Trades that were offered but rejected that had a major Butterfly Effect

[themelkman]

At the 2015 Draft, the Blues and Sharks almost made a trade that would’ve altered both franchises.

To SJ:
Kevin Shattenkirk
T.J. Oshie

To STL:
Tomas Hertl
9th OV (which ended up being Timo Meier)


Only reason it didn’t go through is because SJ really liked Meier at 9 OV

I dont remember that being true. I rememeber talk of the 9th for Oshie but the sharks were always in love with Hertl I doubt they ever offered him.

 

[MS]

In 1984, Vancouver and Quebec agreed on a deal that would send Rick Lanz to the Nordiques and Dale Hunter to Vancouver. Both GMs thought it was a done deal and then Quebec's ownership stepped in and nixed the deal at the last minute.

Aside from the craziness of Dale Hunter as a Canuck, there are two very obvious butterfly effects down the line if this deal had gone through :

1) If Vancouver has a young Dale Hunter, they almost certainly don't trade Cam Neely (and the Glen Wesley pick) to Boston for Barry Pederson in an attempt to shore themselves up down the middle.

2) If Dale Hunter stays in Quebec, he isn't traded 3 years later for the pick that becomes Joe Sakic, and Sakic is never a Nordique/Avalanche.

 

[Dr Robot]

In 2007 the Blues offered the 13th, 18th, 27th overall picks for 1st(Kane).

When Shattenkirk was traded from the blues the offers were:
To Edmonton for Taylor Hall for an extended Shattenkirk. He refused to sign.
There was rumor either ARZ or SJ were interested.
To BOS but the ask was Pastrnak. Boston declined.
To TB for Drouin but they couldn't work out a contract extension.

 

[kingpest19]

Maybe not a long term butterfly effect, but Philadelphia thought they were getting Ray Bourque at the 2000 deadline. Allegedly Boston GM Harry Sinden disliked the idea of Bourque chasing a Cup on a rival Eastern Conference team. Bourque wanted to be moved to Philadelphia so he could still be somewhat close to his family. Philadelphia played in Boston a couple days before the eventual trade went down and Bourque thought there was a chance he was going to join the Flyers on the flight back.

But eventually Boston gave Colorado GM Pierre Lacroix permission to talk to Bourque and he accepted them as a destination.

I think the Philadelphia offer was Daymond Langkow (in the midst of a breakout season), a 1st round pick, plus a choice of Mark Eaton (stay at home D) or Andy Delmore (offensive minded D who struggled in his own end).

Boston, who also included Dave Andreychuk, took Colorado's offer of Brian Rolston (year removed from a breakout year but was struggling badly that season), prospects Sami Pahlsson / Martin Grenier, and a 1st round pick.

Because of the timing, Philadelphia wasn't able to add anybody on the back end for the playoff run. They were a game away from the SCF. Bourque could have put them over the top.

And then I don't know if Colorado wins the 2001 Cup without Bourque.

------------------

Maybe a smaller one. I can't seem to find definite proof that it happened, but I vaguely recall that the Kings/Sharks had a 2007 deadline deal in place to send Rob Blake for Evgeni Nabokov. At the time, Vesa Toskala had taken over as the starting goalie so Nabokov was viewed as expendable. That was the season where LA used five goalies (Garon/Burke/Cloutier/Brust/Fukufuji).

As I remember it, Blake used his NTC to block the deal. He had just signed back in LA and wasn't ready to leave after several months.

Nabokov would win back the starting job and Toskala would be the one traded instead at the ensuing draft which led to San Jose drafting Logan Couture. Blake would end up signing in San Jose in the summer of 2008.

But imagine a world where the Sharks proceeded with Toskala and don't have the picks to draft Couture. Meanwhile in LA, does Nabokov improve them enough in 2007-08 that they aren't in a position to draft Drew Doughty?

