Speculation: Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part VI: Do Anything

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

I would agree that 2Cs is the best they can do.

Not sure about Stastny though.

Exactly; elite #1 centers don't grow on trees. You need to draft them. Our love for drafting D combined with the fact that we will NEVER tank = not going to get a player of that caliber unless we get lucky.

So where do we go to get talent? Leaves us 2 options.. give up assets to acquire other assets, or sign guys that have proven they can perform to REASONABLE contracts and see what happens. It's picking the lesser of 2 evils IMO, but this is what happens in the NHL today when you don't tank. It is what it is; the drafting system is shot IMO but what can we do

 

[NYGBleedBlueNYR]

I agree that we need that kind of player, I'm just not sure Rundblad is that guy. If he could be had for cheap, I might take a flyer on him, but I doubt that would be the case.

TricksJews

Who would you like them to try & aquire with the pieces they have.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

Absolute no to Stastny. No, no no. He's a left handed Stepan.


We need an OFFENSIVE upgrade on Stepan. Stastny does not provide that and who knows what he commands as a UFA.

Grabovski has undeniable offensive ability. I guess no one was watching the game last night when he ripped it top shelf over the shoulder of our $60 million dollar goalie

I guess if you want to base everything on one 30 game stretch Grabovski is an upgrade offensively over Stepan. However if you do the logical thing and take the entirety of their careers into consideration you'll see that he is indeed a downgrade.

But why do that? It's makes way more sense to jump on the bandwagon.

Ask Leafs fans how much they liked him, if he was this for offensively in Toronto he'd still be there. Putting him on the first line here and exciting him to produce at three same pace he currently is, is lunacy. Are you related to Glen Sather by chance? Because it's a typical Sather move.

 

[Trxjw]

I find it hard to believe a guy that just got bought out of a BIG contract from the Leafs and subsequently is getting paid by Washington is going to command huge money/term. For Grabo, I would think playing time/a good fit would be more important than the $$ at the end of the day considering money isn't an issue for him.

I don't know why you find it hard to believe. That's exactly the kind of thing that happens in the NHL. People always wax philosophical about the "good fit" but how many UFA's took less money for a good fit? Very, very few.

What would you rather do to replace Richards, realistically? Trade assets for someone else? Beggars can't be choosers. We can't draft middle of the pack, not sign free agents and expect to be competitive. It's either one or the other; draft high OR sign UFAs.

I'd rather extend a QO to Brassard and be committed for one year, than extend a longer term at more money to Grabovski. If it came down to acquiring another center via trade, I'd certainly explore that as well. The two options you listed are not the only two options. Maybe in Ranger land, but not in reality. McDonagh is a #1 defender. Acquired via trade. Nash is a top-line winger. Trade. These players can be acquired without throwing money at them.

You're blowing the risk out of proportion. Teams overpay for UFAs because they can be had for only money; that's the trade off. If we gave Grabovski $5M per for 3 years with the cap going up we would be more than fine and lose no assets in the process. We would be SAVING $$ on the cap if we're signing him to replace Richards.If he sucks, trade him at the deadline/draft for whatever. There's very little risk here. It's a no brainer to me; save money against the cap and upgrade C in one fell swoop

But the money from Richards' buyout doesn't go directly to signing Grabovski. You're not trading one for the other. That buyout money needs to be spread amongst the entire lineup. I don't think acquiring another 55 point center is a good use of the cap space. It's always "just money" until we're discussing how to rid ourselves of the awful contracts Sather has given out.

 

[pld459666]

Not for nothing, but I would also look to stay away from a Stepan clone. I don't want another soft minded middling center.

we have enough soft minded players on the Rangers, no need to replace older ones with younger ones.

Soft is soft

 

[slipknottin]

Not for nothing, but I would also look to stay away from a Stepan clone. I don't want another soft minded middling center.

we have enough soft minded players on the Rangers, no need to replace older ones with younger ones.

Soft is soft

Guess it's baseless insults hour.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

I guess if you want to base everything on one 30 game stretch Grabovski is an upgrade offensively over Stepan. However if you do the logical thing and take the entirety of their careers into consideration you'll see that he is indeed a downgrade.

But why do that? It's makes way more sense to jump on the bandwagon.

