Trades & Free Agency Thread: Off-season Edition

[WTFMAN99]

Toronto inflation

Larsson just got 4 years and 25M and he's like 2 years older than McCabe.

 

[Martin Skoula]

This is all valid, and I used.to agree quite strongly with this position.

But a lesson I've seemed to pick up in recent years is just grab the player you want and find a way to deal with it if/when it becomes an issue. Vegas for example hasn't let contract stuff stop them from making necessary moves they get who the need to get and then do what they need to clear room. The Leafs haven't let guys like Robidas, Muzzin, Murray stop them either.

And you're right that we can't necessarily assume that the team will be rebuilding. Id wager Matthews is likely going to finish his career with the Leafs - but the fact is he's also only signed for the next 4 seasons at present - those years obviously need to be prioritized for competitiveness rather than the longer 5,6,7,8 year period.

Muzzin was an issue though, his second last year he wasn’t LTIR material until the start of the season and we didn’t spend his money in UFA because of it. The way people talk about LTIR for the back half of contracts, it’s like they expect the player to be perfectly healthy for 4 the first for years and take a single hit in the last game of year 4 that perma-LTIRs them. The reality is you’re probably looking at 2 good years, 2 decline years with a lot of short term injuries, and 2 years of on and off LTIR stints that don’t let you spend money and trade assets on anything but a temporary gap filler like Lyubushkin.

Brodie and Muzzin’s second contract gave us enough headaches to know better at this point. It’s a good risk to take if you’re getting an impact player but the reason McCabe cost us so much was that we got him at 2mil for a couple years, he isn’t a core piece on the blueline.

 

[Roo]

Larsson just got 4 years and 25M and he's like 2 years older than McCabe.

He is just under one year older, but yes, very comparable deal. Larsson as a RHD should be valued a bit higher too.

 

[-DeMo-]

don't really see a reason why we need to lockup McCabe now. he wont transform his game this year where if we try and sign him next off season that he would be in a position to demand a much higher salary. lets see how the additions of Tanev/OEL and another year of Liljegren, espicially because imo our biggest need on the back end is that of a long term top pairing guy still, even the most optimistic Leafs fans believe Tanev will begin to decline in 2 years and therefore he's really just a stop gap on the top pairing.

if you commit 5 million to McCabe now with 4.5 with Tanev, 7.5 to Rielly, 3.5 to OEL how can you also afford to add a top pairing guy with all that money on defense.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

not understanding the McCabe hate.
Guy has strong results at 5v5 playing the most minutes outside of Rielly and Brodie both in terms of GF% and xGF% (usually with tougher usage as well). Paces for around 25 points without PP time and plays with a good edge which is a bonus. Guy is a top 4 D all day long!

When a guy like Zadorov makes what he makes on the open market, McCabe is definitely worth that projected contract.

 

[WTFMAN99]

He is just under one year older, but yes, very comparable deal. Larsson as a RHD should be valued a bit higher too.

It's close, McCabe can play both sides and is a bit more physical.

Did Seattle recently move to lower state taxes too?

 

[hamzarocks]

The leafs hopefully get a cup in next 4 years

We will have 4-5 untradable assets in 4 years when Matthews is up again (he will likely get a bad deal at 8 yeara if he does extend back)

Tanev
McCabe
Nylander
Marner if extended

We need to win in this window, as a rebuild after will be super tough with MM ajd WN being in early 30s making 11.5 and 12-13M while actively declining

Hopefully cowan+minten+greb+danford+a surprise prospect or two can be good supporting depth players from next year out, giving us 3 chances to win the cup with cheap high performing ELC talent

 

[Rare Jewel]

McCabe literally carried a cast-off from a lottery team in Benoit and made him look borderline second-pair calibre, he also handled hard match-ups in the playoffs quite well and was the most reliable d-man in the elimination games (5-7).

I don't know if he carried him; Benoit himself did well to show he's a decent depth NHL Dman, even though he's been around 20 minutes as much as he was.

But that's the state the Dcore is in; it needs help from anyone.

I wouldn't dispute he has his merits; as I said above, around 4x3 is where I'd have him, but that type of player for that long (6 years proposed), especially, no thanks. Tanev is already here under these conditions, and we don't know when he'll have his Hainsey-like drop-off will occur, so to have two of them, nah.

 

[Rare Jewel]

That's really not supported by anything. He's shown to be a good second pairing defenseman, regardless of strength of team or partner.

It's supported by the fact that when I look at the contending teams around the league and try to find where I think McCabe would fit among them, very few teams would have him in their top four.

I think there's maybe 2. But they have guys on par with him or cheaper.

 

[ULF_55]

It's close, McCabe can play both sides and is a bit more physical.

Did Seattle recently move to lower state taxes too?

Net $5mm

Washington State: $3,066,377
Ontario: $2,362,498

 

[Knies iT]

I can stomach most of the AAVs being thrown around for McCabe because he’s a versatile cornerstone on the current blue line, but it’s the term.

6 years means paying McCabe until he’s what, 38? Not to mention Tanev until like 40, OEL until 37.

There needs to be some middle ground age wise in our top 4, otherwise we are guaranteeing this to be the last window.

 

[Dreakmur]

It's close, McCabe can play both sides and is a bit more physical.

Did Seattle recently move to lower state taxes too?

Larsson has been a top-4 defenseman for a decade, and a top-2 defenseman for a large chunk of that. Over the past 3 years, Larsson has played the 2nd most non-PP time among all NHL defensemen. (Parayko-23:03, Larsson-22:48, Doughty, 22:47, Toews-22:46)

McCabe is not in that category, not even close.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I can stomach most of the AAVs being thrown around for McCabe because he’s a versatile cornerstone on the current blue line, but it’s the term.