I may be wrong but I think the Blake for Nabokov rumor was 2008. IIRC and it was 2008, he was going to be a UFA and blocked the trade only to sign with them in July, causing all the hate from the fans

 

[ICanMotteBelieveIt]

The Rangers proposed an offer that reportedly included Tony Amonte, Alex Kovalev, Sergei Nemchinov, James Patrick, and their choice of John Vanbiesbrouck or Mike Richter along with several first round draft picks and as much as $20 million for Lindros.

Got rejected by the league though.

The question is what would've happened if the original trade didn't go through and this happened.

Peter Forsberg wouldn't been on Colorado.

Would the Rangers have won the cup in '94, who knows. Maybe they would've won more, maybe they wouldn't have won a single cup.

 

[Moose Head]

About the Lecavalier to Montreal rumors, those were legit. I forgot exactly what was offered by the Habs (pretty sure Price was in the package). I believe the deal was accepted by both GMs but Tampa's owner (or the league?) vetoed it as the team was in the process of being sold and losing Lecavalier would have made the team less attractive to buyers.

Bolts had two owners. One ok’d the trade. The other vetoed it. Bettman squashed the deal on the request of the owner who wanted it vetoed.

Also it was a pretty significant package from what I recall. TB would have easily won the deal

Lawton leaked the names involved and I recall Gainey going ballistic

 

[Brodeur]

I may be wrong but I think the Blake for Nabokov rumor was 2008. IIRC and it was 2008, he was going to be a UFA and blocked the trade only to sign with them in July, causing all the hate from the fans

I think the Blake for Nabokov one was from 2007 since San Jose still had Vesa Toskala. They traded Toskala at the 2007 Draft and used the picks to draft Logan Couture. Nabokov had reclaimed the starting gig in the 2007 playoffs.

In the 2007-08 season, Nabokov started 76 games for San Jose and finished 2nd in the Vezina voting. So I don't think they were looking to trade him in 2008. Although maybe they kicked the tires one more time on Blake; San Jose traded Steve Bernier + late 1st to rent Brian Campbell at that deadline.

DON’T FIGHT IT

THAT was the es sence of hockey in Buffalo on Thurs day, and that always will be the essence of hockey no matter how deeply committed Gary Bettman and his administration are to the misguided missio…

nypost.com

NY Post article from February 2007:

The Sharks, who offered Evgeni Nabokov to Philadelphia as part of the package in return for Peter Forsberg, continue to dangle the netminder. Sources have told Slap Shots that GM Doug Wilson has had discussions with L.A.’s Dean Lombardi about a deal that would send Nabokov there in exchange for defenseman Rob Blake. Nabokov has three years at a salary-cap-charge of $5.375 million remaining on his contract. Blake, who is believed willing to waive his no-trade in order to escape a rebuilding situation, has one year at $6 million remaining on his deal.

 

[StreetHawk]

Refusing to trade inter-division when there's a better offer to be had one of the dumbest mistakes a GM can make, it's the main reason why Ottawa is as perpetually bad as they are.

SJ dealt kipper to Calgary who later beat SJ in the WCF in 2004. The one position that can haunt you within division or conference depending on how PO are set up is goaltender.

Any other position you can trade them anywhere.

The extra 2 assets from Edm, Musil not much to write home about. The second round pick in 2013 the best 2nd rounders who had good nhl careers went in the final 1/4 of round 2. Lehkonen, Bertuzzi, Sanford. That group fo 15 guys from the Edm pick to lehkonen not much to talk about.

 

[Bizz]

SJ dealt kipper to Calgary who later beat SJ in the WCF in 2004. The one position that can haunt you within division or conference depending on how PO are set up is goaltender.

Any other position you can trade them anywhere.

The extra 2 assets from Edm, Musil not much to write home about. The second round pick in 2013 the best 2nd rounders who had good nhl careers went in the final 1/4 of round 2. Lehkonen, Bertuzzi, Sanford. That group fo 15 guys from the Edm pick to lehkonen not much to talk about.

