Rumor: Trade Rumor Thread XIII

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You just can't justify giving Callahan 6mil per when Keith, Seabrook, Sharp make less than that on the cap.

Yes, you can. First of all, Sharp is the only one who signed in a remotely comparable situation and he was still a resign. Seabrook was an RFA. Keith was an RFA and also has an extreme back-diving deal. Also, the cap was lower.

As for the rest of the post, you missed the point.
 
It isn't a bad contract for say, 3 years. It is for 5-7.

I don't think any team should give Callahan 6 mil for any longer than 3-4 years.

Agreed, but I also would be surprised if anyone did. If he signs a long term deal, it will probably start at $6m and end at $4m.
 
I agree with this.

But there's no way I see him getting 3 years.

Definitely unlikely. If he really wanted to win a Cup and thought a contender would give that chance, I could see him signing a 3 year deal for the opportunity, but again unlikely. I think players care about financial security much more than winning a Cup.
 
Hypothetically speaking would not making the playoffs for the next 1-2 years be worth making it without question convincingly for the next 5-10?

I'm not even saying that would 100% be the result, but it is more likely to be the outcome than it is in a world where we hand Girardi and Callahan bloated contracts.

There is no guarantee that this what happen. In fact we could end up having dug ourselves a hole that it might take years and years to climb out of.

Now if this were a hockey decision made be the front office, I'd be OK with it. I'm a Ranger fan and will support the team no matter what. There is a certain satisfaction of watching a team rebuild from scratch with young players.

But it is not guaranteed. We've seen plenty of teams draft high year after year, and sometimes decade after decade, without success. Are we willing to take that gamble?

No matter what we think, I don't think it is realistic for us to do us. Last time we did it was before the 04 lockout when at the trade deadline we gutted the whole team and in retrospect, got nothing of long term value in return.

That lockout sort of reset the entire league and we are immediately able to ice some competitive teams with vets like Jagr/Straka/Nylander and the emergence of Hank. But the team we would have iced the lockout year would have been horrific, easily bottom five in the league.

In today's economic climate, I can't see us doing that. Realistically, can anybody?
 
Looks at where San Jose is in the standings. Look at the Rangers. Look at the conference they are in. Look at the Rangers. Look at the division, look at the Rangers.

The Sharks have remained consistently competitive for as long as they guys have been there together. No they haven't won ****, but guess what only one team can win a year. I would rather have a team who you know is making the playoffs every year CONVINCINGLY and not winning the Cup, then a team who MIGHT make the playoffs every year and has almost no shot of winning the Cup.

Also, the Sharks aren't the greatest example for someone to argue with, but they're still in a better place than the Rangers. Only the past two seasons have they struggled a bit. They re signed those played because they feel like they have a good core now and those two players help a.) develop that core, and b.) give them a chance to win a Cup.

Do Callahan and Girardi have the same effect? On the former, yes they are good role models and have experience. On the latter? No. The latter is more important when considering their upcoming contracts.

My point is that many people boil the Rangers recent history down to "No cups? Failure" while they praise other teams who also have no cups. That's an absurd metric. The one you're using, place in standings, how far they get in the playoffs, etc. are real useful metrics. If that's the argument, I can't disagree. But it's not.

Also, very, very few teams would be able to turnover a good bit of the roster along with the coach and playing style and then just rise up to the top of the league immediately. We're in a transition phase, and the Sharks aren't.

To say they might win a cup and the Rangers won't is based on little more than liking the Sharks because they aren't the Rangers. They've done very little to deserve the benefit of the doubt in the post season, much like the Rangers.

I'd completely disagree that G and Callahan don't give the team a chance to win. Of course, that depends on what they'd be replaced with. Being replaced with picks, the team would very obviously have a better chance of winning with them than they would winning with players who aren't even statistically sure things to make the league, let alone become first pairing d-men and second line wingers who do everything.

As for the long term, the idea seems to be to get picks, suck for a while, and hope that those picks pay off. First of all, if we're trading for those picks, our sucking doesn't guarantee that they're good. Secondly, the team can do that without shipping off major assets - they just need to stop buying stupid players at the last second and hold on to their current picks and prospects. Guys will come up and play well. The pipeline is not even close to being as bleak as people present it. Many players have done plenty of encouraging things - Fast and Lindberg have done very well in their past leagues and are still relatively new to the NA hockey. McI seems to be doing very well in the AHL from what I've read from some sources that I trust and that seem to know the Pack well. Duclair is absolutely murdering the league he's in. If he was a first round pick, people would be drooling over him. I don't care where he was picked, so long as he plays well, and he is. The team drafts well considering where they pick. If they can keep stacking up these solid 2/3 line guys and 2/3 pair d-men, they'll build up some very serious depth, which can eventually be combined and traded for a game-breaker if nobody turns into one and the need is there.
 