Ask Leafs fans how much they liked him, if he was this for offensively in Toronto he'd still be there. Putting him on the first line here and exciting him to produce at three same pace he currently is, is lunacy. Are you related to Glen Sather by chance? Because it's a typical Sather move.

Advocates looking back at past performance

Doesn't realize that Grabovski has equaled or exceeded Stepan's point totals twice with less TOI/games played

Toronto fans love Grabo. All of them that I've read on the main boards regret the misuse of him. I have no idea what you're getting at.

Putting him on the first line and expecting him to produce at the same pace is lunacy? I can't even. HE PLAYS WITH JOEL WARD AND JASON CHIMERA

You're saying he wouldn't produce at the same pace with RICK NASH and Kreider + being on the top PP unit? He currently plays on Washingtons 2nd PP because of Ovechkin/Backstrom. Why do I even bother..

 

[Trxjw]

So you are saying nobody in the system could replace Hags yet we can't win a faceoff to save our lives and then you have 3 guys winning at better than a 53% clip. Puck control is part of AV's game. Sure Hags has great speed, so does Kreider, but he isn't a playmaker or puck carrier. Hanzal will take the body, Hags is a figure skater.

When did I say that? Nowhere. I simply said it's prudent to hang onto the asset you have when you have a player who is close to NHL ready already in the system.

Hagelin is one of the best puck possession forwards we have. Calling Hagelin a figure skater is asinine.

We can wait all day for talent to develop but we have an elite goalie and 2 elite dmen now. If you added Spezza to Nash, a soon to be amnestied next season Richards (having a resurgent season) for an underacheiving C and Dman and a kid who doesn't seem to be able to crack the line up. And you are only tied to Spezza thru 2014-15. It is a gamble but it isn't like he is signed for 6 more years or anything and what did we really give up.

By my count, we have one elite D man and a bunch of good ones who are now struggling for a variety of reasons. We have a goalie who is struggling, but just signed a huge contract to stay here. He's not going anywhere. He's not going to fall on his face in the next 4 years. If he does, then no amount of talent we throw in front of him is going to fix that.

You might only have until the end of next year for Spezza, but the chances of you getting a full 82 game season out of him next year is very slim.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

I don't know why you find it hard to believe. That's exactly the kind of thing that happens in the NHL. People always wax philosophical about the "good fit" but how many UFA's took less money for a good fit? Very, very few.



I'd rather extend a QO to Brassard and be committed for one year, than extend a longer term at more money to Grabovski. If it came down to acquiring another center via trade, I'd certainly explore that as well. The two options you listed are not the only two options. Maybe in Ranger land, but not in reality. McDonagh is a #1 defender. Acquired via trade. Nash is a top-line winger. Trade. These players can be acquired without throwing money at them.



But the money from Richards' buyout doesn't go directly to signing Grabovski. You're not trading one for the other. That buyout money needs to be spread amongst the entire lineup. I don't think acquiring another 55 point center is a good use of the cap space. It's always "just money" until we're discussing how to rid ourselves of the awful contracts Sather has given out.

Agree to disagree. We gave up some VERY good players for Nash, blowing up half of our ECF core and we still wound up with his huge cap hit. You referenced the McDonagh fleece job which will likely never be replicated in the history of sports. Would I love Glen to trade Richards for Drouin? Yeah, sure. Is it going happen like that? No. That was a once in a lifetime fleece job.

The increase in the cap goes to the rest of the lineup. We would still be saving money from buying out Richards/signing Grabovski no matter how you slice it

 

[NYR Viper]

Advocates looking back at past performance

Doesn't realize that Grabovski has equaled or exceeded Stepan's point totals twice with less TOI/games played

Toronto fans love Grabo. All of them that I've read on the main boards regret the misuse of him. I have no idea what you're getting at.

Putting him on the first line and expecting him to produce at the same pace is lunacy? I can't even. HE PLAYS WITH JOEL WARD AND JASON CHIMERA

You're saying he wouldn't produce at the same pace with RICK NASH and Kreider + being on the top PP unit? He currently plays on Washingtons 2nd PP because of Ovechkin/Backstrom. Why do I even bother..

Because it's what we all do and it creates great conversation?

In all honesty, I wouldn't be opposed to Grabovski if he cam relatively cheaply. I just happen to like Stastny better than Grabovski and I like Ott and Bolland as 3c's.