6 years means paying McCabe until he’s what, 38? Not to mention Tanev until like 40, OEL until 37.

There needs to be some middle ground age wise in our top 4, otherwise we are guaranteeing this to be the last window.

I mean if we can't win anything in this window its not like the next one's going to be any different.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[ACC1224]

Death threats?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Larsson has been a top-4 defenseman for a decade, and a top-2 defenseman for a large chunk of that. Over the past 3 years, Larsson has played the 2nd most non-PP time among all NHL defensemen. (Parayko-23:03, Larsson-22:48, Doughty, 22:47, Toews-22:46)

McCabe is not in that category, not even close.

I don't love it but I am sure the cap going up is going to be the excuse etc, I said on the other page, if Marcus Pettersson is available, 28 years old, I take him over McCabe all day.

McCabe is a very generic/average 2nd pair defenseman.

 

[Sypher04]

I don't love it but I am sure the cap going up is going to be the excuse etc, I said on the other page, if Marcus Pettersson is available, 28 years old, I take him over McCabe all day.

McCabe is a very generic/average 2nd pair defenseman.

Luckily 5M is very average 2nd pairing money. Also I think he’s a good physical presence which kinda flies in the face of being generic imo

 

[Menzinger]

Muzzin was an issue though, his second last year he wasn’t LTIR material until the start of the season and we didn’t spend his money in UFA because of it. The way people talk about LTIR for the back half of contracts, it’s like they expect the player to be perfectly healthy for 4 the first for years and take a single hit in the last game of year 4 that perma-LTIRs them. The reality is you’re probably looking at 2 good years, 2 decline years with a lot of short term injuries, and 2 years of on and off LTIR stints that don’t let you spend money and trade assets on anything but a temporary gap filler like Lyubushkin.

Brodie and Muzzin’s second contract gave us enough headaches to know better at this point. It’s a good risk to take if you’re getting an impact player but the reason McCabe cost us so much was that we got him at 2mil for a couple years, he isn’t a core piece on the blueline.

They probably could have been more aggressive at trying to get rid of Muzzins contract through non LTIR means, but didn't feel it was ultimately worth it.

The most likely way the team will need to round out its top 4 will be free agency signings, so the age issue is always going to be present.

Imo a team deciding to not pursuing guys because there may be an issue half a decade from now means losing our on opportunities now.

Its absolutely fair to be concerned about the lasting impact of some of these recent deals, BUT, given the current circumstances of the team, the need for bodies in the next few years deserves by far the most attention versus other priorities (with the acknowledgement that they may blow up in the team's face)

 

[leafsfan2point0]

I don't want to let McCabe walk. I just don't want to keep signing players through their late 30s.

Agreed.

Love the player but his age and play style scare me. I would rather wait a bit into the season to see if he can replicate last year and hope if we can talk him down to 4 years. I do love the fact that he can play both LD and RD. The guy is a warrior and fan favourite.

 

[Martin Skoula]

They probably could have been more aggressive at trying to get rid of Muzzins contract through non LTIR means, but didn't feel it was ultimately worth it.

The most likely way the team will need to round out its top 4 will be free agency signings, so the age issue is always going to be present.

Imo a team deciding to not pursuing guys because there may be an issue half a decade from now means losing our on opportunities now.

Its absolutely fair to be concerned about the blasting impact of some of these recent des, BUT, given the current circumstances of the team, the need for bodies in the next few years deserves by far the most attention versus other priorities (with the acknowledgement that they may blow up in the team's face)

I’m not against the risk per se, just against it for dime a dozen guys. There was a handful of McCabe tier guys available for roughly the same money in UFA that were a couple years younger, it’s not like a 5-6mil 32+ year old McCabe is a hard to find unicorn. 2mil 28 year old McCabe, sure. Prime Muzzin/McDonagh, you pay them whatever it takes because they can anchor a shutdown pair you feel good about putting out against a McDavid/MacKinnon, we reluctantly put out McCabe against those guys.

Flipping McCabe for a pick and signing a younger Roy/Zadorov for similar money was probably the correct play here imo, as much as I would hope that the problems only start in half a decade there’s a strong chance they start the year or two after the ink dries.

 

[WTFMAN99]

It looks like Jett Luchanko has at least made opening night for the Flyers but they seem to have an abundance of centres regardless.

I wonder about a Cates - Liljegren based swap.

 

[SprDaVE]

It looks like Jett Luchanko has at least made opening night for the Flyers but they seem to have an abundance of centres regardless.

I wonder about a Cates - Liljegren based swap.

We have waaaay too many mid line players. I like Cates but Liljegren fits a bigger need? Not sure Cates is an every day center.

 

[WTFMAN99]

We have waaaay too many mid line players. I like Cates but Liljegren fits a bigger need? Not sure Cates is an every day center.

I was thinking 3C - he's fast, good penalty killer, 6'2

Last year was a down year offensively but takes somewhere around 300 face offs but around 44% rate

 

[LeafSteel]

Death threats?

I’m sure it is directly related to the Pare/Laine collision.

Some people have no sense of perspective, and put a keyboard in front of them and it turns into full blown mental dysfunction.

Keyboard morons.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

If Liljegren really has played his way into the doghouse already there’s no point in keeping him as the 7th defenseman at $3 million AAV. He’s a RHD that has good advanced stats, that’s valuable. If Willy at centre is done too the best option is to try to get a similarly aged and priced middle-six Centreman for him.

I still think Liljegren has got more to give but I can’t force Berube and the Leafs to like him or play him.