Confirmed with Link: TRADE: Sharks trade G Mackenzie Blackwood, F Givani Smith, 2027 5th to COL for G Alexandar Georgiev, F Nikolai Kovalenko, '26 2nd, Cond'l '25 5th

[OversKy]

Avs should have tanked for Dahlin and Jack Hughes. It was so stupid of them to try and win the Cup.

Even if all the prospects in the system develop realistically they'd be far short of Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar, Toews, etc. DW left an empty cupboard, it's going to be years yet.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Even if all the prospects in the system develop realistically they'd be far short of Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar, Toews, etc. DW left an empty cupboard, it's going to be years yet.

Celebrini = MacKinnon
Askarov = Makar
Musty/Chernyshov/2025 pick/somebody = Rantanen
Eklund = Landeskog
Dickinson = Toews

Of course, I largely think that Rantanen is overrated. Cale Makar was the straw the stirred the drink for that team, hands down, no question. Even MacKinnon was second-fiddle...

 

[Hodge]

Even if all the prospects in the system develop realistically they'd be far short of Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar, Toews, etc. DW left an empty cupboard, it's going to be years yet.

Avs sucked from 2011 to 2017 to get those guys. We’re basically on the same timeline a decade later which more or less lines up with what Grier said. And only one of those guys was a 1OA pick.

 

[OversKy]

Celebrini = MacKinnon
Askarov = Makar
Musty/Chernyshov/2025 pick/somebody = Rantanen
Eklund = Landeskog
Dickinson = Toews

Of course, I largely think that Rantanen is overrated. Cale Makar was the straw the stirred the drink for that team, hands down, no question. Even MacKinnon was second-fiddle...

I think a wishful post like this really shows how far the Sharks are from a team like the Avs. Rantanen is better than anyone we've got in our system and only Celebrini is a possible contender. Landeskog is better than Eklund. Dickinson could be better than Toews who knows but Makar not a chance. You've still got Nichushkin, 50 point Compher, and 50 point Lekhonen. Girard, Byram and Rodrigues playing down the lineup is crazy. This team won with Landeskog out of the lineup...

 

[Hodge]

I think a wishful post like this really shows how far the Sharks are from a team like the Avs. Rantanen is better than anyone we've got in our system and only Celebrini is a possible contender. Landeskog is better than Eklund. Dickinson could be better than Toews who knows but Makar not a chance. You've still got Nichushkin, 50 point Compher, and 50 point Lekhonen. Girard, Byram and Rodrigues playing down the lineup is crazy. This team won with Landeskog out of the lineup...

Huh? Landeskog played every game of their Cup run. Rodrigues wasn't on that team either and Girard was injured. Compher and Lekhonen were trade acquisitions that we could easily replicate.

Comparing Musty/Chernyshov to Rantanen is indeed ridiculous but he omitted Will Smith for some reason who's a better bet to reach that level.

Projecting Celebrini, Eklund and Dickinson to develop into MacKinnon, Landeskog and Toews level players seems reasonable.

We need a Makar and Schaefer could be that guy. Nobody expected Makar to turn into what he is today in his draft year.

 

[hohosaregood]

I think he can be a solid first line center but he's one guy and I dont think our forward group is very deep now or going into the future. McKenna is an offensive dynamo and Dupont is looking like a bigger better Makar albeit too early to tell.

We'd need to blow it up this year and restart the rebuild to do it. Sounds like we should if they're that good.

 

[OversKy]

Huh? Landeskog played every game of their Cup run. Rodrigues wasn't on that team either and Girard was injured. Compher and Lekhonen were trade acquisitions that we could easily replicate.

Comparing Musty/Chernyshov to Rantanen is indeed ridiculous but he omitted Will Smith for some reason who's a better bet to reach that level.

Projecting Celebrini, Eklund and Dickinson to develop into MacKinnon, Landeskog and Toews level players seems reasonable.

We need a Makar and Schaefer could be that guy. Nobody expected Makar to turn into what he is today in his draft year.

You're right for some reason EP has very little playoff stats for the 2022 Avs. None for Landeskog. I still think it's a huge reach and we need both McKenna and Dupont to get us to that level. That or we'll have to see if we can get our hands on top 5 picks of quality in those same coming years.