Kiprusoff wasn't very good when he was here and was behind Nabokov and Toskala on the depth chart.

 

[Paper]

Flames wanted to trade Nieuwendyk to Dallas for Todd Harvey but the Stars wouldn't budge. Instead they had to settle for some other random prospect.

Flames then trade for some third stringer no-name because Sutter knew about him from his days in San Jose.

And those trades kept the Flames in Calgary as without the reason to see Iginla in 2002 and the 2004 run on the back of Kiprusoff, the Flames (whose owners were literally crying like real tears pleading for season ticket holders) would have followed Winnipeg and Quebec. (Also thanks to Bettman for saving the remaining small market Canadian teams).

 

[Chuck Norris Trophy]

Amazing thread, thank you for everyone who contributed.

 

[Paper]

No mention of Yzerman for Yashin? Rumoured the owners of Detroit nixed that one.

 

[Paper]

From Quebec when he refused to play there ?

It wasn't even a rumour. The Nordiques somehow traded Lindros twice (verbal agreements) but wanted the Rangers deal. They had to bring in an arbitrator, which ended up being Todd Bertuzzi's great uncle lawyer. He sided with the Flyers.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I remeber I offered Pittsburgh fans to trade their young good defensman Olli Maatta for that Tampa winger Nikita K, who even wasn't in the NHL. Of course Pens fans refused.

As to the butterfly effect, both teams won 4 cups between them after that...

 

[Paper]

Just commenting to remember to check in for whenever someone brings up the Mythical Lecavalier trade offer from the Habs. I think most recently I heard about it, the (almost certainly bullshit) rumor was that the Habs offered Price, Subban, MaxPac and a 1st. I'd be interested to see what ludicrous value it has risen to now.

Lecavalier to Montreal was true. Gainey talked about it shortly after it fell through, Lecavalier confirmed earlier this year that he approved a trade but the owners in Tampa disagreed and it fell through. The pieces involved though were likely Plekanec as the centerpiece and not Price and Subban lol.

 

[Voight]

There was supposedly a deal on the table between Tampa and NYR to send Stamkos to NY in return for some of their young guys at the time (I think I've heard some combination of Callahan, Dubinsky, and Girardi as the pieces coming back) proposed by one of the owners at the time. The other owner and GM stepped in, and I believe the league had to get involved as well.

The OK hockey era was a f***ing trip.

Rangers had done deal for Stamkos

SUNRISE, Fla. — It may sound like a fish story, but if so, then Glen Sather sure has come up with a whopper. The Rangers’ GM told Slap Shots on Thursday that he “shook hands&#8221…

nypost.com

No kidding..... none of those were top prospects..... it even worse in retrospect.

 

[Paper]

And not a trade but the Bure draft. Detroit was all lined up to draft him but got told by the league that he was ineligible, then a round later Canucks draft him and show proof of two games he played.

Really ruined the 1989 draft for the Red Wings as they could have walked away with Sillinger, Boughner, Lidstrom, Federov, Bure, Drake, and Konstantinov that year.

 

[Voight]

The infamous Luongo to Toronto trade that never happened.

Gillis wanted Kadri (who was about to have his breakout season with 44 points in 48 games), Gardiner had a strong rookie year with 30 points in 76 games and the two first round picks I presume would have been in 2013 & 2014.

Maple Leafs went on to make the playoffs in 2013 with Reimer, then regressed and drafted Nylander 8th in 2014 before ownership approved a complete teardown in early 2015 - leading them to be bad enough to draft Marner and then Matthews. Even w/o Kadri and Gardiner theres a chance they still make the playoffs in 2013, however who knows what happens after. Do they go all in with a solid goalie in net? Either way they may not be bad enough to land Nylander/Marner/Matthews.

