Trades & Free Agency Thread: 2024-2025 - Trade Deadline Approaches

[ULF_55]

The original post I quoted said trading Nylander for Pietrangelo in 2018 was a bad deal. We have conclusive evidence that Pietrangelo outperformed Nylander since then.

Would he have performed the same on the Leafs?

Of course no one can answer that question, as it requires going back in time, making the trade and then comparing to the other timeline.

However, we can say that in this timeline Pietrangelo won 2 Cups, while McDavid won none, Crosby won none, marner won 1 round, Matthews scored 18 playoffs goals in 42 games and Nylander scored 18 playoff goals in 41 games.

We can also suggest the Leafs have not had as good a defenseman as Pietrangelo for decades.

Thread 'Is Alex Pietrangelo a hall of famer?'

Jun 13, 2023

2 Stanley Cups now. Does he get in?

• toothlessgoon
• Replies: 117
• Forum: Polls - (hockey-related only)

• 
• 

We'll never know what impact he might have made, but we can speculate, which isn't knowing.

 

[Americanadian]

Would he have performed the same on the Leafs?

Of course no one can answer that question, as it requires going back in time, making the trade and then comparing to the other timeline.

However, we can say that in this timeline Pietrangelo won 2 Cups, while McDavid won none, Crosby won none, marner won 1 round, Matthews scored 18 playoffs goals in 42 games and Nylander scored 18 playoff goals in 41 games.

We can also suggest the Leafs have not had as good a defenseman as Pietrangelo for decades.

Thread 'Is Alex Pietrangelo a hall of famer?'

Jun 13, 2023

2 Stanley Cups now. Does he get in?

• toothlessgoon
• Replies: 117
• Forum: Polls - (hockey-related only)

• 
• 

We'll never know what impact he might have made, but we can speculate, which isn't knowing.

If this is the logic we’re using then why do we even have a forum to discuss trades? If we can’t definitely say that having the better player, at the premium position, for similar cost would have been more advantageous - then what can we discuss?

 

[Rare Jewel]

I don't want to throw in the towel. I hope we keep trying and do what we can. Maybe we fluke into something, or get a goalie run. But if management is that stupid and let one of the most important decisions of this era play out that horribly, I don't hold much hope that their subsequent decisions can get us to cup level. With the cap rising and teams more able to keep their players, who knows who will even be available? And if we fall off, I don't know that Matthews stays in 3 years. I dunno, maybe we could go for Rantanen this offseason and minimize the downgrade.

Well, for me, you can't really sign Rantanen if you don't sign Marner. It's the same economic issue that I've been arguing about from the start.

But I also don't want just to blow the money on w/e either; it will be hard if they do opt for change. I would like some creativity and aggressiveness from management in this situation, which I'm not confident about because we share a fair few of the concerns about Treliving and management as a whole.

But I still can't get with the angst of not having him, and despite our back and forth about stats, I do appreciate what he has done as far as the regular season. But I can't help but think about the scenarios if he doesn't stay and what they'll do.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Why would trading Marner on his ELC be better? Marner has been significantly better than Nylander since 2018.

For the record I would have traded both players a long time age. I just don’t understand how trading Nylander for Pietro 6 years ago is a no-go but moving Marner in the same deal would be a good move.

I didn't say that. I said "it may have been better".

As far as Marner being "significantly better than Nylander" that is your opinion, but not a universally shared one. He has produced significantly more assists (but fewer goals) while playing with much better linemates and appreciably more ice time, while also being paid a lot more (almost 30%). Nylander has also been the better playoff performer, which might be significant if we are talking about a 1D who would improve our playoff chances.

If they had drafted Pastrnak instead of Nylander they would have had another 60 goals scorer. If they would have drafted Thomas instead of Liljegren they would have had another point per game C. If they would have drafted Kyrou over Korshkov they would have had another point per game winger. Let me go back through the draft over the last 15 years and I’ll build you the best team in the NHL. What is your point?

Would Pastrnak have scored 60 goals playing on a second line with JT and whoever, instead of on the 'perfection line'?

But I agree - it's all idle speculation.

 

[Americanadian]

I didn't say that. I said "it may have been better".

As far as Marner being "significantly better than Nylander" that is your opinion, but not a universally shared one. He has produced significantly more assists (but fewer goals) while playing with much better linemates and appreciably more ice time, while also being paid a lot more (almost 30%). Nylander has also been the better playoff performer, which might be significant if we are talking about a 1D who would improve our playoff chances.