 

[TheBeard]

You're right for some reason EP has very little playoff stats for the 2022 Avs. None for Landeskog. I still think it's a huge reach and we need both McKenna and Dupont to get us to that level. That or we'll have to see if we can get our hands on top 5 picks of quality in those same coming years.

Wait we need BOTH?

 

[OversKy]

Wait we need BOTH?

MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Landeskog, Nichushkin etc. Again if we're going with a lineup of Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, and Dickinson these guys better step on the gas if we're just going to try and find the fill in free agency. I do wonder if Askarov will turn into a superstar goaltender though which would help.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I think a wishful post like this really shows how far the Sharks are from a team like the Avs. Rantanen is better than anyone we've got in our system and only Celebrini is a possible contender.

No way Jose. Celebrini is a tier above Rantanen. I hope that one of the many projects the Sharks have can be a Rantanen-level player.

Landeskog is better than Eklund.

I think Eklund is trending to develop into a similar-caliber player

Dickinson could be better than Toews who knows but Makar not a chance.

I think that Askarov has a shot at being Makar-level...eg a superstar goalie who can steal a series.

You've still got Nichushkin, 50 point Compher, and 50 point Lekhonen. Girard, Byram and Rodrigues playing down the lineup is crazy.

The depth I'm not worried about. Sharks will fill that out via the draft, trades, and free agency.

This team won with Landeskog out of the lineup...

No.

 

[TheBeard]

MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Landeskog, Nichushkin etc. Again if we're going with a lineup of Celebrini, Smith, Eklund, and Dickinson these guys better step on the gas if we're just going to try and find the fill in free agency. I do wonder if Askarov will turn into a superstar goaltender though which would help.

I mean you just named a bunch of teens and a 22 year old. Rantanen didn't bust out til he was 21. Nate when he was 23. Nuke was a castoff from another team and while I like Gabe, he never became the player he was expected to become. Good leader, but someone who's put up Patrick Marleau-like numbers through his career. Maker is a special player, but even in their stanley cup year they'd gotten a majority of their production from guys who underwhelmed on other teams (Kadri, Compher, Burakovsky). Hell, even Toews was acquired through trade. My point is outside of the big 4, the Avs didn't really product a lot of the talent on their cup winner. As far as I'm concerned we have tons more in the system than they ever did. Now, whether or not that translates is another issue. If Will becomes what Gabe was then we're fine.

I think that Askarov has a shot at being Makar-level...eg a superstar goalie who can steal a series.

That's a tall order. Makar is trending to be one of the 5 best D-men of all time. I don't necessarily think we need someone that elite on the blue line.

 

[MackAttack71]

It smells like someone's trolling in here

 

[Lebanezer]

It smells like someone's trolling in here

I don't think it's trolling, I think it's a pessimistic view of how the entirety of the Sharks core/prospect pool will develop over the next few years and an overly optimistic look at how good the Avs team was the won the cup as a comparison.

 

[TheBeard]

It smells like someone's trolling in here

He's not the first to have this opinion. There are some who seem to think we need 8-10 elite talents in order to compete and that the only way to get those talents is to finish last or close to it and draft top 3 for the next 3 or so years. You look at all the talents on the cup winners of the past few years. Kuch, Vasi, Point, Toews, Rantanen, Mark Stone etc. All key pieces drafted outside the top 10.

 

[Jargon]

Teams aren’t built solely through prospects and development. We’re fairly flush with prospects and will be even more so after this summer — meaning there’s a world where we package prospects into a couple of key guys. There’s also free agency. There’s also the hope that at least 1-3 guys we drafted in later rounds the last 3 years come in and make a huge impact (Cagnoni might be that guy or maybe it’s someone else). The idea that we have to win 1st overall 3 years in a row to ever win a cup is a real intense rebuild philosophy that can also fail just as easily as any other.

I think like most things, it’s a balance. You need home grown talent and what you get on the market. A few months ago we didn’t have a potential all-star goalie - now we’ve got Asky.