What is success and what is failure?

Since drafting Crosby, a generational talent, the Pens have won one Cup. Other years they've flamed out spectacularly. Are they a failed franchise who has wasted having an all time great or are they a success for icing high end teams year after year?
 
The fact of the matter is that some of us want the team to be perennial challengers for the cup. Not to be a team that has to scratch and claw it's way into the playoffs. It's one thing to be a favorite that sputters out in the post season, it's quite another to be going into it as a bottom seed with "Anything can happen!" being your mantra.

Onto Callahan, he obviously has a lot of emotional value to this fan base. He's the Captain. He's a tireless worker. He's a fan favorite for good reason. However, he's also a career .56 PPG player who often misses time due to injury, and hasn't really elevated his game in the post season. Nash and Zuccarello have established themselves as the top-two RW's. Callahan has seen his PP time and PK time reduced under AV. Even with the cap going up, it's very hard to justify a $6M cap hit for a complimentary utility player on a team that sorely lacks offensive talent. If the team had several young studs locked up to cap-friendly deals, I could see it making more sense, but it's tough to see it right now. It's a very slippery slope to start paying extra for intangibles and sentiment.
 
The fact of the matter is that some of us want the team to be perennial challengers for the cup. Not to be a team that has to scratch and claw it's way into the playoffs. It's one thing to be a favorite that sputters out in the post season, it's quite another to be going into it as a bottom seed with "Anything can happen!" being your mantra.

Onto Callahan, he obviously has a lot of emotional value to this fan base. He's the Captain. He's a tireless worker. He's a fan favorite for good reason. However, he's also a career .56 PPG player who often misses time due to injury, and hasn't really elevated his game in the post season. Nash and Zuccarello have established themselves as the top-two RW's. Callahan has seen his PP time and PK time reduced under AV. Even with the cap going up, it's very hard to justify a $6M cap hit for a complimentary utility player on a team that sorely lacks offensive talent. If the team had several young studs locked up to cap-friendly deals, I could see it making more sense, but it's tough to see it right now. It's a very slippery slope to start paying extra for intangibles and sentiment.

This. Not to mention he is probably the Rangers best asset in a trade at this point.
 
I think the only conditions that we move Girardi and Callahan is if we find ourselves struggling for that 6-8 seed (again) and someone blows us away with a great offer and/or respective agents make it clear that we're not in the ballpark for a resign.

That being said, there are value pieces that we could move that depending on the market and return may not hurt us too much this year and be beneficial for the future, some of those players include Boyle, Stralman, Pouliot, Brassard, and Dorsett among a few others. I like those players but bidness is bidness.

And depending where we finish, wouldn't mind seeing Staal moved to the Canes maybe in the offseason. Maybe Staal plus mid-value pieces can get us Faulk or Skinner.

Anyone see Boyle's ad in Craigslist for a roommate?
 
I think the only conditions that we move Girardi and Callahan is if we find ourselves struggling for that 6-8 seed (again) and someone blows us away with a great offer and/or respective agents make it clear that we're not in the ballpark for a resign.

That being said, there are value pieces that we could move that depending on the market and return may not hurt us too much this year and be beneficial for the future, some of those players include Boyle, Stralman, Pouliot, Brassard, and Dorsett among a few others. I like those players but bidness is bidness.

And depending where we finish, wouldn't mind seeing Staal moved to the Canes maybe in the offseason. Maybe Staal plus mid-value pieces can get us Faulk or Skinner.

Anyone see Boyle's ad in Craigslist for a roommate?

Link?
 
You'd have to be a complete homer if you think he's been performing anything more than that this season. Zuccarello and Nash are far superior players.

Love MZA but "far superior"? No.



Yeah but Lundqvist hasn't won jack ****, going by what you've said about Thornton. He has a resume of one Vezina and one Olympic Gold. That's not better than Thornton's gold, Art Ross, Hart.

What have I said about Thornton? That he sucks? That he's not a 1C player? That he's not supremely talented? Nope, nope and nope.

Some of you are turning my Olympic sentence about Callahan into a Ryan VS Joe debate which is ENTIRELY MISSING THE POINT. My point was Callahan isn't some schlub that's expendable.

