Trades & Free Agency Thread: 2024-2025 - Trade Deadline Approaches

[All Mod Cons]

Wow, I'm pissed we missed on Granlund. This would have transformed our team. Perfect center for Nylander. There is no center available better than Granlund. Dallas is showing why they are an elite franchise.

We don't have a 1st.

 

[WTFMAN99]

For those that had interest in Granlund...maybe Novak is a lower priced target?

 

[SprDaVE]

Agree with you on Gourde. I didn't really like the idea of trading for him before, didn't hate it either... now I think it's a bad idea altogether, unless it's a deep discount given the risk, but why does Seattle do that?

Oleksiak doesn't seem to play well at all, either side right now... but he has played RD competently in the past. His stats are the worst of the Seattle D...

My thoughts exactly, edited my post to say his injury scares me..

Domi - Matthews - Marner
Knies - JT - Willy
McMan - Gourde - Jankrok
Tanev - Kampf - Loretnz

Looks awfully better then what we would be running if we didn't add any forwards at the deadline.

I think Gourde is pretty good and would be an upgrade if/when healthy. Consdering what's left out there, I think he makes some sense. But he just got surgery here... Seattle can do him a favour to go for a cup but I certainly don't think the Leafs need to go all in on him. The risk is all on the Leafs, and he's not cheap either.

Put Pacioretty on the Gourde and Jarnkrok line --- the IR line.

 

[Fogelhund]

We all throw out our ideas, and while we won't agree all the time, it's always interesting.

Move out Robertson, Reaves, Timmins, Holmberg/Dewar (Take your pick) as roster players going.

Incoming, Jordan Greenway (50%), Krebs, Gudas.

Greenway doesn't have much value, hasn't worked out in Buffalo.. but he'd be an upgrade on our 4th line.
Buffalo getting anything for him at this point is a bonus, he's a UFA, and he won't resign there is my bet.

Krebs I like, as I think he has more upside outside of Buffalo, like most players who escape, is a young C, with control as he's a RFA.

Gudas plays the game hard, legit RD, on a bad team that isn't going anywhere, and the contract isn't terrible to absorb. I think he'd work well with Mo.

I'd love to pick up a second line LW as well, but I just don't see that happening... not enough assets, maybe not enough cap, and I don't see Tre being active enough for that to happen. If you are doing a deal with Ducks, Vatrano would be a nice add, but I don't know that we could afford that, and they just extended him.

No direct trade proposals, we end up giving up more than just the roster players, but not going to pretend to know exact values.

 

[Puckstuff]

We don't have a 1st.

I think they could have gotten it done for a deal starting with Minten, Cowan or a 2026 1st

 

[Fogelhund]

He's on it... believe me.

PS, do not disturb... nap time.

 

[jaric1862]

Based on what we've heard the Leafs are interested in:

- Center
- Player with term
- "Berube" type player
- Good on both sides of the puck.

To me, the one guy still on the market that fits this Criteria is Scott Laughton. He could be a bit better offensively, but he checks all other boxes.

 

[Americanadian]

Based on what we've heard the Leafs are interested in:

- Center
- Player with term
- "Berube" type player
- Good on both sides of the puck.

To me, the one guy still on the market that fits this Criteria is Scott Laughton. He could be a bit better offensively, but he checks all other boxes.

He is poor defensively and doesn’t play C.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I'm not too sure who you're replying too because I think I ignored whoever it is lol.

At some point, I gave up talking to a brick wall.

Ah, that would be Dekes.

And the ongoing issue of keeping the core together at any cost.

 

[thusk]

Trading a top pick/value for a guy that just got surgery would be peak Leafs. I do like Tanev but he's an expensive 4th liner..

Oleksiak could make sense if they retain 50%, especially if he can play RD well. I've only seen him play LD though.

Always depending of the price and a lot of thing could change.

Exemple is NYI is 6 pts from playoff spot, good chance they traded nelson and exemple would affect gourde value ...

 

[Rare Jewel]

For those that had interest in Granlund...maybe Novak is a lower priced target?

