Trades & Free Agency Thread: 2024-2025 - Trade Deadline Approaches

[Americanadian]

Vegas is historically aggressive at the deadline. They have a clear need on the wing. I wonder if they’d be willing to part with Nic Roy if they need to clear cap for a trade. Potentially something like this:

To VGK: Rakell, Dewar
To TOR: Roy
To PIT: Minten, Holtz, Korczak

 

[PromisedLand]

WTF

 

[Americanadian]

WTF

This is extremely vague. What does he believe his market value is and what does Colorado believe it is?

If Colorado, who knows the player better than any other team, thinks he’s a 12M player, and the player thinks he’s a 14M player - he can take a “significant” cut and still not meet Colorado’s valuation.

 

[nuck]

WTF

Yeah I wonder what his agent told him his market value was

 

[Gallagbi]

Yeah I wonder what his agent told him his market value was

Pretty well known it's in the 14m/yr ballpark, no? Every report since summer has that as the number

 

[Apex Predator]

WTF

What is his definition of significant cut? Matthews and Marner significant cut is 100 K? What’s his?

 

[-DeMo-]

WTF

if true why didn't a deal get done in the summer?

 

[nuck]

if true why didn't a deal get done in the summer?

Its all part of the fog of percentage of the cap. Agents have been pushing the concept for years. He isn't as good as MacKinnon/McDavid but because the cap is rising and the players share is going up that somehow means he can be a top 2 salary in the league. Clubs don't have to accept that, because mostly they can work around the money so they take it to make their best players happy. Its all fine so long as you have a max of 2 elite players per team.

 

[sxvnert]

J.T Miller for Rielly straight up.

WTF

"I was willing to take 14 instead of market value of 15"

 

[Maple Leaf]

J.T Miller for Rielly straight up.


"I was willing to take 14 instead of market value of 15"

Yep and then JT meiler]] miller bud light cause problems in our locke =r rooom

 

[Dreakmur]

Its all part of the fog of percentage of the cap. Agents have been pushing the concept for years. He isn't as good as MacKinnon/McDavid but because the cap is rising and the players share is going up that somehow means he can be a top 2 salary in the league. Clubs don't have to accept that, because mostly they can work around the money so they take it to make their best players happy. Its all fine so long as you have a max of 2 elite players per team.

I’ve been saying for 10 years that players should sign for %s of the cap rather than flat dollar amounts. It makes it much simpler for all teams to manage their caps and players don’t have to sacrifice their present teams to ensure their future salaries.

 

[BayStBullies]

I’ve been saying for 10 years that players should sign for %s of the cap rather than flat dollar amounts. It makes it much simpler for all teams to manage their caps and players don’t have to sacrifice their present teams to ensure their future salaries.

That doesn't make sense. Rookies would be screwed as they age up and find no available money.

 

[thewave]

WTF

Don't forget to a player significant could be 500k under ask. 500k is significant money to most people.

 

[Dreakmur]

That doesn't make sense. Rookies would be screwed as they age up and find no available money.

How would it do that?

There’s the exact same money available. Using cap percentage just makes it easier for teams to plan, and easier on players who expect the cap to rise.

 

[TMLAM34]

Vegas is historically aggressive at the deadline. They have a clear need on the wing. I wonder if they’d be willing to part with Nic Roy if they need to clear cap for a trade. Potentially something like this:

To VGK: Rakell, Dewar
To TOR: Roy
To PIT: Minten, Holtz, Korczak

I would love Roy and would be willing to move Minten in order to acquire him.

McMann - Roy - Nylander

Would be a real solid line.

 

[Americanadian]

I would love Roy and would be willing to move Minten in order to acquire him.

McMann - Roy - Nylander

Would be a real solid line.

He's having a terrible season relative to the past couple years but he did pick up 3 assists last night against the Panthers.

 

[Stephen]

This is extremely vague. What does he believe his market value is and what does Colorado believe it is?

If Colorado, who knows the player better than any other team, thinks he’s a 12M player, and the player thinks he’s a 14M player - he can take a “significant” cut and still not meet Colorado’s valuation.

My guess is he was posturing and applying pressure to Colorado thinking there was runway to resolve things - at the Leafs and Marner pace and timeline, but Colorado got trigger happy and made the Francis for Cullen trade of this era.

If Rantanen is willing to take $12 million, I would actually be interested in trying to get Marner and Rantanen signed together and forget about Tavares.