Callahan has made his 2nd Olympic team - he's not "average", he's not "mediocre", he's not "can't hold XYZ's jockstrap". Give credit where credit is due - the guy is a two time Olympian because he ISN'T those things. And if you want to bury your head in the sand about Thornton and what followed him around for years (awful in the playoffs and his team's underachieving) then you haven't been following San Jose for very long. Has he done better in the past few years? Absolutely and he's an excellent player. And if had to choose one or the other, it wouldn't take very long. That doesn't mean that Callahan should be traded for a late 1st round pick and a B prospect. He shouldn't be. That's the point.

And do you want to do comparative rosters of who Lundqvist has had in front of him and the teams that San Jose has had since the lockout and who has really underachieved and not won when they were "supposed to"? Sorry, comparing Lundqvist to Thornton is completely apples and oranges and if either franchise has achieved less when more was expected it's San Jose in a landslide with their generational 1C. You can like that or not. It's the truth.
 
Could see the team trading Brassard for Chris Stewart at the draft in order to try and entice Stastny to sign with us. They're close friends and Stewart had his best season ever playing with Stastny.
 
Could see the team trading Brassard for Chris Stewart at the draft in order to try and entice Stastny to sign with us. They're close friends and Stewart had his best season ever playing with Stastny.

I am terrified of the contract Stastny is going to get.
 
Could see the team trading Brassard for Chris Stewart at the draft in order to try and entice Stastny to sign with us. They're close friends and Stewart had his best season ever playing with Stastny.

I would actually really like that.

Kreider Stepan Nash
Stewart Stastny Zuccarello
Hagelin Miller Callahan
Boyle Moore Dorsett
 
I would actually really like that.

Kreider Stepan Nash
Stewart Stastny Zuccarello
Hagelin Miller Callahan
Boyle Moore Dorsett

I like that as well and find it a much more imposing lineup than what we currently ice. Age is obviously a factor and Stepan has time to evolve but Stastny would arguably be our best center and Stewart, along with scoring goals, brings serious size, physicality and net front presence. Stewart would be a welcome addition to our forward lines. Even if Callahan was sold (and assuming the return was unae to step into our top nine) Fast would not be the WORST option on that third line wing. And of course, that's ignoring the annual cheap Pouliot-esque signing.
 
Stewart would be a major reclamation project. He's looked downright awful recently in St. Louis. I think he played 6 minutes in their game today. $4.1M for one more season. I do think he'd be a better fit in this system though.

I also don't think it would be financially feasible -- at least without being ridiculously close to the cap or skimping on D -- to bring in both of those players while giving Callahan the ~$6M deal he likely wants.
 
Stewart would be a major reclamation project. He's looked downright awful recently in St. Louis. I think he played 6 minutes in their game today. $4.1M for one more season. I do think he'd be a better fit in this system though.

I don't think there's a better definition of streaky in the NHL than Chris Stewart.

So big and athletically gifted, he should be a 30-30 guy every year.
 
Buying out Richards and then signing Stastny would be a huge upgrade. How realistic is that, though? There's going to be a huge bidding war for Stastny. He seems exactly like the kind of player the Rangers need.
 
I would actually really like that.

Kreider Stepan Nash
Stewart Stastny Zuccarello
Hagelin Miller Callahan
Boyle Moore Dorsett

Yeah, not bad. I haven't run the capgeek numbers but worse to worse we may have to swap out Boyle for a cheaper alternative or have him play center and get a min. salary guy on the 4th line. Carcillo factor as the 13th? Still leaves us Lindberg, Fast, Kristo, and Hrivik call ups too.

I'd love to package Staal with Fast or someone and a pick to pry Faulk from Carolina. Resign Dan G at 5.5 max, Stralman at 3 max if possible and you have:

MCD - Girardi
Faulk - Stralman
Allen-Klein
Moore
 
Yeah, not bad. I haven't run the capgeek numbers but worse to worse we may have to swap out Boyle for a cheaper alternative or have him play center and get a min. salary guy on the 4th line. Carcillo factor as the 13th? Still leaves us Lindberg, Fast, Kristo, and Hrivik call ups too.

I'd love to package Staal with Fast or someone and a pick to pry Faulk from Carolina. Resign Dan G at 5.5 max, Stralman at 3 max if possible and you have:

MCD - Girardi
Faulk - Stralman
Allen-Klein
Moore

Not even close to "prying" Faulk out of Carolina. Faulk is a notch under McD, for certain, but imagine what it would take to get McD from us. That's what it would take to get Faulk.
 
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