Is he not playing on the wing, though? And what would that cost?

 

[ULF_55]

Bob Gainey was the GM Of Dallas and drafted his son Steve.

Lester Patrick was the GM of the NYR when they won the cup in 1940. His two sons played on that team.

Darryl Sutter was GM of Calgary when Brett played there.

Steve Tambellini was AGM of Vancouver when Jeff played tehre.

I thought the Sutter's might have something.

Martin Brodeur drafted his son, but that never worked out.

 

[BallardEra]

"Mr Treliving?"

"Frappe please, sweetened with milk"

 

[Zero1]

"Mr Treliving?"

"Frappe please, sweetened with milk"

View attachment 971828

What’s the point of having a GM that’s too scared to do anything?

I really want one of the Vegas guys or Jim Nill from Dallas to take over.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Ah, that would be Dekes.

And the ongoing issue of keeping the core together at any cost.

Is he not playing on the wing, though? And what would that cost?

I guess they just recently moved Novak to wing, he had been playing centre the last 2 years and started at 2C with Stamkos on his wing. It would be hard to really know what you're looking at with Nashville.

Knies-Matthews-Domi
McMann-Novak-88
Patches-JT-Marner
Lorentz-Kampf-Jarnkrok

You'd need Domi to rebound big time playing with Matthews or it doesn't really work.

 

[ULF_55]

He is poor defensively and doesn’t play C.

Is not playing center a new thing this year?
Or is it like Draisaitl, he's a center, but when with McDavid plays his babysitter?

 

[Al14]

What’s the point of having a GM that’s too scared to do anything?

I really want one of the Vegas guys or Jim Nill from Dallas to take over.

I agree, however I also believe that he's sitting on his hands by orders from Shanahan.

I believe that Shanahan is the common denominator and the prime cause of our problems on and off the ice.

 

[SprDaVE]

I agree, however I also believe that he's sitting on his hands by orders from Shanahan.

I believe that Shanahan is the common denominator and the prime cause of our problems on and off the ice.

So Dubas had no problems and free reign, but the new guy doesn't?

 

[Americanadian]

Is not playing center a new thing this year?
Or is it like Draisaitl, he's a center, but when with McDavid plays his babysitter?
View attachment 971831

This goes back 4 seasons. He shifted to the wing partway through last season. Ask anyone who watches the Flyers if Laughton is a C or a W.

 

[nuck]

He is poor defensively and doesn’t play C.

I don't recall watching the guy play but he was actually a full time center pretty much until this year. 977 faceoffs last year and 1077 the year before. Used on the pk and most of his starts were not OZ (Frost 55-70% Laughton 45-49%) Decent on the dot but not great (47-51%) and he seems to hit quite a bit( with 6.56-10.35 hits/60). His plus minus doesn't stick out from year to year. None of the stats tell you if uses his wingers well or makes a bonehead play every other game of course.

His best year was 22-23 where he played 18 minutes a night and had 18g and 43 pts playing mostly with Kevin Hayes. That was also his career high for pp TOI with 1:43. He has paced around 40 a few times with less minutes so that is probably what you get. One year signed after this at an AAV of $3M.

I'm not advocating for the guy even though Tre hangs on my every word. It was just interesting to dig thru some stats while we wait for an actual addition.

 

[Al14]

So Dubas had no problems and free reign, but the new guy doesn't?

Dubas tried to overthrow Shanahan for a reason.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Dubas tried to overthrow Shanahan for a reason.

He's over there doing a bang up job in Pittsburgh now

 

[Dekes For Days]

That link doesn't take me to that post. And as I've said before, signing him to two of them isn't the best way or my preferred way to replace Mitch should he leave, but we don't really know if it makes us worse because it hasn't been done.

I don't know why the link doesn't work for you when it works for me, but it's WTFMAN99's post on Friday at 1:17 pm EST. You were quoted twice. We technically don't know that replacing McDavid with Reaves would make the Oilers worse either because it hasn't been done, but people can get a pretty accurate estimation based on their average impacts. We might fluke into something, but I'm not willing to risk our future on a fluke, or Treliving miraculously pulling something out of his rear.