 

[Americanadian]

My guess is he was posturing and applying pressure to Colorado thinking there was runway to resolve things - at the Leafs and Marner pace and timeline, but Colorado got trigger happy and made the Francis for Cullen trade of this era.

If Rantanen is willing to take $12 million, I would actually be interested in trying to get Marner and Rantanen signed together and forget about Tavares.

Imagine the Leafs running 3 11M+ RW’s.

I was not alive in 1991 so I have 0 recollection of the Francis for Cullen trade but what were Francis and Cullen’s cap hit when the trade was made?

 

[Fogelhund]

Imagine the Leafs running 3 11M+ RW’s.

and then three $4 mil or less C's?

 

[Americanadian]

and then three $4 mil or less C's?

It would be quite barren down the middle. I don't think it’d be a recipe for success.

 

[Stephen]

Imagine the Leafs running 3 11M+ RW’s.

I was not alive in 1991 so I have 0 recollection of the Francis for Cullen trade but what were Francis and Cullen’s cap hit when the trade was made?

I think Rantanen would shift to center in this video game scenario and the superficial thinking is he’s a better athlete and more offensively inclined than the high end grinder Tavares is or was.

Cullen for Francis was a trade where the Penguins fleeced Hartford for their franchise player while offering up a package of Cullen and others. At the time Cullen was a highly productive young player on the Pens but cratered in Hartford. And oddly enough ended up with the Leafs during the Burns era.

 

[Americanadian]

I think Rantanen would shift to center in this video game scenario and the superficial thinking is he’s a better athlete and more offensively inclined than the high end grinder Tavares is or was.

Cullen for Francis was a trade where the Penguins fleeced Hartford for their franchise player while offering up a package of Cullen and others. At the time Cullen was a highly productive young player on the Pens but cratered in Hartford. And oddly enough ended up with the Leafs during the Burns era.

Committing 12M to a winger and asking them to play C doesn't seem like the best allocation of cap space.

 

[nuck]

How would it do that?

There’s the exact same money available. Using cap percentage just makes it easier for teams to plan, and easier on players who expect the cap to rise.

I can't get behind that myself. The system was set up to ensure the players as a group get an agreed share, not really for the top players to take an increased bite as the revenues grow. In the pre-cap history of the game if you wanted to earn more than another player you had to outperform them. In the absence of performance bonuses not only do they not take a hit if they underperform, the money would actually be growing in a cap% world.

Second contracts are based on assumed growth so hitting 50+ pts gets a $7M deal and FA deals seem based on top players never declining. They don't actually have to prove they are worth it., its a gamble where the clubs lose more often than the player. Then you have clubs with one star they are desperate to keep and some cap room, so they can afford an overpayment This all creates guaranteed inflation that has been grinding the salaries of the majority of players who aren't stars and preventing clubs from absorbing the cost of players they signed in good faith who are not performing up to their deals. NMs and the cap hit of buyouts mean the only relief for a club is in cap growth which player agents are trying to consume as soon as it is announced.

Cap percentage is absolutely fine if it is based on players meeting the production that they used to argue their position in negotiation. But the players aren't giving anything back and the top 15% of the NHLPA are feasting at the expense of their brothers. And clubs that are afraid to get salaries run up even higher if the player gets to UFA pay rather than risk, because they don't want to be farm teams for teams that aren't developing their own stars.

Teams make their plans based on players producing what they are paid for. A proper performance bonus system would give them the room to properly reward the players that are most helping them win. Its a great deal for everyone except the overpaid and that's why the PA won't touch it.

 

[TheShape]

My guess is he was posturing and applying pressure to Colorado thinking there was runway to resolve things - at the Leafs and Marner pace and timeline, but Colorado got trigger happy and made the Francis for Cullen trade of this era.

If Rantanen is willing to take $12 million, I would actually be interested in trying to get Marner and Rantanen signed together and forget about Tavares.

Square peg, round hole stuff. Rather just keep Tavares in this scenario. Rantanen ain't taking 12m, if he was willing to he would be sitting on an extension with the Avs right now. With all that said, I would pay him more than Marner if it came down to it.

 

[Stephen]

Square peg, round hole stuff. Rather just keep Tavares in this scenario. Rantanen ain't taking 12m, if he was willing to he would be sitting on an extension with the Avs right now. With all that said, I would pay him more than Marner if it came down to it.

To simplify I think it just comes down to whether:

Matthews Rantanen Marner and Nylander is better or if we prefer Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, X-Player.