Would Pastrnak have scored 60 goals playing on a second line with JT and whoever, instead of on the 'perfection line'?

But I agree - it's all idle speculation.

Pastrnak was the only point per game player on the Bruins when he scored 60 so I’m pretty confident he would have.

 

[ULF_55]

If this is the logic we’re using then why do we even have a forum to discuss trades? If we can’t definitely say that having the better player, at the premium position, for similar cost would have been more advantageous - then what can we discuss?

Of course one can do what-ifs and rewrite history, which has nothing to do with speculating what might happen in the future if this, that or the other thing.

Make a speculation today and look back on it in 3-4 years and then thump our chest!

Or we can be disingenuous and claim "I said they should have done X, but I forgot to put it in writing."

 

[notDatsyuk]

By getting a more balanced team... who know what would happen... but no doubt Pietrangelo would had better impact than Nylander when D always been leafs #1 issue. Should get a #1 D who made leafs won a cup, i don't know but he would raised leafs chance for sure

And the problem i saw a lot is when people watching the stats but not the impact a player having on the ice.

Same way than even if Tkachuk had better stats than Barkov, impact of barkov had been much higher than Tkachuk on both time panthers reach the final.

Even if Kessel had better stats than crosby in 2016 run, impact of crosby had been much higher than Kessel.

Sure - similar to Nylander having a bigger impact than Marner.

But I don't think the 'more balanced team' (with Pietrangelo replacing either Marner or Nylander) would be enough of an improvement to compensate for all the other shortcomings. Particularly if you consider that Dubas would almost certainly have paid him a lot more than he paid Nylander, which would have further weakened our depth (Marner not so much).

 

[Americanadian]

Or we can be disingenuous and claim "I said they should have done X, but I forgot to put it in writing."

Do people do this?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Pastrnak was the only point per game player on the Bruins when he scored 60 so I’m pretty confident he would have.

Which wasn't the question, but OK.

 

[Americanadian]

Which wasn't the question, but OK.

You asked if he could score 60 with Tavares. He scored 60 with no one around him producing at a point per game, so yes, I think he could.

 

[ULF_55]

Do people do this?

I do not know for a fact they do, however, we probably know people who do a lot worse ... heck a family and friends that lived around the corner turned out to be hardened life criminals and part of the Balaclava gang. Down the street we had a husband dispatched by his wife. Next door a neighbour was found at the bottom of the cement steps in a pool of blood.

So stretching something so meaningless, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Americanadian]

I do not know for a fact they do, however, we probably know people who do a lot worse ... heck a family and friends that lived around the corner turned out to be hardened life criminals and part of the Balaclava gang. Down the street we had a husband dispatched by his wife. Next door a neighbour was found at the bottom of the cement steps in a pool of blood.

So stretching something so meaningless, I wouldn't be surprised.

Does this mean you disagree that Pietrangelo for Nylander in 2018 would have been a good deal for the Leafs?

 

[notDatsyuk]

You asked if he could score 60 with Tavares. He scored 60 with no one around him producing at a point per game, so yes, I think he could.

Maybe - but the 22-23 season the three Bruins forwards with the most ice time were Pastrnak, Marchand, and Bergeron, so that's still the top line with top players - not the same as second line with JT and whoever.

I noticed you only responded to that small part of my post.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Even if it’s all fumes, Cozens as a trade target fascinates me. Mainly because it’d be the exact opposite of the type of forward this franchise has acquired at the trade deadline since the Matthews era began. Every time we’ve acquired a forward they’ve all been the same archetype, over 30, expiring contract, known for grit and defensive acumen. Boyle, Plekanec, Foligno, and O’Reilly. Even smaller transactions or throw in guys we got Nash, Blackwell, Acciari, and Lafferty were in that mould. The only forward we’ve acquired that wasn’t like this was Galchenyuk.

Cozens is in his mid-20s, is tall and long, and is a skilled scorer. Not gritty or a strong defensive player. But he’s under contract and should be entering/in his prime. His strengths as a player are what this team needs in the lineup, a middle six centre with offensive prowess who can win faceoffs and will elevate our bottom six skilled guys who are on an island down there, unable to be consistent offensive threats with centres like Holmberg, Domi, and a young Minten playing there.