I find it hard to say for certain that creating better depth and the ability to have cap space to allocate to other areas make the team worse.

"Creating better depth and the ability to have cap space to allocate to other areas" . Just like I said - vague. Not an actual plan. Just pretend that cap space fixes all.

You missed a pretty darn important part of that sentence. It's not "creating better depth and the ability to have cap space to allocate to other areas". It's 'creating the potential to acquire more expensive depth, which may or may not be better than depth we've had and could have otherwise, and allocate to other areas, by purging one of the best players in the league that brings positive and high end offensive and defensive impacts to every game state'. Suddenly, It's pretty obvious how that makes us worse.

Far be it for me to stand up for Tre, but Dubas had quite a bit more time to impact the team, no? So, I hope he would've had something to show for it. But ultimately, what was achieved?

I'm pretty neutral towards KD; maybe someone who's a died-in-wool advocate for him would see that as bias against him, but that is a perceptual issue on their part. I found the cultish attitude some showed kind of off-putting, but as far as hockey moves, it was average.

And yes, a good team have good players; but they don't have 3 forwards (4 this year) making as much as our guys do, and that's the point..

Again, comparing 1.5 years of TRE to 6 years of KD is apples and oranges.

And I wouldn't say it is great right now; I'm not a Treliving apologist. But you're not doing much to dispel any Dubas bias because I can list some trades/signings that hurt the depth just as much as you said he improved it.

Deadline players were excluded, so that is a comparison of 5 years of Dubas to 2 years of Treliving. That doesn't make anything better. That's still a horrible track record of contributions from Treliving, and a complete 180 from the effective and efficient depth we used to find. That successful teams find. That is our real issue right now, not cap space.

You don't need "Dubas bias" to see that. The only "cultish attitude" that's ever existed around Dubas was people pretending he's the devil. He was just a good GM, after a long line of bad ones, and some people valued not going back to this garbage. Was he perfect? No. Did he make mistakes and have things that didn't work out as planned? Of course. No GM is going to get everything right, and I'm sure you have your gripes. But he did enough right to put out the fires, add to the core, fix holes, have good depth, navigate really difficult situations, and build one of the best teams in the league. And when things didn't go as planned, he did something about it. Treliving is just sitting here watching the house he set on fire burn to the ground.

The team may not have gotten the ultimate achievement that you want, but as a GM, he achieved quite a bit through some of the most difficult situations. You would think that our current state would open some eyes, but it looks like some are still too clouded to see that.

You put too much emphasis on nitpicking the irrelevant differences between us and other teams at our core's peak cap hit allocation, while ignoring the relative quality of our players, that this general model is how most successful teams are built, and that that allocation is going to plummet really fast. You need to focus more on what's happening with the other half of the cap, not the cap allocated to the parts that actually earn it.

I know Dubas was awful, right?

Dubas isn't our GM. These are Treliving's failures.

There are two prospects that have good trade value. Minten and Cowan. That's it. There's no first this year; it's likely you're talking about moving next year 1sts if you don't want to subtract either prospect.

There are more than two prospects with value. You're not even including Danford - our 1st round pick last year. As for picks, the 1st from this year is already assisting the current team with McCabe at a spectacular price, but we still have 2 first round picks, 2 second round picks, and 3 third round picks over the next 3 years. Add in all the cap space, and Treliving has had more than enough to do stuff.

While the incoming cap increase is helpful, I think some forget that all the non-core members' salaries will increase as well. What will a Tavares replacement cost with a 100m+ cap if Stephenson was 6.25 last year? What will Knies or McMann's extension look like? What will a quality top 4 defenceman cost, both in terms of assets and/or contract, given that the top 4 are all over 30?