I also don’t want Celebrini, Eklund, Askarov and Smith to spend their next two years on a last place team. I refuse to be Buffalo.

 

[OrrNumber4]

He's not the first to have this opinion. There are some who seem to think we need 8-10 elite talents in order to compete and that the only way to get those talents is to finish last or close to it and draft top 3 for the next 3 or so years. You look at all the talents on the cup winners of the past few years. Kuch, Vasi, Point, Toews, Rantanen, Mark Stone etc. All key pieces drafted outside the top 10.

Fixed that.

Ultimately, it's extremely hard to get a franchise-caliber talent outside of the top-5. But, that's why elite teams are elite...they find the exceptions.

 

[TheBeard]

Teams aren’t built solely through prospects and development. We’re fairly flush with prospects and will be even more so after this summer — meaning there’s a world where we package prospects into a couple of key guys. There’s also free agency. There’s also the hope that at least 1-3 guys we drafted in later rounds the last 3 years come in and make a huge impact (Cagnoni might be that guy or maybe it’s someone else). The idea that we have to win 1st overall 3 years in a row to ever win a cup is a real intense rebuild philosophy that can also fail just as easily as any other.

I think like most things, it’s a balance. You need home grown talent and what you get on the market. A few months ago we didn’t have a potential all-star goalie - now we’ve got Asky.

I also don’t want Celebrini, Eklund, Askarov and Smith to spend their next two years on a last place team. I refuse to be Buffalo.

I'm feeling confident that with Mukh, Cagnoni, Polhkamp, Dick, Thompson, Wallenius and perhaps Walman there's the makings of a majority of a solid 6 strong D group even if there's no clear cut top shutdown D-man there. I think we can get one of those via trade (even if it is steep) like a Dobson or Seider if Detroit restarts their rebuild.

Fixed that.

Ultimately, it's extremely hard to get a franchise-caliber talent outside of the top-5. But, that's why elite teams are elite...they find the exceptions.

Question: Why did you cross them out?

 

[Lebanezer]

Essentially every team needs 6 players to play at an elite level to be a legit Stanley Cup contender. Not a playoff team, a legit contender. If we're lucky we have 3-4 of those guys now, but they need a couple years of development.

 

[CHALUPA]

Even if we’re last place the next two years, there’s no guarantee we get either McKenna or DuPont with the draft lottery. We’re building a really solid core here, we should stay the course.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Question: Why did you cross them out?

Toews and Rantanen were not key pieces the way the other ones were. Also, Rantanen was drafted 10th IIRC. Stone was drafted late, but Vegas acquired him via trade.

 

[weastern bias]

The Avalanche won the Stanley Cup NINE YEARS after MacKinnon was drafted, he was 26 years old

Any anxiety about the timeline of our rebuild is incredibly premature, we are not even close to where we should be worried about if what we're building is championship caliber, this is literally year zero, get a f***ing grip guys, maybe we should stop finishing last in wins before we get to that step

 

[Lebanezer]

Celebrini = MacKinnon
Askarov = Makar
Musty/Chernyshov/2025 pick/somebody = Rantanen
Eklund = Landeskog
Dickinson = Toews

Of course, I largely think that Rantanen is overrated. Cale Makar was the straw the stirred the drink for that team, hands down, no question. Even MacKinnon was second-fiddle...

The timing of this is excellent.

 

[OrrNumber4]

The timing of this is excellent.

~30 games in the 2025 regular season are not the 2022 playoffs.

 

[hohosaregood]

Makar was excellent during their cup run and he still looks the part offensively but it's been interesting to see his metrics fall off, especially compared to Quinn Hughes' general rise.

 

[OrrNumber4]

The Avalanche won the Stanley Cup NINE YEARS after MacKinnon was drafted, he was 26 years old

Any anxiety about the timeline of our rebuild is incredibly premature, we are not even close to where we should be worried about if what we're building is championship caliber, this is literally year zero, get a f***ing grip guys, maybe we should stop finishing last in wins before we get to that step

This is perfectly true and accurate, but it's like telling a new parent not to get so anxious since it has been done billions of times before.

Besides, without anxiety HFboards would cease to exist...