To whoever said Lindberg isn't ready for 3c duty, he is on this team. His defense is already ready, they want him to continue to develop his offensive game. It's coming along.

 

[pld459666]

I guess if you want to base everything on one 30 game stretch Grabovski is an upgrade offensively over Stepan. However if you do the logical thing and take the entirety of their careers into consideration you'll see that he is indeed a downgrade.

But why do that? It's makes way more sense to jump on the bandwagon.

Ask Leafs fans how much they liked him, if he was this for offensively in Toronto he'd still be there. Putting him on the first line here and exciting him to produce at three same pace he currently is, is lunacy. Are you related to Glen Sather by chance? Because it's a typical Sather move.

In Toronto, he's had 48, 35, 58, and 51 seasons. All better than Stepan's so far.

He was asked to play a 3rd line role last year and it back fired on the leafs AND Grabovsky and Grabs got bought out.

Stepan is better defensively, but I would give the nod offensively to Grabovsky.

I think you short change Grabovsky because while he may be a defensive problem, played in offensive situations, he produces.

Grabovsky is a 50-55 point player.

Stepan is no better in that regards.

would I sign him? No. But that's because Stepan is already holding down the #2 center spot for this team. Adding Grabs will only re-produce the final year issues he had in Toronto.

And Yes, I am saying that Stepan will NEVER BE MORE THAN A 2ND LINE CENTER

no shame in that

 

[Trxjw]

Agree to disagree. We gave up some VERY good players for Nash, blowing up half of our ECF core and we still wound up with his huge cap hit. You referenced the McDonagh fleece job which will likely never be replicated in the history of sports. Would I love Glen to trade Richards for Drouin? Yeah, sure. Is it going happen like that? No. That was a once in a lifetime fleece job.

The increase in the cap goes to the rest of the lineup. We would still be saving money from buying out Richards/signing Grabovski no matter how you slice it

We gave up two average players and a prospect who STILL hasn't cracked the Jackets roster for Nash. Saying they're "very good" players is just plain wrong.

Never be replicated? How bad was that Schenn for JVR deal? Neal and Niskanen for Goligoski? These players CAN be acquired if you're willing to make the right deal. It just takes patience. Look around the league. Plenty of talent was acquired early on in their careers in exchange for mediocre pieces.

I'll just agree to disagree with your affinity for Grabovski. I don't understand it one bit.

 

[pld459666]

Guess it's baseless insults hour.

it's not an insult and it's not baseless.

Stepan doesn't have it in his DNA to physically engage the opposition. The team as a whole are for the most part very similar.

I'm not talking about fighting. I'm talking about not peeling from an opportunity to lay the body on a guy. I'm talking about trying to impose your physical will on the opposition. I'm talkign about looking forward to going to the tough/dirty areas of the ice to generate chances.

Stepan, Richards, Nash, Brassard, Kreider still all would prefer to peel away from an opportunity to eliminate the opposing forward.

Unless they have the man advantage on a PP or with the goalie pulled, alot of Rangers have a real tough time being willing to fight and jocky for position in the trenches. Zuccs tries, but he's a lil guy same as Callahan

to many other Rangers are content getting pushed to the perimeter looking for the perfect pass so that they can try to reciprocate with another perfect pass.

They play the game like ugly hockey is beneath them and it's insulting to watch.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Because it's what we all do and it creates great conversation?

In all honesty, I wouldn't be opposed to Grabovski if he cam relatively cheaply. I just happen to like Stastny better than Grabovski and I like Ott and Bolland as 3c's.

To whoever said Lindberg isn't ready for 3c duty, he is on this team. His defense is already ready, they want him to continue to develop his offensive game. It's coming along.

I just got frustrated at the thought of having to explain how a player could produce better by playing with Nash/Kreider as opposed to the offensive juggernauts that are Chimera and Ward

For the record, I also am only advocating signing Grabovski if the contract is under $5M per for less than 3 years. If it a penny/day over that, I say no. I think $4.5M per/3 years is a very fair contract for Grabovski. If that gets him here, who knows

In Toronto, he's had 48, 35, 58, and 51 seasons. All better than Stepan's so far.

He was asked to play a 3rd line role last year and it back fired on the leafs AND Grabovsky and Grabs got bought out.

Stepan is better defensively, but I would give the nod offensively to Grabovsky.

