Matt Murray on waivers: Is a signing bonus enough to keep him in Toronto? - The Athletic

Maybe I'm missing something here, BUT:

Would a GM who is spending $80m in salaries, and an owner spending millions more on operational costs a year, really care about the $100k signing bonus.

Kept hearing last year how the Martin Jones "poison pill" was pure genius, and I'm left thinking: it's only $100k. Surely that's not enough to dissuade teams who really want these players, to actually claim them?

Can't wrap my head around it