 

[Soundgarden]

In June of '14 Nashville had a deal in place to trade Hornqvist + 11th OV (Kevin Fiala) to Dallas for Jason Spezza but he rejected it and we ultimately traded Hornqvist and Nick Spaling to Pittsburgh for James Neal, the two teams would face each other in the 2017 Cup Finals.

This brings about a couple what if scenarios for our cup run:

1. Do we still trade Jones for Johansen?

When we were shopping Jones the rumored centers available were Johansen coming off a 70 point season and a 30+30+60 season, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Leon Draisaitl who was coming off a 2 goal, 9 point rookie season.
With Jason Spezza and Mike Fisher, we could have afforded to bring up Draisaitl instead of counting on Ryan Johansen immediately. It worked out pretty well for us, but obviously in hindsight Draisaitl would be the right guy.

2. Do we replace Johansen with Spezza instead of Freddy "The 1st liner" Gaudreau in the Finals?

Assuming we do trade for Johansen and he gets injured before the '17 Finals, Spezza has to play big minutes instead of Gaudreau and a young Colton Sissons. Right?
Side note, Kevin Fiala was also injured prior to our finals series, while he hadn't broken out entirely he did have 2 goals in four games vs Chicago.

3. With Hornqvist in Dallas, does Pittsburgh still win the cup?

Hornqvist had 9 points in Pittsburgh's cup run, but the biggest contribution was the game winning goal in the cup clinching game. I'm sure somebody would step up for them, but if the Spezza trade had gone through both Pittsburgh and Nashville look a bit different.

 

[Lays]

Michael Del Zotto and Evgeny Grachev for Steven Stamkos was shaken on by Glen Sather and the Bolts co-owner some time around Stamkos’ rookie season. The other co-owner shot the deal down immediately. Rangers win a cup in the 2010’s if that trade had happened. Stamkos was the exact piece those early 2010 teams were missing

 

[Vachon23]

For Habs fans, the Vinny trade in 2009 was major. It was the talk in town

 

[The Nuge]

That one went like two or three or four different ways before it finally died. We first heard about it down here as a means of them picking up the #4 overall that year. I never was sure what to believe w/r/t some of those supposed offers.

We know for sure the Habs wanted Draisaitl, 4th overall, and either Klefbom or Nurse. The other pieces that get thrown around are pretty secondary in comparison and likely just depends on where in the negotiations things were leaking out

 

[Juxtaposer]

At the 2015 Draft, the Blues and Sharks almost made a trade that would’ve altered both franchises.

To SJ:
Kevin Shattenkirk
T.J. Oshie

To STL:
Tomas Hertl
9th OV (which ended up being Timo Meier)


Only reason it didn’t go through is because SJ really liked Meier at 9 OV

Yup, I came to post this one, which could have been absolutely bonkers. If the Sharks had Oshie and Shattenkirk, do they win the 2016 Stanley Cup? I think there’s a good chance they do, as our main pitfalls were Hertl getting injured in the Finals game 1 (leading to Donskoi replacing him on the top line, decimating the rest of our depth) and Roman Polak absolutely tanking our third pair. If Oshie had replaced Hertl on the Thornton-Pavelski line and stayed healthy, and Dillon-Shattenkirk had been our third pair, I like our chances.

That said, if that trade had gone through and we’d still lost, we’d be in twice the shambles we are now (Hertl and Meier are quite literally our only good players).

 

[MessierII]

Another oilers one that almost happened was the Heatley trade.

Oilers and Ottawa agreed to a deal to send Heatley to Edmonton before having to pay his 4 million dollar bonus for Dustin Penner, Andrew Cogliano and Ladislav Smid. Heatley refused to waive his no trade and they ended up having to pay the bonus and later traded him with a 5th for Cheechoo, Milan Michalek and a 2nd.

Major change of course for all 3 franchises.

 

[Patty Ice]

Kiprusoff wasn't very good when he was here and was behind Nabokov and Toskala on the depth chart.

He shouldn't have been. Strelow thought he was the most talented of the 3 and Sutter was quick to trade for him.