I think you short change Grabovsky because while he may be a defensive problem, played in offensive situations, he produces.

Grabovsky is a 50-55 point player.

Stepan is no better in that regards.

would I sign him? No. But that's because Stepan is already holding down the #2 center spot for this team. Adding Grabs will only re-produce the final year issues he had in Toronto.

And Yes, I am saying that Stepan will NEVER BE MORE THAN A 2ND LINE CENTER

no shame in that

I agree with everything you said. Put this into context though. Grabovski is out producing Stepan (by a wide margin 5 on 5) playing with Ward/Chimera while Stepan plays with Nash/Kreider. If you penciled in Grabo on our top line and gave him 1st PP unit time, theoretically he could probably put up between 65-70 points in a full season

 

[RangerBoy]

Zuccarello is a good player but his size is an issue. He will a group II with arbitration rights. The Rangers should look into selling high for once. He is 5-7.

 

[pld459666]

I just got frustrated at the thought of having to explain how a player could produce better by playing with Nash/Kreider as opposed to the offensive juggernauts that are Chimera and Ward

For the record, I also am only advocating signing Grabovski if the contract is under $5M per for less than 3 years. If it a penny/day over that, I say no. I think $4.5M per/3 years is a very fair contract for Grabovski. If that gets him here, who knows



I agree with everything you said. Put this into context though. Grabovski is out producing Stepan (by a wide margin 5 on 5) playing with Ward/Chimera while Stepan plays with Nash/Kreider. If you penciled in Grabo on our top line and gave him 1st PP unit time, theoretically he could probably put up between 65-70 points in a full season

Somewhat agree, but I think what we would then have to take into consideration with Grabs in NY is that he would then not have Backstrom and AO absorbing most of the opposition's top coverage thus not being able to take advantage of mis matches.

Grabs is not a top line center. He's a guy that can take advantage second line defensive pairings.

I'm not sure I see 65+ point production out of Grabs. Again, just like with Stepan, he's a 50-55 point guy and there's no shame in that.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

We gave up two average players and a prospect who STILL hasn't cracked the Jackets roster for Nash. Saying they're "very good" players is just plain wrong.

Never be replicated? How bad was that Schenn for JVR deal? Neal and Niskanen for Goligoski? These players CAN be acquired if you're willing to make the right deal. It just takes patience. Look around the league. Plenty of talent was acquired early on in their careers in exchange for mediocre pieces.

I'll just agree to disagree with your affinity for Grabovski. I don't understand it one bit.

So you're plan to re-tool this team is to fleece other GMs with trades? I wouldn't exactly consider that a good contingency plan. Although, with Glen, who knows. He's certainly done it in the past.

Also, ask Columbus fans if they think Dubinsky and Anisimov are "average." A lot of them consider Dubinsky the future captain. When I say "very good" I'm not just speaking of points on the stat sheet. Dubinsky is a heart and soul guy and Anisimov is a very responsible 2 way center with a lot of offensive upside. We also gave up our 1st, obviously. I don't have an affinity with Grabovski; I'd rather just sign guys for nothing but cap space as opposed to trading 1sts and proven roster players that fit the system for offensive talent. To each his/her own

 

[RGY]

@DarrenDreger: Should learn official salary cap projection for 2014-2015 at Board of Gov's today. Expected to be between $70 and $71 mil.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Somewhat agree, but I think what we would then have to take into consideration with Grabs in NY is that he would then not have Backstrom and AO absorbing most of the opposition's top coverage thus not being able to take advantage of mis matches.

Grabs is not a top line center. He's a guy that can take advantage second line defensive pairings.

I'm not sure I see 65+ point production out of Grabs. Again, just like with Stepan, he's a 50-55 point guy and there's no shame in that.

Absolutely have to take that into consideration. Grabovski is a good power play player though; in the very least if he got top PP minutes production should increase.

Obviously all of this is just speculation, but from watching him play in TOR and now WSH he certainly has an offensive element to his game that would be useful to us. I think that's what this team is lacking more of, in addition to grit on the bottom 2 lines

 

[Raspewtin]

Zuccarello is a good player but his size is an issue. He will a group II with arbitration rights. The Rangers should look into selling high for once. He is 5-7.

One of the only players playing great hockey despite his size and we should trade him?

I don't understand.

 

[nyr2k2]

New thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=75845161