Of course getting Buffalo to part with him would be pulling teeth and again it’s likely fake news. But if this team is going to blow a bunch of futures again, I’d be better able to stomach a deal that gets us a guy in his prime who isn’t going to leave once he’s played 20 some odd regular season games and 7 playoff games.

 

[ULF_55]

Does this mean you disagree that Pietrangelo for Nylander in 2018 would have been a good deal for the Leafs?

It would have been a good deal at the time of the trade, but I'll speculate he would have walked as UFA after the 2019-2020 season.

So 2 years of Pietrangelo for 6 years of Nylander?

 

[Americanadian]

Maybe - but the 22-23 season the three Bruins forwards with the most ice time were Pastrnak, Marchand, and Bergeron, so that's still the top line with top players - not the same as second line with JT and whoever.

He out produced his closest linemate by 46 points. Tavares is producing better offensively this season than any other Bruin that season. I’m not sure your argument has legs here.

I noticed you only responded to that small part of my post.

Lots of subjective drivel that’s been overdone in this forum. I assume since you value goals>>points>>defense you would have preferred Kyle Connor to Nylander and Marner over that same time frame?

It would have been a good deal at the time of the trade, but I'll speculate he would have walked as UFA after the 2019-2020 season.

So 2 years of Pietrangelo for 6 years of Nylander?

I’ll speculate he re-signs. So 10 years of Pietrangelo vs 14 of Nylander. They re-signed all of their other top players so why would Pietrangelo be the exception?

 

[1specter]

I do not know for a fact they do, however, we probably know people who do a lot worse ... heck a family and friends that lived around the corner turned out to be hardened life criminals and part of the Balaclava gang. Down the street we had a husband dispatched by his wife. Next door a neighbour was found at the bottom of the cement steps in a pool of blood.

So stretching something so meaningless, I wouldn't be surprised.

wat

 

[ULF_55]

Maybe - but the 22-23 season the three Bruins forwards with the most ice time were Pastrnak, Marchand, and Bergeron, so that's still the top line with top players - not the same as second line with JT and whoever.

I noticed you only responded to that small part of my post.

Pastrnak and marner are both RW.
Pastrnak was on the 1st. line the past 5 years.
marner was the 1st. line the past 5 years.

On the same team one of them would have been on the 2nd. line.

 

[ULF_55]

He out produced his closest linemate by 46 points. Tavares is producing better offensively this season than any other Bruin that season. I’m not sure your argument has legs here.

Lots of subjective drivel that’s been overdone in this forum. I assume since you value goals>>points>>defense you would have preferred Kyle Connor to Nylander and Marner over that same time frame?


I’ll speculate he re-signs. So 10 years of Pietrangelo vs 14 of Nylander. They re-signed all of their other top players so why would Pietrangelo be the exception?

American family ...

 

[ToneDog]

Pastrnak and marner are both RW.
Pastrnak was on the 1st. line the past 5 years.
marner was the 1st. line the past 5 years.

On the same team one of them would have been on the 2nd. line.

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Leafs paid Marner $4.4 million more than Pasta for the majority of those years. Thank goodness he was not overpaid like some would have you believe.

 

[Americanadian]

Pastrnak and marner are both RW.
Pastrnak was on the 1st. line the past 5 years.
marner was the 1st. line the past 5 years.

On the same team one of them would have been on the 2nd. line.

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It’s crazy that Toronto’s RW2 plays more per game this season than Bostons RW1 did over the last 5 years.

American family ...

Yes - Vegas is famously very closer to St. Louis than Toronto.

 

[ULF_55]

It’s crazy that Toronto’s RW2 plays more per game this season than Bostons RW1 did over the last 5 years.


Yes - Vegas is famously very closer to St. Louis than Toronto.

And I hear clearing US customs is much easier from Canada than from Nevada.

 

[Americanadian]

And I hear clearing US customs is much easier from Canada than from Nevada.

Customs with a nexus is a breeze. I have a nexus card and used to travel between both countries once per month.

Raising your triplets in the same city as one set of grandparents seems more ideal than raising them near no grandparents.

 

[trellaine201]

Can someone tell me do we have any money today and how much could we spend on a player?

 

[thewave]

Leafs paid Marner $4.4 million more than Pasta for the majority of those years. Thank goodness he was not overpaid like some would have you believe.

Am I terrible person for being willing or wanting to trade Marner for Pasta the whole time?

If they told Marner we overpaid you for performance see Pasta. He would say too bad sucker's. If we underpaid, he would whine and complain and already did about bonuses