Even if the cap increase brings contract inflation, it's still massively more beneficial than no cap increase. It's only the new players that you need to sign at the new prices. And if all other contracts are going to be going up soon, sounds like a great time to lock in a superstar before all that happens, right?

it just seems like there's little flexibility with the "the pay the stars whatever" method and with no results to back it up.

It's not "pay the stars whatever". It's "pay the stars what they've earned". There are results. You just won't acknowledge them. Any flexibility limitations were a direct result of the cap stagnating for half a decade at the worst possible time, but limited flexibility is still better than limited quality, and we're not operating in a flat cap world anymore. In fact, we're about to experience the exact opposite.

And they also win with depth and a strong defence core. See Vegas, see Tampa, see Colorado. Neither of these is really present here in Toronto.

We had depth and a strong defence core. We don't have it now because of Treliving, not cap space. Those teams won on the backs of their best players and efficiencies in their depth. Well.. that and cap circumvention.

And it's easy to do when Mackinnon is on $6.3m

Yes, Mackinnon taking a long time to break out helped them, but you can't pick and choose that. But what also helped that contract be so good is the cap rising over time, and that's something we could similarly benefit from by signing Marner before the cap skyrockets.

they didn't even get through one season @ 13m before moving Rantanen. Kind of telling, no?

It's telling, but it's not telling what you want it to tell. What happened to "May need some time to pass before we can properly judge"?

36 games isn't small, particularly in the playoffs; stop making excuses, Especially when Rantanen, the guy you say isn't as good as Mitch, scored more goals in the '23 playoffs (one round) than he has in the last 5 years.

36 games is tiny, especially with the massively disparate situations teams experience in the playoffs. I don't care how many more goals a goal scorer scored during X than a playmaker scored during Y. The only thing that matters is their overall impacts.

Admittedly, I got the ppg stat wrong over Mackinnon; it was only for a certain amount of time. But I don't really think I do; the playoff is the most important time of the year, and It is kind of hard to take out of context. Both Mackinnon and Rantanen are head and shoulders above our guys in the post-season.

It's actually incredibly easy to ignore context in the playoffs. You're doing it right now. There's so much more critical context to consider, because everybody is experiencing different things in ways that they don't in the regular season, and it skews all outputs across teams. There's a lot more to playoff performance than how many points/goals you get.

Sure seems like he's a 90-point scorer to me. And if I'm signing Mitch into his mid-30s where his offensive numbers will likely decline, I'd like the contract to represent 94, 97, 99 points, not the projected/paced numbers.

Somebody who both paces and finishes with more than 90 points is not a 90 point scorer. You can't just change the standard of how all NHL contracts work because you want a deal. There shouldn't be too much decline through the ages Marner would be signing, and if anything, Marner is probably the least likely to decline of any of our core, as his impact isn't as reliant on physical attributes that deteriorate with age.

 

[Al14]

He's over there doing a bang up job in Pittsburgh now

Thankfully so !!!

 

[nuck]

So Dubas had no problems and free reign, but the new guy doesn't?

I think KD had a ton of rope his first few years and much less the last couple. To me the "Shanaplan" was take your lumps and quit trying to squeak into the playoffs at any cost. Hire qualified people and listen to what they tell you. The lack of directional change from year to year suggests he was still following what Kyle had laid out to him in the first couple of years. This would have been the agenda he pushed with the board every after failed playoffs "we need to be patient and stick to the process"

I think Tre had zero rope in year one because his hiring was contingent on him reflecting Shanahan's vision of where the team could go. The vision the Prez had when Dubas left the organization probably didn't change. Shanny did not hire Tre to take the club in a new direction. Basically a continuation of what the club was already evolving into before Kyle left. Top-heavy offense first but maybe with a few tweaks. I wonder what Kyle might have done if he had stayed and been allowed to mix things up?

I think the new guy had to retain Keefe and resign AM and Willie no matter, what, and probably has no authority to do anything with Marner during the season except re-sign him if he can. He can move the other deck chairs around as he chooses but the expectation is he will improve the club at whatever cost is necessary for a playoff run to prove Shanny was right the last 10 years.